General/Other - Mileena The Mileena General Discussion Thread (All Variations)

[ZeroEffect]

I'll stop being so verbose, but please... someone... tell me why she's going to be good?

The best thing she has going for her right now, if you didn't know, is her oki game off hard-knockdowns. (21,U4, sweep, Piercing B2,1,2+4, etc). Basically if you know the situations where you get one of these knockdowns, you have a very low risk pressure with F1,2,B4 string. Hits twice to stuff most armor wakeups, and lasts long enough to force a block, even if they delay wakeup.

If they wakeup backdash, you whiff, but you aren't unsafe. If you read the backdash, you can chase with B12 in Piercing or possibly F23 in other variations. It's actually a legit strategy. There are threads on it already with vids that can explain better than I did.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Wong apparently knows how to block Mileena, and that he doesn't have to show her any respect once she gets put into block stun, and it ends badly

About the vid. One, this seems like pre-patch. (Telekick looked negative.) And two, I'm sure Handy is a decent player, but just didn't have a grasp on the recent tech at this point.

Also, he was forcing way more rolls than necessary. More delayed wakeup could've helped him. More string pressure after hitting D3s. More Low Sai checks at mid range instead of rolls. He also wasn't adapting to Justin's habit of jumping after a blocked 123. Basically this could've went a lot better for him. This vid was more on the player, imo.

 

[qspec]

The best thing she has going for her right now, if you didn't know, is her oki game off hard-knockdowns. (21,U4, sweep, Piercing B2,1,2+4, etc). Basically if you know the situations where you get one of these knockdowns, you have a very low risk pressure with F1,2,B4 string. Hits twice to stuff most armor wakeups, and lasts long enough to force a block, even if they delay wakeup.

If they wakeup backdash, you whiff, but you aren't unsafe. If you read the backdash, you can chase with B12 in Piercing or possibly F23 in other variations. It's actually a legit strategy. There are threads on it already with vids that can explain better than I did.

Yeah I actually saw the video, and it does seem pretty alright. That said, I have a few bits of concern, but I'm away from my computer until Monday. I'll address that more directly in the thread if I find anything.

 

[Endding]

I'll stop being so verbose, but please... someone... tell me why she's going to be good?

NRS will buff her to goddess status

But in all seriousness, I'll attempt to go through her positives:

1. Her mind games, she has always had them in previous MKs and they are still here
2. Her Mix Up game is solid, meter helps with this in all variations but I found some nice additions without in Ravenous
3. Her Sais are a strong projectile, even without piercings low can be used effectively
4. Some great full screen punishes with her tele kick, meter for most effective
5. Mileena is limited on her string viability but that can be used as an advantage. Train your opponent to block strings like 21 then throw in U4, EX Roll or in Ravenous low pounce
6. EX Roll, requires meter but I think it's one hell of a move for offence and defence

Mileena is a very strong live by the sword, die by the sword type of character. That can be seen as a positive or negative, as some cast members can execute this play style safely. She requires you to be on point with all aspects of your game, which can be frustrating at times I'll admit that but the reward is certainly there if you can apply it.

To be honest, it all comes down to perspective. Some people will love her high risk high reward and some will not, I'll admit I am biased due to my love for this character which date back to the old MK:II days but I can see her flaws. I just try and make the best out of them, and continue to up my game.

Also for those asking for Sonic Fox footage I referred to earlier, here is a 40minute set

 

[TheGabStandard]

@ZeroEffect

Yeah I read that. I wasn't sure where it left us. Minus but safe? Positive? Whatever. That is a solid change. Sadly I'm on PC and still waiting, waiting, waiting.

telekick on hit is quite plus (+28 according to Mr. Mileena). So as @ZeroEffect said you can combo a delayed air sai or xray. In addition if you have meter you can take one step and that puts you in 50/50 territory for EX Roll or f4

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yeah I actually saw the video, and it does seem pretty alright. That said, I have a few bits of concern, but I'm away from my computer until Monday. I'll address that more directly in the thread if I find anything.

If anything, that video gives me more hope for Mileena than less. There were a lot of missed opportunities for punishes as well as a lack of attacking variety (not saying that I would've done better, just pointing out what I saw.)

 

[JDE]

Honestly it would be awesome if her F3 got decreased start up frames from 32 to 20-25 or sum and the third hit in her F3, 4, 3 string hit overhead.

Also the reason I think they gave Mileena mediocre range and many bad frames across the board on start-up and block advantage is because of how many options she actually has. Just think, what other characters have 2-3 projectiles(air,ground,low), a teleport that also doubles as a divekick, an advancing low profile move that also is a launcher, several anti airs, armored overhead x-ray that can be easily comboed into 50%, good air to air, armored wake-up move, 2 reliable armor breaking moves, consistent 25-40% meterless damage, command grabs, extra teles, 50/50 game (even though its unsafe and unreliable). I think her having so many options actually cripples her because they feel they have to balance out the amount of options she has by making most of those options mediocre or bad.

25 is still pretty slow though. Scorpion's original overhead, F4 is 24 frames & he gets stuffed for using it if he's not careful. Kitana is 24 frames & it gets stuffed as well, but not a lot of Kitana uses it, not from what I've seen. Only seen Kitana Prime use it as an ender. Even if it is 25 frames faster, it still could be interrupted.

Also, Fox said on his stream that he was going to play her more now since her patch buffs. So it'll be interesting to see how he uses her. I like his style of Ravenous.

I wish that she had a string with a low starter. Lick a low kick into a mid or a high. Something like that. Something to make people respect her lows even more. She has some lows, but they're risky.

 

[TakeAChance]

As far as the frame talk goes...I think some of you are looking at the numbers a little to literally.

Take for instance b12 in piercing. TONS of characters can't do shit about b12 into b12 due to the range and pushback. You can use it ALL day and force a reaction out of them. A lot of people like to jump after a couple reps which you get to get a full combo out of.

There are certain things where frames do play a huge part, but some of her strings have great pushback and are awesome in the neutral. I agree she has issues when people are right on top of her, but she also has an 8f reversable roll launcher to punish ANYONE who pushes buttons too liberally against her.

The more I have been playing her, the more my meta has improved with her. Even doing things like buffering in a ball roll on an opponents Jump In Punch to option select their strings (if they delay for a throw or try to poke they get rolled) has greatly improved her defensive ability.

Mileenas momentum is EXTREMELY important. Any time you knock someone down you need to be right on top of them. She has a f4 unreactable low, and an unreactable (when right next the opponent) ex overhead roll. Knockdowns should be terrifying for opponents. Not only that, but her string animations are nice and slow which make them hella hit confirmable. For instance, I love check people with b12 or F124 on knockdown and just watch how they block. If I see them instinctively start to duck after my strings, guess whats coming? If I see them standing after them to bait the roll, I toss out a sai. On hit we are back at neutral, and usually at the mercy of my b12 again.

 

[JDE]

Around 03:02:33, Pig of the Hut places her at #13 on his tier list. Listen to more reasons here

http://www.twitch.tv/eg_jwong/v/5343529

Top 5: Raiden, Quan chi, Sonya, D'Vorah, Scorpion

6 Through 10: Jax, Cassie, Erron Black, Kung Jin, Sub Zero

The Rest: Ermac (11), Ferra Tor (12), Mileena (13), Kung Lao (14)*, Shinnok (15), Jacquie, Reptile, Kano, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang*,
Goro*, Takeda, Kotal Khan, Kitana, Kenshi

 

[qspec]

Around 03:02:33, Pig of the Hut places her at #13 on his tier list. Listen to more reasons here

http://www.twitch.tv/eg_jwong/v/5343529

Top 5: Raiden, Quan chi, Sonya, D'Vorah, Scorpion

6 Through 10: Jax, Cassie, Erron Black, Kung Jin, Sub Zero

The Rest: Ermac (11), Ferra Tor (12), Mileena (13), Kung Lao (14)*, Shinnok (15), Jacquie, Reptile, Kano, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang*,
Goro*, Takeda, Kotal Khan, Kitana, Kenshi

He mentions the OS as the reason he has Mileena high which is one of my major concerns regarding her balance and her oki. It could be wishful thinking, but I don't see them sticking around for to terribly long. That's only speculation, and for all I know they've already been confirmed as staying (though I don't think so), but they seem so clearly to be a fixable bug, that I think they are disappearing.

If anything, that video gives me more hope for Mileena than less. There were a lot of missed opportunities for punishes as well as a lack of attacking variety (not saying that I would've done better, just pointing out what I saw.)

There definitely was a lot of missed opportunities. The reason I think it stands is because Wong missed a lot of opportunities too and played far from perfectly himself. But in either case, it does a great job of showing what happens when Mileena gets put into block stun. She doesn't get to touch a button unless you're taking a massive risk mashing out ex/roll.

 

[Method]

I feel the vid does a better job showing what's wrong with Raiden more so than Mileena's issues (which she has, not arguing). There was a Raiden block infinite thread that has since been removed. He's still over-the-top good.

 

[BeastOfManila]

Are there bad matchups for scorpion that can be handled by piercing mileena? Just curious...

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

25 is still pretty slow though. Scorpion's original overhead, F4 is 24 frames & he gets stuffed for using it if he's not careful. Kitana is 24 frames & it gets stuffed as well, but not a lot of Kitana uses it, not from what I've seen. Only seen Kitana Prime use it as an ender. Even if it is 25 frames faster, it still could be interrupted.

Also, Fox said on his stream that he was going to play her more now since her patch buffs. So it'll be interesting to see how he uses her. I like his style of Ravenous.

I wish that she had a string with a low starter. Lick a low kick into a mid or a high. Something like that. Something to make people respect her lows even more. She has some lows, but they're risky.

Yeah 25 frames would still be slow but I was thinking in the context of the third hit of F3,4,3 being an overhead which I just suggested for as a wish list type of thing since she would have to still put up with most of her strings/normals having bad frames. A mix-up within of mix-up. Have to guess one of her lows or the new F3 and if you block the F3 you have to guess again for F3,4,3 or F3,4,4.

Realistically though if she were to get an overhead F3 should be like 20 frames which I feel is fair/average. Nothing too ridiculous or good for her mix-up game because I rather have her improved in other areas to help supplement her true play style of spacing and punishing. If she was going to have a low starter it should be F2, just looks like a low starter.

Honestly though, I would actually prefer it if they shy away from trying to give Mileena a strong 50/50 and just make her all about spacing and punishing. Improve frames of her specials, movement, and strings. Sais should have less recovery and be better on block (maybe -5/neutral so it can be a legit blockstring). It wouldn't hurt if Telekick was a little faster or had better tracking. Her backdash should be faster. Maybe Have it so some of her normals/strings get 3 frames cut from start-up. So all those 10-12 frame normals are decent punsihing tools at like 7-9 frames. Or instead of making them faster, improve their hitboxes. I don't want Mileena to be like everyone else and being about 50/50s all day. I mean it's the easier route to just give her a good overhead and close the case on her but I feel she should play different and have these little things changed about her so she can be a good zoning, spacing, and punishing character. However, how she is right now with taking great risks and relying on punishable tools is ok because I feel certain strings like B1,2 and 2,1,U4, her roll/EX roll, and projectiles are what keeps her good and tricky. But it's not far fetched to say she has room for improvement.

 

[JDE]

*Sigh*..... Playing online with this bitch is a nightmare. Trying to complete juggles for muscle memory & some of her mixups. It's fucking annoying. I mean I'm getting good practice against players, but it's just frustrating that you're having to go back to training mode just to keep your mind fresh on the actual damage that you should be getting.

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

*Sigh*..... Playing online with this bitch is a nightmare. Trying to complete juggles for muscle memory & some of her mixups. It's fucking annoying. I mean I'm getting good practice against players, but it's just frustrating that you're having to go back to training mode just to keep your mind fresh on the actual damage that you should be getting.

Yeah I get what you mean. On the occasion that I do hit her F3 and go into her F3,4,3 string and forget to run cancel into F2, 3 roll after the air sai, I always mentally slap myself. I mean I know it's just like 4% more but I always think that that could be the 4% to win the match.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Top 5: Raiden, Quan chi, Sonya, D'Vorah, Scorpion

6 Through 10: Jax, Cassie, Erron Black, Kung Jin, Sub Zero

The Rest: Ermac (11), Ferra Tor (12), Mileena (13), Kung Lao (14)*, Shinnok (15), Jacquie, Reptile, Kano, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang*,
Goro*, Takeda, Kotal Khan, Kitana, Kenshi

I can't wrap my mind around Mileena being better than Full-Auto Jacqui.
But it's an interesting perspective I guess. Not that tier position has too much weight at the moment.

 

[Endding]

*Sigh*..... Playing online with this bitch is a nightmare. Trying to complete juggles for muscle memory & some of her mixups. It's fucking annoying. I mean I'm getting good practice against players, but it's just frustrating that you're having to go back to training mode just to keep your mind fresh on the actual damage that you should be getting.

Back in the first week I once played a mate of mine who had an insane Cassie went like 200-40 over around a 3 day period. Everytime I hit a roll or attempted to start a combo I'd forget what I was doing. I learned that week.

I honestly love her F3, I've already stated it somewhere but I think it's cute af.

Saltface had an interesting Mileena if any of you guys saw, liked the way he was constantly keeping the pressure on.

 

[JDE]

I can't wrap my mind around Mileena being better than Full-Auto Jacqui.
But it's an interesting perspective I guess. Not that tier position has too much weight at the moment.

I haven't seen much of Jacqui. Full Auto is the only variation that most of them either use or talk about. No others. I'm sure it'll change here soon.

@Endding which variation?

@llxPeeKABooxll I use F3 when they're looking for my low sai or a mixup of some sort in range or to hop over a poke. As far as getting my damage online, I use juggles that will get me 28% or more. Then go & work on what I should use offline.

Like 123 xxrollxx > njp2 > b21, 2+4 will get me 31% with the others getting me to 30.

 

[Endding]

@Endding which variation?

Honestly I went through all of them, as did he.

I went Rav>Eth>Pierc

I was currently working on Rav, so I started using that but I just kept being overwhelmed, so I whipped out Ethereal to attempt to play a lame keep away which did better than Ravenous but I wasn't outputting enough damage which led me to Piercing. With the help of B12 and low sai, I started to understand the MU a lot better, now I can use Rav and still hold my own pretty well. Good thing looking back on it, but the first few weeks where hell for me haha.

My mate was so advanced because he had time off, that he had Dvorah as a side so I copped her aswell as Cassie so my Mileena was moulded through fire and I honestly believe that has led me to where I am today. Definitely not an easy road, but one I'd take again.

 

[JDE]

Honestly I went through all of them, as did he.

I went Rav>Eth>Pierc

I was currently working on Rav, so I started using that but I just kept being overwhelmed, so I whipped out Ethereal to attempt to play a lame keep away which did better than Ravenous but I wasn't outputting enough damage which led me to Piercing. With the help of B12 and low sai, I started to understand the MU a lot better, now I can use Rav and still hold my own pretty well. Good thing looking back on it, but the first few weeks where hell for me haha.

My mate was so advanced because he had time off, that he had Dvorah as a side so I copped her aswell as Cassie so my Mileena was moulded through fire and I honestly believe that has led me to where I am today. Definitely not an easy road, but one I'd take again.

What about Saltface?

 

[Endding]

What about Saltface?

Raaaaavvv

He was facing a Kotal, so he was doing F23~roll for continuous pressure.

Also SonicFox is playing Mileena at the MKX Auction tournament.

 

[TheGabStandard]

*Sigh*..... Playing online with this bitch is a nightmare. Trying to complete juggles for muscle memory & some of her mixups. It's fucking annoying. I mean I'm getting good practice against players, but it's just frustrating that you're having to go back to training mode just to keep your mind fresh on the actual damage that you should be getting.

I second that, online is super frustrating. What's probably worse is that I refuse to change my play for online. So even in lag I will go for the tight punishes and max damage combos as I don't want to adopt a second style just to compete online when I know my offline tactics work.

 

[Sami]

Useless tech of the day: due to a bug with either Mileena's or Kung Lao's hitboxes, Kung Lao's Spin in Hat Trick (didn't test any of the others) will sometimes wiff when used as a reversal against Mileena's F344 - Mileena just rolls back and stands up without taking the hit. Stances don't seem to matter and it has both hit and wiffed when F344 was done at point blank range.

 

[JDE]

You know, to be completely honest, as a Mileena player, I feel like I have no real reason to complain about an overhead. I have an Ex Roll for an overhead. It's something. As a Kitana player, I have no overhead. Yes, her overhead normal is there at 25 frames, but no one is going to get hit by it when they figure her out. Her best overhead is an X-Ray. Yes, an X-Ray, something else that I have as Mileena. Now, am I saying that we don't need one? No, I'm just saying that Kitana is worse off than Mileena in terms of a true overhead.

I play them both. I've been comparing them both. Her strongest variation is Royal Storm, Mournful & then Assassin (considered the weakest right now).

My point is before we go to bringing up things that we need, we have to look at the entire cast to see what they also have & then think of what would balance the characters out. We can't just ask for something when there are other characters who have it worse in certain areas. So sometimes we have to be thankful with what we have opposed to what we don't. Anyways, meter is important to have in this game. Not just one character, all of them. It's extremely important, before you bring up meter. Armored attacks are as well.

 

[Wowbiggulps]

Thread keeps coming back to 'Mileena is bad' which is beyond me quite frankly.

In the wise words of Mr Mileena "She's a viable character, that will just have to work a little harder to keep up with the top tier characters"

Mr. Mileena also said on his stream yesterday that she is bottom 5