General/Other - Leatherface The Leatherface wanted buffs thread

[SHAOLIN]

Yeah tried to think of the reasoning behind it, no idea why they did that. Doesn't guarantee anything so your opponent can easily just armour after.

Lol if my opponent knew that this was neutral on hit they wouldn't give two shit or a fuck if they blocked or got hit by it, since they'll basically be at an advantage.

Hell they probably wouldn't even need to use ex moves, just the regular after getting hit by this.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

He doesn't suck. BS1 has pushback anyway so it's not -8, only Reptile can punish it on block. If it was Plus 2, he would be stupidly good because you can just do d3 into bs1 over and over lol.


In all seriousness, what would a 2f increase do anyway. The speed is fine, because of it's massive range. Like @CrazyFingers said, if you want 50/50's, just play Butcher.

I find it easy to open people up, maybe it's because I play Blood God. If you want to open them up you need to stagger and throw a lot more.

Pre-XL non-Cutthroat Kano players knew the struggle.
Kitana players have it harder.
D3 into bs1 catches so many people, and that's 40% gone.

As for the mid, tbh I have no clue. I've coped this far well without it but I'm not going to be upset if we do get one.

you wouldn't be able to do d3 into bs1 over and over. Leatherface is awful.

I can go all day. Not sure why you are trying to pick a fight against me, it's not going to work, champ.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

You wanted the thread. I'm giving you my answer. Now you have to hold that.

 

[Indecisive]

Some more buffs i would like cause reasons.
*Faster walk speed. Pls. I want to play nuetral
*A use for EX db4. The restand. It does nothing now. Maybe make it projectile immune for a bar so you can walk forward and eat them. Some EX moves absorb projectiles so i mean
*Tick throws in Butcher. Pls. Like pretty pls.
Just some ideas on the way home today

 

[TommyKing5]

you wouldn't be able to do d3 into bs1 over and over. Leatherface is awful.

I can go all day. Not sure why you are trying to pick a fight against me, it's not going to work, champ.

I'm not trying to fight you. I'm just trying to tell you Leatherface isn't as awful as you think.

He just doesn't need as much much of a buff as you're suggesting as that'll put him in the spotlight for even more nerfs, and I certainly don't want that, then he'll be 'terrible' as you put it.

Some more buffs i would like cause reasons.
*Faster walk speed. Pls. I want to play nuetral
*A use for EX db4. The restand. It does nothing now. Maybe make it projectile immune for a bar so you can walk forward and eat them. Some EX moves absorb projectiles so i mean
*Tick throws in Butcher. Pls. Like pretty pls.
Just some ideas on the way home today

I can agree with these. His walk speed is terrible, but his run speed is godlike so I don't know if that makes up for it or not.

If ex bd4 did eat multiple projectiles that would be amazing for Butcher and Killer, as it will give him a safe way in when getting zoned, I think it's fair, as you spend a bar.

As for the tick throws, Butcher despretely needs them. I think he has the worst tick throws in the game. They are pretty much non-existent. I think it'll be fair, as the command grab only does 10% meterless and moves your opponent far away.

 

[Kokoko]

Here is my list of dreams. I believe it's too much, but... Just throw some ideas. Some of these changes would be perfect:

- F1 connects on crouch blocking characters;
- F1 - 5 active frames (4f now);
- S3 does combo on hit on crouching opponents;
- S3 slightly advances LF forward;
- D4 - 16f recovery (21f now), -11f on block (-16f now), +9f on hit (+6f now);
- F44 - new string (mid, low), -7f on block with solid pushback, HKD on hit;
- BF3 EX - 12f start-up (19f now), takes 9% (10% now);

Killer:
- BS2 takes 11% (9% now);
- BS2 MB - slightly less pushback on hit, takes 18% (21% now);

Pretty Lady:
- F12~DB2 EX connects on everyone;
- Can perform combo in the corner after BF2 EX (like Kotal);
- BF2 EX +4f on block (-2f now), takes 2,50% on block (1.75% now);

Butcher:
- B1U2 doesn't scale damage so badly (+2% for average combo);
- DF4 EX - 13f start-up (17f now), -12f on block (-10f now), takes 17% (20% now);
- More tick throws with his command grab;

 

[TommyKing5]

F44 - new string (mid, low), -7f on block with solid pushback, HKD on hit;

Now this is an idea that no-one mentioned at all, and I really like it. If I remember correctly, Leatherface is the only character in the entire game that doesn't have any strings involving 3 & 4 (kicks). I think this'll benefit him tremendously. I assume you wouldn't want f4 sped up at all so I think it'll be balanced. F4 for the re-stand and f4,4 for a hard knock down into Oki, which could potentially set up for unblockables or the slower overheads in Pretty Lady and Killer. I don't think this would imbalance him in any way whatsoever.

B1U2 doesn't scale damage so badly (+2% for average combo)

I can't remember the last time I ever used b1u2. To me, it's pointless and actually gets less damage than 1,2,2. Completely agree with this change.

More tick throws with his command grab

This. Butcher Leatherface has the least number of tick throws in the game (with only d4 and maybe his jump kicks?). If he was given just a few more I don't think it'll imbalance him in anyway, as the grab only does 10% raw and pushes the opponent far away so further pressure isn't guaranteed. The EX version however is 20% and is a hard knock down into oki. Completely fair considering the amount of dirt other characters have.

Everything else I agree with 110%. Couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully NRS' balancing team read this and take notes. If he gets any of these changes, I think it'll give Leatherface enough to compete comfortably against everyone in the cast.

 

[TommyKing5]

Anyone think that Butcher's ex db3 shouldn't be -15 on hit? Would it benefit him much if it was changed?

 

[CrazyFingers]

Anyone think that Butcher's ex db3 shouldn't be -15 on hit? Would it benefit him much if it was changed?

it's his most damaging combo ender he's got so i really don't know. It feels kind of right to trade off damage for plus frames but -15 seems a bit much, especially since you need to spend a bar.

 

[TommyKing5]

it's his most damaging combo ender he's got so i really don't know. It feels kind of right to trade off damage for plus frames but -15 seems a bit much, especially since you need to spend a bar.

Yeah, the normal version is + on hit, it's just the ex version. It sort of makes sense because it does do 21% raw, but it knocks them far away, that's not a good thing with Butcher as you need to be in their face. Doubt it'll be changed, and it's not really vital, but it wouldn't hurt either way.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Yeah, the normal version is + on hit, it's just the ex version. It sort of makes sense because it does do 21% raw, but it knocks them far away, that's not a good thing with Butcher as you need to be in their face. Doubt it'll be changed, and it's not really vital, but it wouldn't hurt either way.

Speaking of putting your opponent far away, the command grab not pushing the opponent near full screen would be nice.

 

[TommyKing5]

Speaking of putting your opponent far away, the command grab not pushing the opponent near full screen would be nice.

Yeah, I really don't think theres a use for the normal command grab. Even in the corner I hardly ever use it. Ex one is great as a reversal most times, but it whiffs all the other times.

 

[snort]

I've been playing a lot of Killer lately and I think he's pretty good but needs just a few small tweaks. For starters BS2 on hit shouldn't be -1 rather it should be +1 or 0. Secondly, the push back on EX BS2 on hit is pretty ridiculous, needs to be decrease. These two are the main changes IMO.

Then you have stuff like Psycho Kutter and Psycho Slasher having the same exact negative frames on block which is -24, Why? If were spending a bar at least decrease negative frames on block. We get the armor but so what, its not a launching move that leads in to a full combo. Then you have low Grinder having the same frame data as Low Saw too. Reduce Low Grinder to -2 or -3 and Psycho Slasher to -9 or -10.

 

[CrazyFingers]

So while writing my guide on Butcher, I've noticed what I really think the character needs so here it is!

Universal
-S3 Whiffing issues across the board fixed.
-S3's damage increased to 7%.
-Combo scaling on S3 reduced.
-F3's damage increased to 5%.
-Combo Scaling on F3 reduced.

Butcher
-B1's startup reduced to 11f, down from 15f.
-Combo scaling on B1U2 reduced SIGNIFICANTLY.
-B1U2 is now -9 on block, down from -16.
-Command grab reverted back to 6f.
-F1 Now tick throws.
-F2's startup reduced to 14f, down from 19f.
-Command grab puts the opponent closer to you.
-Command grab is now +8, up from +5.
-Mallet Strike (DF2) and Mallet Slam (DF2+BLK) Startup frames reduced to 19f, down from 25f and remove gap in F12 xx DF2
-Mallet Slam (DF2+BLK) is now -10 on block, down from -15 on block and adds a little bit of push back to it.

So here's my thought process behind my list. First, S3 whiffing is something that needs to be fixed, end of story. Next, S3 and F3, in case you guys haven't notice, aren't very good. S3 does "meh" damage and has way more scaling than it should have, making combos involving your only mid be...not great. Same with F3, only even more so. Now as for the Butcher specifics, B1 is clearly supposed to be our "go to" mid but the only problem being IT IS ONE OF THE WORST MIDS IN THE GAME. It leads to PITIFUL amounts of damage and is super unsafe in the form of B1U2 which is -16. Therefor, lets make the mid useable eh? Secondly, the command grab being 8 frames right now, kind of feels bad. The whole point of the damn thing was to be EXTREMELY fast. And while 8 frames is quite fast, the command grab didn't need a nerf really. F1 tick throwing! Ok this one is a bit of a greedy one by me but I feel like it would help immensely. Butcher uses staggers and sometimes 50/50's to open up the opponent. You add a tick throw to F1, it becomes EXTREMELY deadly and would help him with his pressure in a very good way. Another way to help his pressure is for his restand to NOT send them full screen. A character with a terrible time dealing with zoning you'd think his command grab wouldn't be something that would put him at a disadvantage, increasing the plus frames of it would also be helpful in keeping up the pressure but the command grab putting the opponent closer is more important than that. Increasing the speed of DF2 and removing that gap, which im pretty sure increasing the speed does that if I'm thinking frames work the way they do, would A: Make Butcher have a safe unabusable way to build meter and
B: Butcher could use his wealth of + frames (unabusable meaning the opponent can't abuse the gap). Lastly, reducing how punishable Mallet Slam is (by removing negative frames and adding push back) encourages its use a lot more. This can be a very good tool for closing the gap but it also can be baited SUPER hard and every time it will get punished. Let me know what you guys think of this list. Too good? Just right?

 

[TommyKing5]

So while writing my guide on Butcher, I've noticed what I really think the character needs so here it is!

Universal
-S3 Whiffing issues across the board fixed.
-S3's damage increased to 7%.
-Combo scaling on S3 reduced.
-F3's damage increased to 5%.
-Combo Scaling on F3 reduced.

Butcher
-B1's startup reduced to 11f, down from 15f.
-Combo scaling on B1U2 reduced SIGNIFICANTLY.
-B1U2 is now -9 on block, down from -16.
-Command grab reverted back to 6f.
-F1 Now tick throws.
-F2's startup reduced to 14f, down from 19f.
-Command grab puts the opponent closer to you.
-Command grab is now +8, up from +5.
-Mallet Strike (DF2) and Mallet Slam (DF2+BLK) Startup frames reduced to 19f, down from 25f and remove gap in F12 xx DF2
-Mallet Slam (DF2+BLK) is now -10 on block, down from -15 on block and adds a little bit of push back to it.

So here's my thought process behind my list. First, S3 whiffing is something that needs to be fixed, end of story. Next, S3 and F3, in case you guys haven't notice, aren't very good. S3 does "meh" damage and has way more scaling than it should have, making combos involving your only mid be...not great. Same with F3, only even more so. Now as for the Butcher specifics, B1 is clearly supposed to be our "go to" mid but the only problem being IT IS ONE OF THE WORST MIDS IN THE GAME. It leads to PITIFUL amounts of damage and is super unsafe in the form of B1U2 which is -16. Therefor, lets make the mid useable eh? Secondly, the command grab being 8 frames right now, kind of feels bad. The whole point of the damn thing was to be EXTREMELY fast. And while 8 frames is quite fast, the command grab didn't need a nerf really. F1 tick throwing! Ok this one is a bit of a greedy one by me but I feel like it would help immensely. Butcher uses staggers and sometimes 50/50's to open up the opponent. You add a tick throw to F1, it becomes EXTREMELY deadly and would help him with his pressure in a very good way. Another way to help his pressure is for his restand to NOT send them full screen. A character with a terrible time dealing with zoning you'd think his command grab wouldn't be something that would put him at a disadvantage, increasing the plus frames of it would also be helpful in keeping up the pressure but the command grab putting the opponent closer is more important than that. Increasing the speed of DF2 and removing that gap, which im pretty sure increasing the speed does that if I'm thinking frames work the way they do, would A: Make Butcher have a safe unabusable way to build meter and
B: Butcher could use his wealth of + frames (unabusable meaning the opponent can't abuse the gap). Lastly, reducing how punishable Mallet Slam is (by removing negative frames and adding push back) encourages its use a lot more. This can be a very good tool for closing the gap but it also can be baited SUPER hard and every time it will get punished. Let me know what you guys think of this list. Too good? Just right?

Spot on. Couldn't of put it better myself. I don't know why I didn't get a notification for this post, as I would have replied sooner but it doesn't matter now.

The command grab needs to keep the opponent close. If you look at the animation of the ex command grab and how it leaves them literally right next to you, that's how it needs to be.

Can't think of anything I disagree with from this list. Great suggestions

 

[CrazyFingers]

Other things I'd like that would just be luxury buffs would be less negative frames on block for D4, + frames on D4 increased from +6 to something like +8, maybe 10? Other than that tho, the character should be fine after patch.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Spot on. Couldn't of put it better myself. I don't know why I didn't get a notification for this post, as I would have replied sooner but it doesn't matter now.

The command grab needs to keep the opponent close. If you look at the animation of the ex command grab and how it leaves them literally right next to you, that's how it needs to be.

Can't think of anything I disagree with from this list. Great suggestions

Thanks! Butcher truly does need the most help out of the three so I hope while they don't break him, they do something close to what I have listed here.

 

[Sultani]

Buff List - Delet him and add an MK character.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Buff List - Delet him and add an MK character.

Pretty rood m8.

 

[Deadpool2020]

Make EX BF3 safe on block.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Make EX BF3 safe on block.

Why? Having trouble gap closing?

 

[Deadpool2020]

Why? Having trouble gap closing?

Safe armored wakeup.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Safe armored wakeup.

I suppose that could help him, not a terrible buff idea.

 

[Rude]

So while writing my guide on Butcher, I've noticed what I really think the character needs so here it is!

Universal
-S3 Whiffing issues across the board fixed.
-S3's damage increased to 7%.
-Combo scaling on S3 reduced.
-F3's damage increased to 5%.
-Combo Scaling on F3 reduced.

Butcher
-B1's startup reduced to 11f, down from 15f.
-Combo scaling on B1U2 reduced SIGNIFICANTLY.
-B1U2 is now -9 on block, down from -16.
-Command grab reverted back to 6f.
-F1 Now tick throws.
-F2's startup reduced to 14f, down from 19f.
-Command grab puts the opponent closer to you.
-Command grab is now +8, up from +5.
-Mallet Strike (DF2) and Mallet Slam (DF2+BLK) Startup frames reduced to 19f, down from 25f and remove gap in F12 xx DF2
-Mallet Slam (DF2+BLK) is now -10 on block, down from -15 on block and adds a little bit of push back to it.

So here's my thought process behind my list. First, S3 whiffing is something that needs to be fixed, end of story. Next, S3 and F3, in case you guys haven't notice, aren't very good. S3 does "meh" damage and has way more scaling than it should have, making combos involving your only mid be...not great. Same with F3, only even more so. Now as for the Butcher specifics, B1 is clearly supposed to be our "go to" mid but the only problem being IT IS ONE OF THE WORST MIDS IN THE GAME. It leads to PITIFUL amounts of damage and is super unsafe in the form of B1U2 which is -16. Therefor, lets make the mid useable eh? Secondly, the command grab being 8 frames right now, kind of feels bad. The whole point of the damn thing was to be EXTREMELY fast. And while 8 frames is quite fast, the command grab didn't need a nerf really. F1 tick throwing! Ok this one is a bit of a greedy one by me but I feel like it would help immensely. Butcher uses staggers and sometimes 50/50's to open up the opponent. You add a tick throw to F1, it becomes EXTREMELY deadly and would help him with his pressure in a very good way. Another way to help his pressure is for his restand to NOT send them full screen. A character with a terrible time dealing with zoning you'd think his command grab wouldn't be something that would put him at a disadvantage, increasing the plus frames of it would also be helpful in keeping up the pressure but the command grab putting the opponent closer is more important than that. Increasing the speed of DF2 and removing that gap, which im pretty sure increasing the speed does that if I'm thinking frames work the way they do, would A: Make Butcher have a safe unabusable way to build meter and
B: Butcher could use his wealth of + frames (unabusable meaning the opponent can't abuse the gap). Lastly, reducing how punishable Mallet Slam is (by removing negative frames and adding push back) encourages its use a lot more. This can be a very good tool for closing the gap but it also can be baited SUPER hard and every time it will get punished. Let me know what you guys think of this list. Too good? Just right?

If you increase the hit adv of grab to +8, allow the grab to leave the opponent closer to you, and you have a 7f advancing tick grab set up, what's stopping you from looping this over and over?

 

[CrazyFingers]

If you increase the hit adv of grab to +8, allow the grab to leave the opponent closer to you, and you have a 7f advancing tick grab set up, what's stopping you from looping this over and over?

You...have an excellent point! One or the other then, I honestly don't care which one id get as long as it's one of them...although wait wouldn't you be able to still jump out of that?