What's new

The Last Son of Krypton -- Superman General Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
What are you guys using in your anti air trip gaurd game. I find at typical sweep range F2 whiffs alot of time while they are landing. I'm kinda salty about air grab being a useless AA personally. I would trade + breath for that move to work like a dp like it looks it does. Really at this point I'm loving Superman I probably would never quit him for fanboy reasons. I kinda feel he lacks in the crossup Dept. I did find j1 randomly crossed up fur me today im assuming the spacing has to be spot on for this one to crossup as ive only seen it once. Funny thing is I think Supes and WW are very similar but she has what he lacks in 3 key depts good crossups, Reliable Anti airs, and decent wakeup with MB sheild bash. I definitely am keeping her as a secondary I feel like shes the akuma to supes ryu just more tools overall minus the whole lower life thing.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I'm not getting it. Mids hit both standing / crouching. Shouldn't special mids be the same? If it whiffs on crouchers why not just make it a high to begin with? Pardon me, I'm still getting used to this game's system. It's unlike any of the other games I've played before.
special mids hit a crouching opponent who is not blocking

highs dont

High = whiffs on crouchers with or without block

Special High = High that hits all crouchers

Mid = Hits anything

Special mid = hits anything except when crouching and unblocking
 

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
New gameplan for starting off rounds, it's been working well so far.

If you land the first hit of a match (air-to-air exchange, F23 right away, dash under AA, etc) you should save the meter instead of using it right away. Do a meterless trait combo and carry them to the corner. Once you get them there try your best to mix them up and land another hit. With that 1 meter you earned that's an easy 50%+ gone from their life bar. I've effectively done like 70%+ within the first 20 seconds like this. If you use your meter midscreen, you'll carry them to the corner but get half-ass damage because you have no more resources to pummel them with.

General rule of thumb seems to be use trait first always. If you're carrying to the corner and want more damage, use trait. If you aren't sure a corner combo will kill on the first lifebar, use trait. Conserving meter is so important, it turns a safe blockstring into 6 frame combo starters (D1 xx MB Breath), and increases B1's damage potential by an astronomical amount (B1 xx MB Breath), which in turn increases its viability in the corner. Meter can also be used for [MB] heat visions, supers, pushblocks, and nutty corner damage. Trait is just so much less valuable (largely because it regenerates). My apologies if this sounds like really obvious stuff, it was just floating around in my head.
 

PANDA

*Supreme Member*
So I've been playing with Supes for the past couple days and I must admit he is well rounded high tier character.

His dmg output is one of the higher ones (especially with trait), and not even mentioning his corner combo shenanigans.

I find his jump-ins really good (JI2) especially if accompanied by an air dash.
However, his cross-up potential is non-existent unlike Batsman (Who IMO has the best cross-up in the game).

Also, in his move list it doesn't state that you can Heat Vision right after the command air throw (which i found out after watching combo videos). So I'm wondering if there's anything else NOT LISTED that has yet to be found...

I might make him my secondary right below Grundy ^_^
 

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
Everything else seems to be accounted for in the command list; it was just the air grab~heat vision that was omitted. I'm going to have to disagree with you on the Batman's cross-up being the best in the game. I think it's been widely accept that Joker / Doomsday have the best cross-up. Joker's is so nonsense you have to try it for yourself to truly understand. Doomsday's is a body splash that crosses up and beats 90% of all AAs in the game.
 

PANDA

*Supreme Member*
Everything else seems to be accounted for in the command list; it was just the air grab~heat vision that was omitted. I'm going to have to disagree with you on the Batman's cross-up being the best in the game. I think it's been widely accept that Joker / Doomsday have the best cross-up. Joker's is so nonsense you have to try it for yourself to truly understand. Doomsday's is a body splash that crosses up and beats 90% of all AAs in the game.
Well speaking of body splashes. Doesn't Bane have one too? how is his compared to Doomsday's?
 

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
EGP Tyrant...

and...yeah that's it for now I think. I have matches up from a week 1 tourny, but I'm not a pro.

Btw, I wanted to save this announcement for after this weekend's event (it's a Road to Evo tourny in Toronto and Chris G is coming) but I'm so excited and I can't wait much longer. While in the lab grinding for the tournament, I discovered 2-3 new things that will fundamentally change how Superman is played in the corner and midscreen. I'm of the opinion that his 50/50s being subpar (slow, punishable) is negligible in light of these discoveries. One of these was brought on because of a post knoterror made a week ago, so thanks for the motivation, and we'll talk so we can make a thread about it. I feel like the universe conspired in my favour so that I found these things right before a major Injustice tournament. On Sunday night / Monday expect a new thread with detailed Oki setups, tricky 90% resets (no interactables), and the dirtiest corner mix-ups ughhh. In the meantime, I'll share a bit of what I found.

Trying to land hits with Superman in the corner is VERY important, moreso than most I'd argue. My general strategy is to save the tricky mix-ups for corner pressure, so that once I get them there I take 60% in one shot with a mix-up they haven't seen. Midscreen I play safe and predictable, focusing on whiff punishing and match-up exploitation / punishes. Now though, the people I play have started blocking my mix-ups more consistently. When I carry them to the corner I don't get a hit as often. Here are some tricks that have helped me open up players in my community who REALLY know how to block (marvel players):

- j.2 or 3 xx j.D3. This functions as a fairly quick double overhead, and is completely counter-intuitive to the typical "block high for jump-in, block low" pattern that is so many do habitually. The dive is unsafe, but I only ever go for this on their first life bar, or if they have no clash. You get 73% 1 trait + meter if you pull this out at the right time.

- F23 xx Breath x1 or 2, visually confirm stand block, take a risk with F2D1. People get so caught up with this "block trap" that they mash backdash or stand block more than one rep of it. If you catch them in the corner with F2D1, you get the exact same combos normally provided by landing 223. You know what that means? F2D1, 3~Trait, 3~[MB] Breath, Heat Zap to 60+%. Meterless with trait you're still getting roughly 40%. Godlike, but not to be overused.

- D1, pause, throw. I use this a ton near the corner. Once I have conditioned them to expect it, I jump back, wait for their grab attempt and dive. Full combo if they grab attempt, if not I'll airdash on top of them and go for more pressure. Not foolproof, but good to sprinkle in every now and then if you set it up properly.

----

Set Up / Oki related

As we already know, F2D13, B23 and D3 cause untechable knockdowns. knoterror made a thread showing us a few uses for F2D13, so I jumped on and tried to add more to his theories. There is alot of information I have to type, and sadly I can't do it all now, but I will get to it and I will make accompanying videos.

- No more ending combos with D3. If you end BnBs with 22 xx scoop, D3, you always position yourself point blank. There aren't too many things you can do from that close that are difficult to block. This completely changes if you do, for example: combo of choice -> 22 xx scoop, B23 or F2D13 (as knoterror showed us). F2D13 gives you the most frame advantage, and is thus the better choice. Both allow you to do different setups, so it bears keeping in mind that they have their respective uses. Oh, - and both of these do more damage than D3.

E.g.:
Post F2D13 Midscreen Knockdown

Safe mix-ups;
- dash forward meaty F3 (+ on block so if they block it free pressure anyways)
- dash forward meaty B1 (guess with B1 xx MB Breath, safe combo starter attempt)

Tricky shit;
- buffer forward jump, delay air dash so it comes during descent of jump arc, cross-up j.2

Gimmicks / Unsafe trickery;
- dash forward 223_22~scoop 50/50
- dash forward F3 charge, dash cancel throw (keep them on their toes)
- dash forward F3 charge, dash cancel D1 xx MB Breath (catches them if they try to break / flinch)

The rest I'll post about after the weekend.


The last but most AMAZING thing I found. During any corner combo that involves F2D1, so say:

223, 3~Trait, F2D1x3, 3~scoop, 3 Breath (53%). During the 3rd rep of F2D1, do F2D13 instead. If you dash IMMEDIATELY you cross up their body AND it's an untechable knockdown. What have I been doing? Dash under into [MB] F3 from the other side, dash under B1 for a low, dash under airdash mix-ups, dash under throw. There is so much shit just waiting to be done.

Have a fantastic weekend everyone! Lab up guys, there is so much more tech on the way come Monday.
 

Knoterror

Kombatant
Gooooood shit. Really good write-up.

I think my corner game is going to revolve around untechables into a 50/50 free IAGS attempt or B1~MB Breath/Scoop. It seems like it would be pretty hard to fuzzy. They're around the same frames and B1 on startup even kind of looks like an IAGS.
 

DeathAndHealing

Apprentice
Raynex that - "j.anything xx j.D3." is sick! I dont have time to find anything testing out all this stuff in my notes for the guide. :( J3 into Jd3 is hard but the others are fairly easy. SuperMan is the king of the Poor Mans Mixups! Have you successfully mixed someone up with J.Anything into ground smash or low scoop/b1?
 

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
Raynex that - "j.anything xx j.D3." is sick! I dont have time to find anything testing out all this stuff in my notes for the guide. :( J3 into Jd3 is hard but the others are fairly easy. SuperMan is the king of the Poor Mans Mixups! Have you successfully mixed someone up with J.Anything into ground smash or low scoop/b1?
No not exactly. The jumping attack xx ground smash isn't a mix-up in the realm of 50/50s. It's a one shot hard to block setup that deals ridiculous damage. Think of it like your ace in the hole. Superman's lows are too slow or unsafe for them to be used in a mix-up with the double overhead. But that's how I feel he plays...one shot into amazing damage.

and don't worry man, the testing and experimentation is why I'm here! Looking after the Supes boards is a team effort dude.

Hopefully I get to run some of this + the other dirt I have on stream this weekend lol
 

DeathAndHealing

Apprentice
Thats why he is the King of the Poor Mans Mixups, lmao. Every 50/50 he has is really bad, but he has them. Obviously more effective in the corner but I think this would make for a good gimmick play just to keep someone on their toes!
 

Pterodactyl

Plus on block.
People complain about Doomsday and Deathstroke but Superman, Superman is bullshit.


He has it all, seriously.

I feel like he should be one of the best because of who he is, same with Batman, but still.


Feels like i'm fighting the perfect character, he's beatable but he has an answer and move for everything.


I might just pick him up.
 

Knoterror

Kombatant
Dude, we've only just scratched the surface of what Supes can do, in my opinion. It only gets dirtier from here.
 

CCVengeance

The one guy hoping for Kai
EGP Tyrant...

and...yeah that's it for now I think. I have matches up from a week 1 tourny, but I'm not a pro.

Btw, I wanted to save this announcement for after this weekend's event (it's a Road to Evo tourny in Toronto and Chris G is coming) but I'm so excited and I can't wait much longer. While in the lab grinding for the tournament, I discovered 2-3 new things that will fundamentally change how Superman is played in the corner and midscreen. I'm of the opinion that his 50/50s being subpar (slow, punishable) is negligible in light of these discoveries. One of these was brought on because of a post knoterror made a week ago, so thanks for the motivation, and we'll talk so we can make a thread about it. I feel like the universe conspired in my favour so that I found these things right before a major Injustice tournament. On Sunday night / Monday expect a new thread with detailed Oki setups, tricky 90% resets (no interactables), and the dirtiest corner mix-ups ughhh. In the meantime, I'll share a bit of what I found.

Trying to land hits with Superman in the corner is VERY important, moreso than most I'd argue. My general strategy is to save the tricky mix-ups for corner pressure, so that once I get them there I take 60% in one shot with a mix-up they haven't seen. Midscreen I play safe and predictable, focusing on whiff punishing and match-up exploitation / punishes. Now though, the people I play have started blocking my mix-ups more consistently. When I carry them to the corner I don't get a hit as often. Here are some tricks that have helped me open up players in my community who REALLY know how to block (marvel players):

- j.2 or 3 xx j.D3. This functions as a fairly quick double overhead, and is completely counter-intuitive to the typical "block high for jump-in, block low" pattern that is so many do habitually. The dive is unsafe, but I only ever go for this on their first life bar, or if they have no clash. You get 73% 1 trait + meter if you pull this out at the right time.

- F23 xx Breath x1 or 2, visually confirm stand block, take a risk with F2D1. People get so caught up with this "block trap" that they mash backdash or stand block more than one rep of it. If you catch them in the corner with F2D1, you get the exact same combos normally provided by landing 223. You know what that means? F2D1, 3~Trait, 3~[MB] Breath, Heat Zap to 60+%. Meterless with trait you're still getting roughly 40%. Godlike, but not to be overused.

- D1, pause, throw. I use this a ton near the corner. Once I have conditioned them to expect it, I jump back, wait for their grab attempt and dive. Full combo if they grab attempt, if not I'll airdash on top of them and go for more pressure. Not foolproof, but good to sprinkle in every now and then if you set it up properly.

----

Set Up / Oki related

As we already know, F2D13, B23 and D3 cause untechable knockdowns. knoterror made a thread showing us a few uses for F2D13, so I jumped on and tried to add more to his theories. There is alot of information I have to type, and sadly I can't do it all now, but I will get to it and I will make accompanying videos.

- No more ending combos with D3. If you end BnBs with 22 xx scoop, D3, you always position yourself point blank. There aren't too many things you can do from that close that are difficult to block. This completely changes if you do, for example: combo of choice -> 22 xx scoop, B23 or F2D13 (as knoterror showed us). F2D13 gives you the most frame advantage, and is thus the better choice. Both allow you to do different setups, so it bears keeping in mind that they have their respective uses. Oh, - and both of these do more damage than D3.

E.g.:
Post F2D13 Midscreen Knockdown

Safe mix-ups;
- dash forward meaty F3 (+ on block so if they block it free pressure anyways)
- dash forward meaty B1 (guess with B1 xx MB Breath, safe combo starter attempt)

Tricky shit;
- buffer forward jump, delay air dash so it comes during descent of jump arc, cross-up j.2

Gimmicks / Unsafe trickery;
- dash forward 223_22~scoop 50/50
- dash forward F3 charge, dash cancel throw (keep them on their toes)
- dash forward F3 charge, dash cancel D1 xx MB Breath (catches them if they try to break / flinch)

The rest I'll post about after the weekend.


The last but most AMAZING thing I found. During any corner combo that involves F2D1, so say:

223, 3~Trait, F2D1x3, 3~scoop, 3 Breath (53%). During the 3rd rep of F2D1, do F2D13 instead. If you dash IMMEDIATELY you cross up their body AND it's an untechable knockdown. What have I been doing? Dash under into [MB] F3 from the other side, dash under B1 for a low, dash under airdash mix-ups, dash under throw. There is so much shit just waiting to be done.

Have a fantastic weekend everyone! Lab up guys, there is so much more tech on the way come Monday.
The more I read the thicker my genitals got.Good shit!
 

TimTim

Don't Hate
So I've done, like every superman combo known to man. But just cannot do the fucking laser after air grab. What is wrong with me :O.
I don't know the timing at all if anyone can give me visual or audio cues that would be great.
 

MKB

Forum General Emeritus
I don't think there is a thread dedicated to wrestling out there in the forums, so I've gone ahead and created one. Feel free to discuss anything WWE/TNA or Indy related here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.