Tom Brady
Noob
dude, dont tell me being able to slide under a projectile makes him OP....Okay, but how would it not make him OP? : /
dude, dont tell me being able to slide under a projectile makes him OP....Okay, but how would it not make him OP? : /
So... Wait. Subs is losing his reset, but Ermac can still rack up 51% off a jump-in punch with one bar? Cyrax can still rack up 55% off a jump-in punch with one bar? Hell, Ermac gets what, 47% if he combos off an uppercut? This is a turtling character, bear in mind. Sub Zero has to work for his damage, but it's not okay for him to dish out as much damage as a character that is rewarded for sitting back?
All I'm going to say is this: If Sub Zero isn't allowed to do upwards of 50% for one bar, Cyrax and Ermac shouldn't be allowed to do it either. There's no excuse for that. I still stand by the fact that Sub's freeze duration should be longer on the ground, so he at least has time to get in and do some damage on a full-screen freeze. Again, Cyrax can do this on a full-screen net, for much higher damage, but Subs can't do this on a full-screen freeze for a meager 25%? It's bullshit.
What chance is there for a damage increase now that he's losing the reset? I believe you're advocating for a slight damage buff.dude, dont tell me being able to slide under a projectile makes him OP....
he wont need a damage buff when they buff his slide.What chance is there for a damage increase now that he's losing the reset? I believe you're advocating for a slight damage buff.
I know rite?So sub is going to be able to slide under projectiles like Mileena's sais on reaction and make them pointless to use, meanwhile we have chars like Baraka who have to burn a bar just to get around a single projectile.
Sounds fair.
if baraka could get in anytime he wanted, you would never get around 22 1+2 lockdown. and its not on reaction, slide wont go under untill frame 5 so he cant instantly go under projectiles.So sub is going to be able to slide under projectiles like Mileena's sais on reaction and make them pointless to use, meanwhile we have chars like Baraka who have to burn a bar just to get around a single projectile.
Sounds fair.
Alright, I'll trust you on this. Sub was my main for a long time before I went to Cyber Sub (I played both from launch, but I later realized Cyber Sub fit my playstyle better), and he's still a very close second. I'd like to see him get some buffs here and there, but they'd need to nerf him to the point of uselessness to keep me off that character.his slide buffs should be all he needs once they fix some of the other stuff in the game.
Well it depends. If he can Slide under all duckable projectiles on reaction, then it stops almost every zoner being able to do anything about Sub until he gets in on them, which is where they don't want him to be. If he has to telegraph a projectile, then fair enough. I assume the latter would depend on match-ups, anyway.dude, dont tell me being able to slide under a projectile makes him OP....
Man, I don't even main Sub but you gotta understand Tom, some, ok, A LOT of people frequenting these threads, including myself, are not on your level. Not on your level, not in your same line of thinking most of the time. We're all guilty of it in other areas: We try to teach somebody something new, forgetting they are just grasping certain concepts and we assume they get our calculus language forgetting they're still doing geometry. We either pump our brakes and remember to speak in basic, easy to understand terms AND never assume they automatically understand things you yourself do, or we move on thinking they just don't get it or are being assholes.his slide buffs should be all he needs once they fix some of the other stuff in the game.
Are you fucking kidding me.sub is losing his reset in a patch. ex GF will be the same as normal freeze now in that the opponent will be able to escape by staying at neutral.
sub needs the buff the colt mentioned, he could use a 4%-5% damage buff overall.
he needs a buff, trust me... I WOULD KNOW BETTER THAN MOST!
slide is punishable on block, stay at a certain range and bait it out, noob still rapes subWell it depends. If he can Slide under all duckable projectiles on reaction, then it stops almost every zoner being able to do anything about Sub until he gets in on them, which is where they don't want him to be. If he has to telegraph a projectile, then fair enough. I assume the latter would depend on match-ups, anyway.
I don't mean to be that guy, but it seems like they're more concerned with buffing the more popular characters (and hopefully nerfing the problem children like Cyrax and Kung Lao), rather than trying to work on the lame ducks. I agree that they need to buff some characters more than others, but I can understand why they're focused on the tourney scene as it stands. Even then, we don't know what they're planning for the rest of the roster yet, so for all we know, they might be getting a leg up.So sub is going to be able to slide under projectiles like Mileena's sais on reaction and make them pointless to use, meanwhile we have chars like Baraka who have to burn a bar just to get around a single projectile.
Sounds fair.
Rule: All context is lost on the internet. I give Mechacide the benefit of the doubt and think he is merely asking Tom for clarification so he can understand it the way Tom does, Tom knowing much more about Sub and all.i just have to shake my head when people argue with someone that has played this game longer than almost anyone else. i know human is human, and everyone is driven by some sort of biased opinion, but for the most part you gotta give tom the benefit of the doubt. i read through some of these sub zero threads and see people saying how they shouldn't buff him blah blah blah but these people are not all sub zero players. they may not understand what he really needs and does not need because they haven't put in the same amount of time. you never see me in the "buff sheeva" thread saying yay OR nay. i don't know that fucking character well enough to have an opinion.
hopefully these sub threads are left to people that really know the character. that's all i'm sayin...
we can all sit there and make the "why do u have this but baraka doesn"t" argument / fallacy for every single powerful thing in the game, just because something makes one char strong and another char doesnt have it doesnt make him op or anything or make the modification justifiable. and i will repeat once again that noob owns his little bro easySo sub is going to be able to slide under projectiles like Mileena's sais on reaction and make them pointless to use, meanwhile we have chars like Baraka who have to burn a bar just to get around a single projectile.
Sounds fair.
90% true = almost pointless, slide is to fast for going under all projectiles.So sub is going to be able to slide under projectiles like Mileena's sais on reaction and make them pointless to use...
...You're kidding, right? Since when does having overheads or low strings make a character good? Hell, how many 50/50 mixups in this game can't be fuzzy guarded with ease? Kung Lao? Block low during his normal strings, fuzzy guard his painfully telegraphed overhead if he tries to pop you. Voila, you just beat his "mixups". I can tell you right now that it's not his low string bullshit that makes him as overpowered as he is.ermac is fine the way he is, u shouldnt getting hit by ermac outside of lift punishes, he has 0 overheads and no comboable low strings (though it is solid)
perhaps cyrax's 85% shenanigans is a little much but oh well, sub still has superior strings to him and a much better pressure game that ermac
Yeah, that's exactly right. Tom edited a post further up that states Sub wouldn't be able to Slide under projectiles on reaction, because the duck-state starts at frame 5 of the animation. I'm glad that's clarified a little, but I'm afraid I still don't see how that wouldn't be on reaction... There's going to be a sweet spot, where Sub can hover around, just hitting b,f over and over in that one little zone, and if the opp (say Mileena, for example) starts the animation for their projectile, he'll start up his Slide and it'll go under.Rule: All context is lost on the internet. I give Mechacide the benefit of the doubt and think he is merely asking Tom for clarification so he can understand it the way Tom does, Tom knowing much more about Sub and all.
"Over us"? He has it over more than Sub Zero. He also makes it all but impossible to pressure him on a knockdown, so I don't see where you get this idea that his wakeup options aren't great. If you cross him up, he'll roll or uppercut you (depending on how late you jump). If you try to attack him on wakeup, you run the risk of getting teleslammed for a full combo punish. If you block in anticipation of a teleslam... Well, you're both back to square one?Ermac has issues that arent adressed by his high damage. His wake up options are not great, he cant deal with pressure well either. Ermac is a character that punishes well, he happens to punish SZ well. Dont go mad just because he has matchup advantage over us.
So whats your suggestion? Less damage? He would still have the tactics you described. What can you do then?"Over us"? He has it over more than Sub Zero. He also makes it all but impossible to pressure him on a knockdown, so I don't see where you get this idea that his wakeup options aren't great. If you cross him up, he'll roll or uppercut you (depending on how late you jump). If you try to attack him on wakeup, you run the risk of getting teleslammed for a full combo punish. If you block in anticipation of a teleslam... Well, you're both back to square one?
Ermac isn't exactly Shang Tsung in the way of wakeups. He has enough options to get himself out of trouble.