Mechacide
Noob
Two words, one hyphen: CORNER-RAPE
Sub-Zero is possibly the very best character at keeping a character in the corner, while simultaneously removing their ability to retaliate. Once Sub has his opp in the corner, every match-up ranges from around 7-3 to 9-1. Because of this, I think his match-up charts should take this more heavily into consideration (such as how easy it is for him to get the opp into the corner, how hard it is for the opp to get out, etc.)
If that were explored more, I feel that his match-ups would start to look a lot better for him, and people that feel he needs buffs may change their mind.
Sub-Zero doesn't need high combo-dmg midscreen, because his combos do something much better: They push the opp closer to the corner. When his new staple, the reset, was discovered, I wasn't excited about the dmg; I was excited about the extra wall-carry he gets.
Some corner-tech that some people may be overlooking: 2,1,2 is the best block-string Sub has in the corner, because the Clone he gets from it creates some very interesting mixups. If the opp blocks (2,1),2 while crouching, and then eats a Slide, they will be frozen by the Clone. The follow-up dmg to this doesn't scale as much as usual, and he can obviously go into his EX Ground Freeze reset from here if he wants to.
*Three side-notes to this can be found at the bottom of this post.
If the opp starts to duck, you can obviously mix them up with the f+4 OH. However, I feel that you're better off just continuing block-pressure, taking chip and building meter, and then setting up your next Clone. Not only because f+4 is quite hard to HC, but also because you don't really want them to have the option to break. It's a situational thing, obviously. Expanding on that, if you have them frozen by a Clone, and don't want them to break and reset the situation, you can use an Ice Blast to take a little dmg and have enough time to set up another Clone.
If the opp tries to jump over the Clone (which they can) you can either aa2,2 them, or Slide them as they're on their way down. They will fall into the Clone and be frozen.
Two other good ways to set up Clones in the corner are with d+1 and d+4, either on hit or block (though d+4 needs to be spaced correctly, just one tap outside of absolute 0 range). After this you can continue your normal block-pressure (I recommend (2),2 because it often hits people out of crouch-normals, as well as hitting jumpers. Then I dash in just before the Clone disappears and start the 2,1,2 block-string into Clone again). However, you can also use a back-throw to pull the opp into the Clone. You have to catch them with the tip of your throw's hitbox, but when done correctly they can't actually break the throw, because they are frozen before the point of the animation where breaks occur. Not only does this obviously lead to a normal combo, but Sub also has the perfect amount of time to stand up and start charging his b+2 for the reset-shenanigans.
This trick is much more consistent with a d+4 (hit) xx Clone, because you can throw them at point-blank and it'll still work. But it's still very doable after d+1 xx Clone and a blocked d+4 xx Clone. It has to be a back-throw. Forward-throws cause 6-10% dmg and Sub gets knocked down.
It also works off of the 2,1,2 Clone as well, but it's harder to space correctly and thus a little less consistent.
What this means is that Sub has an i10 UB launcher against cornered opponents, assuming he's set the situation up correctly.
Another interesting thing about 2,1,2 xx Clone on block, is that it sometimes (more often than not) causes Sub to fly much farther back than he normally does when Cloning. I haven't been able to test properly whether or not this affects certain match-ups (such as throwing him out of range of Ermac's TKP), but it's something worth exploring.
I think that about covers all of the rapey corner-tech I use. If I think of anything else that I've left out, I'll edit or post again.
I urge people to test this stuff on their harder match-ups. Mileena, for example, has a very hard time getting out of the corner, in my experience. 2,2,2 as a combo-ender, Ice Clone, and then dashing into 2,2 seems to cover every wake-up option she has. She'll either be frozen by the Clone, or interrupted by your 2,2. Her EX teleport will whiff behind you, which causes you to lose corner-pressure, but that seems to be the worst outcome for Sub in this scenario.
Mileena can duck under Sub's 2, whether blocking or not, and so it's a bit harder for him to pressure her and set up Clones. However, once he has a Clone there, she can't really do anything. d+4 might seem like her best option, but she gets frozen by the Clone before she hits you. You can also mix 2,2 and d+4s with your 2,1 pressure to stop her trying to interrupt.
Suddenly that bad match-up Sub has against Mileena seems pretty good, right? It's not even that hard to push her back into the corner, because any special she has to stop you moving forward comes at great risk. Just take a bit of chip, ducking when you can (to prevent her building more meter) and be patient.
Anyway, I think I've talked enough now. I hope this wasn't too long that you skipped it completely, and more importantly I hope that it was helpful to anyone that did read it.
Happy raping!
SCOOBIYA!
*Side-notes for the 2,1,2 stuff:
Some characters will be frozen by the Clone even if they block the 2,1,2 standing. Ermac, Sektor, and Sheeva are a few examples, and there are plenty more.
Some characters can interrupt (2,1),2. Kung Lao's Spin, Reptile's Dash, Raiden's Teleport, CSZ's parry, and maybe some others. Even more characters can armour through it. This is just something to consider in match-ups, and the latter obviously depends on if the opp has meter. I recommend testing the opponent first, and then adjusting accordingly, as it isn't exactly easy to interrupt. If they do interrupt, you still have mixup potential from there.
If a character blocks 2,1, but then gets hit by the last 2 (perhaps a messed up attempt to interrupt, or they simply thought you'd stop at 2,1) and you Clone, they'll be frozen. I believe this happens 100% of the time, but it may be a little less consistent than that.
Sub-Zero is possibly the very best character at keeping a character in the corner, while simultaneously removing their ability to retaliate. Once Sub has his opp in the corner, every match-up ranges from around 7-3 to 9-1. Because of this, I think his match-up charts should take this more heavily into consideration (such as how easy it is for him to get the opp into the corner, how hard it is for the opp to get out, etc.)
If that were explored more, I feel that his match-ups would start to look a lot better for him, and people that feel he needs buffs may change their mind.
Sub-Zero doesn't need high combo-dmg midscreen, because his combos do something much better: They push the opp closer to the corner. When his new staple, the reset, was discovered, I wasn't excited about the dmg; I was excited about the extra wall-carry he gets.
Some corner-tech that some people may be overlooking: 2,1,2 is the best block-string Sub has in the corner, because the Clone he gets from it creates some very interesting mixups. If the opp blocks (2,1),2 while crouching, and then eats a Slide, they will be frozen by the Clone. The follow-up dmg to this doesn't scale as much as usual, and he can obviously go into his EX Ground Freeze reset from here if he wants to.
*Three side-notes to this can be found at the bottom of this post.
If the opp starts to duck, you can obviously mix them up with the f+4 OH. However, I feel that you're better off just continuing block-pressure, taking chip and building meter, and then setting up your next Clone. Not only because f+4 is quite hard to HC, but also because you don't really want them to have the option to break. It's a situational thing, obviously. Expanding on that, if you have them frozen by a Clone, and don't want them to break and reset the situation, you can use an Ice Blast to take a little dmg and have enough time to set up another Clone.
If the opp tries to jump over the Clone (which they can) you can either aa2,2 them, or Slide them as they're on their way down. They will fall into the Clone and be frozen.
Two other good ways to set up Clones in the corner are with d+1 and d+4, either on hit or block (though d+4 needs to be spaced correctly, just one tap outside of absolute 0 range). After this you can continue your normal block-pressure (I recommend (2),2 because it often hits people out of crouch-normals, as well as hitting jumpers. Then I dash in just before the Clone disappears and start the 2,1,2 block-string into Clone again). However, you can also use a back-throw to pull the opp into the Clone. You have to catch them with the tip of your throw's hitbox, but when done correctly they can't actually break the throw, because they are frozen before the point of the animation where breaks occur. Not only does this obviously lead to a normal combo, but Sub also has the perfect amount of time to stand up and start charging his b+2 for the reset-shenanigans.
This trick is much more consistent with a d+4 (hit) xx Clone, because you can throw them at point-blank and it'll still work. But it's still very doable after d+1 xx Clone and a blocked d+4 xx Clone. It has to be a back-throw. Forward-throws cause 6-10% dmg and Sub gets knocked down.
It also works off of the 2,1,2 Clone as well, but it's harder to space correctly and thus a little less consistent.
What this means is that Sub has an i10 UB launcher against cornered opponents, assuming he's set the situation up correctly.
Another interesting thing about 2,1,2 xx Clone on block, is that it sometimes (more often than not) causes Sub to fly much farther back than he normally does when Cloning. I haven't been able to test properly whether or not this affects certain match-ups (such as throwing him out of range of Ermac's TKP), but it's something worth exploring.
I think that about covers all of the rapey corner-tech I use. If I think of anything else that I've left out, I'll edit or post again.
I urge people to test this stuff on their harder match-ups. Mileena, for example, has a very hard time getting out of the corner, in my experience. 2,2,2 as a combo-ender, Ice Clone, and then dashing into 2,2 seems to cover every wake-up option she has. She'll either be frozen by the Clone, or interrupted by your 2,2. Her EX teleport will whiff behind you, which causes you to lose corner-pressure, but that seems to be the worst outcome for Sub in this scenario.
Mileena can duck under Sub's 2, whether blocking or not, and so it's a bit harder for him to pressure her and set up Clones. However, once he has a Clone there, she can't really do anything. d+4 might seem like her best option, but she gets frozen by the Clone before she hits you. You can also mix 2,2 and d+4s with your 2,1 pressure to stop her trying to interrupt.
Suddenly that bad match-up Sub has against Mileena seems pretty good, right? It's not even that hard to push her back into the corner, because any special she has to stop you moving forward comes at great risk. Just take a bit of chip, ducking when you can (to prevent her building more meter) and be patient.
Anyway, I think I've talked enough now. I hope this wasn't too long that you skipped it completely, and more importantly I hope that it was helpful to anyone that did read it.
Happy raping!
SCOOBIYA!
*Side-notes for the 2,1,2 stuff:
Some characters will be frozen by the Clone even if they block the 2,1,2 standing. Ermac, Sektor, and Sheeva are a few examples, and there are plenty more.
Some characters can interrupt (2,1),2. Kung Lao's Spin, Reptile's Dash, Raiden's Teleport, CSZ's parry, and maybe some others. Even more characters can armour through it. This is just something to consider in match-ups, and the latter obviously depends on if the opp has meter. I recommend testing the opponent first, and then adjusting accordingly, as it isn't exactly easy to interrupt. If they do interrupt, you still have mixup potential from there.
If a character blocks 2,1, but then gets hit by the last 2 (perhaps a messed up attempt to interrupt, or they simply thought you'd stop at 2,1) and you Clone, they'll be frozen. I believe this happens 100% of the time, but it may be a little less consistent than that.
