The greatest active frame in MK11 normals are 7f at best

[Eddy Wang]

Disclaimer: This was all based on data taken from the MK Reveal build, anything on that build is subject to change and what you see here might not be what you find in the release version of the game, to remind you that the frame data is still incomplete as some of its intel wasn't shown on the build intentionally.


Was looking at the frame data from MK11 and it seems NRS has shifted the way they handle some things, every attack in the game at least for the normals are all 2 to 4 active frames at best, with jump kick being made with either button but same out come they have 7 active frames.

Not only jump attacks where heavily toned down, like none of those jump attacks are actually plus if blocked, in fact they are all negative on block and none of them are overheads on the way down.

So all those MKX Jump attacks with 10 to 15 active frames overheads and still plus on block are officially gone, the best you get its a jump kick with 7 active frames (much less than many fighting games today) and its negative enough to give your turn.

Throws recovery on 34th frame while putting you on a counter state and you can tech after you being grabbed, different from MKX where the recovery is 26 and have to tech as you're being grabbed.

Short Hops NJPs and NJKs are still overheads and fast but are punishable on block.

There is no data on flawless block, or flawless block chip damage.

 

[HeavyNorse]

THE GREATEST ACTIVE FRAME IN MK11 NORMALS ARE 7F

I actually think I heard this being said recently... can't remember from where, if it was one of the interviews or one of the PNDK&M videos or a stream... but it does indeed ring a bell.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I actually think I heard this being said recently... can't remember from where, if it was one of the interviews or one of the PNDK&M videos or a stream... but it does indeed ring a bell.

means a lot of oppressive things are gone, jump attacks being extremely arbitrary are gone as well.

 

[JDM]

Normal jump ins are no longer Overheads on the way down? Are you sure about that?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Normal jump ins are no longer Overheads on the way down? Are you sure about that?

yup, and no longer plus as well, and no longer 10 to 15 active frames
They have been normalized.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

This is big.

I love all this change.

No more ridiculous NJP's launching me into absurdity?
Less incentive for people to jump all the damn time?
Yes. All of my yes.

 

[D-Que Beats]

This is big.

I love all this change.

No more ridiculous NJP's launching me into absurdity?
Less incentive for people to jump all the damn time?
Yes. All of my yes.

Right...take that bitch ass Quan Chi lol

 

[JDM]

yup, and no longer plus as well, and no longer 10 to 15 active frames
They have been normalized.

Damn, that's huge. I don't know how to feel about that honestly. I love the fact that they are toned down overall but that might be too much lol.
That was actually my number 1 requested system mechanic change, even over run which I hated. So I'm happy about it.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Damn, that's huge. I don't know how to feel about that honestly. I love the fact that they are toned down overall but that might be too much lol.
That was actually my number 1 requested system mechanic change, even over run which I hated. So I'm happy about it.

Its actually not too much, if you noticed, ppl still think jumps are strong.

So its within an acceptable treeshold, you can still get strong jumps, but you can no longer jump with a kick from the ground or at the peak of a jump and continue active with the same kick all the way to the ground stuffing every kind of possible reactionary punishes.

There is a risk to jumping which is pretty fair now, and cince there isn't invincible backdashes in this game, helps not having to block those as overheads as well.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Normal jump ins are no longer Overheads on the way down? Are you sure about that?

not overheads? isnt that kinda bad tho? i mean im on board with the other stuff but why shouldnt a jump in be an overhead? isnt it like that in every other fighting game?

 

[Invincible Salads]

also, if jump ins are not plus does that mean you can't create a blockstring on jumpin anymore?

 

[Eddy Wang]

also, if jump ins are not plus does that mean you can't create a blockstring on jumpin anymore?

They varie from -2 to -17. the faster the attack the more negative on block it will be, however slowest one is registed at 11f and its -2 on block.

NRS is going with a risk/reward balance philosophy, a move cannot be two things, a player should be able to decide which one is what they want, take the rist or play it safe.

While there is a risk on doing a slower move, you're safe on the ground and still gives you a full combo, but the anti-air reactionary window is bigger.
If you do a fast one, probably you aren't going to be punished once you land, but won't allow you to continue pressure.

 

[Invincible Salads]

see thats garbage, you should get a block string even after they block your jump in, otherwise whats the point if you can't cancel into a block string?

 

[Eddy Wang]

see thats garbage, you should get a block string even after they block your jump in, otherwise whats the point if you can't cancel into a block string?

The slower the attack is, the less negative you are to whatever, including blockstrings.
How is that garbage, NRS just doesn't want anyone jumping all the time.

 

[Invincible Salads]

The slower the attack is, the less negative you are to whatever, including blockstrings.
How is that garbage, NRS just doesn't want anyone jumping all the time.

and they wont be with strong anti airs and weaker jump ins....but if you should land that Jump in, you should get something for it, at the very least continued offense because hey, they didnt anti-air you

 

[MadeFromMetal]

The slower the attack is, the less negative you are to whatever, including blockstrings.
How is that garbage, NRS just doesn't want anyone jumping all the time.

Then buff anti airs and reward predictions/reactions. If my opponent isn't ready for me to jump at them, I shouldn't be punished with negative frames because they couldn't react in time.

 

[BecomingDeath13]

To be fair, overhead or not I'm still stand blocking that shit because it's in the muscle memory from like every fighter I've ever played. Aerial attacks are overhead

 

[Invincible Salads]

To be fair, overhead or not I'm still stand blocking that shit because it's in the muscle memory from like every fighter I've ever played. Aerial attacks are overhead

yeah im pretty sure thats like a rule in every fighting game that jump ins are moves that need to be stand blocked, Tekken, SF, FighterZ etc

to me this kinda feels like they are taking TOO much advice from people to the point where the game is heading the other direction, instead of having a happy middle ground, they're just completely neutering everything.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Disclaimer: This was all based on data taken from the MK Reveal build, anything on that build is subject to change and what you see here might not be what you find in the release version of the game, to remind you that the frame data is still incomplete as some of its intel wasn't shown on the build intentionally.


Was looking at the frame data from MK11 and it seems NRS has shifted the way they handle some things, every attack in the game at least for the normals are all 2 to 4 active frames at best, with jump kick being made with either button but same out come they have 7 active frames.

Not only jump attacks where heavily toned down, like none of those jump attacks are actually plus if blocked, in fact they are all negative on block and none of them are overheads on the way down.

So all those MKX Jump attacks with 10 to 15 active frames overheads and still plus on block are officially gone, the best you get its a jump kick with 7 active frames (much less than many fighting games today) and its negative enough to give your turn.

I was sooo salty from MKX OP offencive and, especially, OP air, when airborn opponent is always hi reward low risk - tons of active frames of jump-in, idiotic hit- and hurtboxes (Kotal jump-in), and you make a free mix-up from this and your reward is 30-40% of damage, and opponent is always low reward hi risk, d2 14% damage against 30-40% of jump-in, active frames of AA is so much shorter, than jump-ins... MKX - jump to win!
And that shit is goes in hell... Thanx,Paulo, 16 bit and all balance team, nice work, that is what i want

 

[skater11]

so you're saying that on block. A jump in punch into a normal doesn't jail? and can then be poked out of or armored through?

 

[JDM]

A good jump in should be rewarding. It should lead to a blockstring imo. At the very least a jump in kick should. But I haven't touched the game yet and the people who have said that jumping is still strong so I'll wait until I play it to judge more harshly.

 

[Sablicious]

Boon killed Meat.

 

[Eji1700]

I wonder if this is because they can short hop now. Still it's weird if full jump attacks aren't overhead or plus on block. Jumping is already awful in 2d fighters since you can't block. This just makes it awful since you can crouch block vs every jump attempt and also defend vs and empty jump low and wind up with advantage.

I'd be shocked if they actually just made it so the only way around crouch block is throw and standing overhead. Throws are better since once a game a bad tech leads to major damage, but character viability is now tied to how good their standing overhead is

 

[Eddy Wang]

I will honestly wait and see how this plays out, it looks good, people were saying they couldn't anti-air unless on proper distance and some even asked to more anti-air buffs.

J1 are 0 on hit -12 on block 9f startup
J2 are 10 on hit -2 on block 11f startup
J3 and J4 are the same, 9 frame startup 7 active frames only -7 on block

Fastest normal logged to 7f startup
i believe anything -6 will possible be made -7 or -8 on flawless block, we shall see.

 

[Jynks]

Normal jump ins are no longer Overheads on the way down? Are you sure about that?

yup, and no longer plus as well, and no longer 10 to 15 active frames
They have been normalized.

That doesn't sound right to me. I think this is wrong information. I am was under the impression that I saw NJP and JP both being over heads... neither of them popup though.. is that what you mean?

I can not see how they could make a JP blocked while crouching .. you gotta be standing surely?