The greatest active frame in MK11 normals are 7f at best

[Marinjuana]

Not only jump attacks where heavily toned down, like none of those jump attacks are actually plus if blocked, in fact they are all negative on block and none of them are overheads on the way down.

So all those MKX Jump attacks with 10 to 15 active frames overheads and still plus on block are officially gone, the best you get its a jump kick with 7 active frames (much less than many fighting games today) and its negative enough to give your turn.

Are you just assuming this from the frame data? Because NRS jump frame data has always been wacky. I'm playing INJ2 right now and looking at Raiden's J2 frame data. Raiden can jail his 15 frame F2 after a JI2 on block. Depending on the range it's seemingly a few frames more plus then 15+.

If you look at the frame data, you'll find that the data doesn't explain this. The move has 5 active frames and is listed as +1 on block, without a cancel, that should be 5-7 plus frames at most, right? How does a move like that become more than +15 on block? I used to think it was a specific mechanic but then I just went with the frame data being whack. Maybe landing cancels the recovery frames for landing frames instead?

That doesn't mean they couldn't have changed it completely but I wouldn't assume anything like this based off of the frame data. Obviously I haven't played the game and of course I could also be messing the math up and whatnot.

 

[Eddy Wang]

That doesn't sound right to me. I think this is wrong information. I am was under the impression that I saw NJP and JP both being over heads... neither of them popup though.. is that what you mean?

I can not see how they could make a JP blocked while crouching .. you gotta be standing surely?

On the pause menu says jumps are mids
Short hops are all overheads

 

[Jynks]

On the pause menu says jumps are mids
Short hops are all overheads

well... I guess that is settled then.. but that seems really strange to me. So any jump in can be blocked standing or kneeling? That just seems odd.

 

[Eddy Wang]

well... I guess that is settled then.. but that seems really strange to me. So any jump in can be blocked standing or kneeling? That just seems odd.

I think its pretty weird too and doesn't really makes much sense, or either since this is a beta build there are things they really didn't care much, so the data might be wrong or they swapped with the short hops data.

But still i think its a pretty weird decision, i was expecting a nerf on active frames on jumps, normals and mostly everything, but that's too big of a nerf to really go as far as make those moves mids and negative on block.
Can't really say much until release date, that's why i'm saying ppl to don't freak out.

 

[Barrogh]

Well, jump attacks not being overheads is a bit of an overreaction IMO. As for frame data, it surely will depend on height at which your stuff connects.

 

[Braindead]

Like @Marinjuana said, don't judge the jump attacks based on block advantage frame data. They always listed them in a weird way where it doesn't take into account the landing effects.

The active frames should be reliable though.

And IIRC in MKX jump attacks were listed as mid but with a note that they hit overhead on the way down - so that note might still be added later, unless people who played the game can say for sure they're not overhead.

 

[Inzzane_79]

Hmmm, I watched some gameplay of Honeybee yesterday and if I remember correctly he tried to block crouching a jump in and got hit.

Of course it could be that he stopped blocking the second before the jump in connected and got hit because of that.

Would be weird if jump ins are not overheads anymore.

Maaaaan, I can´t wait to play this game myself

 

[Lokheit]

Hummmmmm are you sure they're not OH on the way down, listed as normals and without the clarification note yet?

Also, IIRC frame data for jump attacks in MKX wasn't exact as a ot of it depended on the moment you used the attack so they might still be safe or plus on block.

 

[Tony at Home]

As a note, historically jump in punches cancel landing frames when you input a string before panding. So just being - on block doesn't mean you don't get pressure. Probably still + with cancel advantage.

 

[DDustiNN]

Disclaimer: This was all based on data taken from the MK Reveal build, anything on that build is subject to change and what you see here might not be what you find in the release version of the game, to remind you that the frame data is still incomplete as some of its intel wasn't shown on the build intentionally.


Was looking at the frame data from MK11 and it seems NRS has shifted the way they handle some things, every attack in the game at least for the normals are all 2 to 4 active frames at best, with jump kick being made with either button but same out come they have 7 active frames.

Not only jump attacks where heavily toned down, like none of those jump attacks are actually plus if blocked, in fact they are all negative on block and none of them are overheads on the way down.

So all those MKX Jump attacks with 10 to 15 active frames overheads and still plus on block are officially gone, the best you get its a jump kick with 7 active frames (much less than many fighting games today) and its negative enough to give your turn.

Throws recovery on 34th frame while putting you on a counter state and you can tech after you being grabbed, different from MKX where the recovery is 26 and have to tech as you're being grabbed.

Short Hops NJPs and NJKs are still overheads and fast but are punishable on block.

There is no data on flawless block, or flawless block chip damage.

Where have you seen the full frame data?

 

[ChatterBox]

Another thing that is very helpful about the smaller active frames, if someone does an instant jump normal on the way up, you can walk back and punish them landing instead of punishing them in the air. In MKX and igau you would have to block even if they did an instant jump normal from far away, thus not rewarding you for spacing. The jumper now has to decide on air to air timing or air to ground timing, giving the defender the chance to hit them before the startup of air to ground, or wait and trip guard punish the air to air timing.

 

[Marlow]

if someone does an instant jump normal

Will there still be instant jump normals? I thought the new hop mechanic move would sort of eliminate those.

 

[ChatterBox]

Will there still be instant jump normals? I thought the new hop mechanic move would sort of eliminate those.

maybe not instant, but I mean in general on the way up beginning of a jump

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I think what we have here is a classic case of misinterpretation none of what Eddy assumed from the FD he saw is true.

1-The jump ins are always listed as mids because they are mids on the way up but OH on the way down. I remember this at least being the case in Injustice 2

2-Just because a jump in is negative it doesn't mean that it's not plus If done close enough to the ground. A good example would be the jump CD in kof as you can see here they are all negative on block https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rXwgnBe_A4RmXYV43lO9_8pHdDTzZPeGy_JjHuwV1Ug/edit#gid=1100983537 but they still give you a poke If you do them low enough. They don't jail into blockstring like in MKX or injustice but they are plus enough for you to beat your opponent If you use a fast button AKA not lose your turn. I think this is mostly due to doing the poke low cancelling the recovery animation while still applying the blockstun but I could be wrong about the reason

@Eddy Wang

 

[John Grizzly]

yup, and no longer plus as well, and no longer 10 to 15 active frames
They have been normalized.

So that's why I saw Raiden and Sub (and others, I'm sure) anti-airing with what looked like standing 1's.

This is amazing. One of the main things I've missed since MK9 was reliable anti-airs that lead to combos. Absolutely great change by NRS. No more jumping bean bullshit.

 

[Second Saint]

I wouldn't rely on the on block frame data. The system usually calculates it at an arbitrary height, so it becomes variable depending on how high or deep the jump in hits. It still causes the same amount of block stun, but the recovery is entirely dependent on how fast you land.

And that's assuming that jump punches don't still cancel into strings.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Where have you seen the full frame data?

Someone scrolled down to some characters moveset, i dld the video and went through frame by frame, just to have an idea.

I think what we have here is a classic case of misinterpretation none of what Eddy assumed from the FD he saw is true.

1-The jump ins are always listed as mids because they are mids on the way up but OH on the way down. I remember this at least being the case in Injustice 2

2-Just because a jump in is negative it doesn't mean that it's not plus If done close enough to the ground. A good example would be the jump CD in kof as you can see here they are all negative on block https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rXwgnBe_A4RmXYV43lO9_8pHdDTzZPeGy_JjHuwV1Ug/edit#gid=1100983537 but they still give you a poke If you do them low enough. They don't jail into blockstring like in MKX or injustice but they are plus enough for you to beat your opponent If you use a fast button AKA not lose your turn. I think this is mostly due to doing the poke low cancelling the recovery animation while still applying the blockstun but I could be wrong about the reason

@Eddy Wang

It can also be the case that they haven't put OH on the way as side note like they did in MKX, but its kinda weird seeing jumps listed as mids, its the same on Subs frame data.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Also how the hell does this thread shifted its focus from active frames being toned down to Jump attacks being mid overreaction?
Lets chill and wait, that's all we can do for now.

 

[DDustiNN]

Someone scrolled down to some characters moveset, i dld the video and went through frame by frame, just to have an idea.

It can also be the case that they haven't put OH on the way as side note like they did in MKX, but its kinda weird seeing jumps listed as mids, its the same on Subs frame data.

Nice. Was it all characters or just Skarlet? Do you know which video? Interesting stuff!

 

[Eddy Wang]

Nice. Was it all characters or just Skarlet? Do you know which video? Interesting stuff!

I don't keep track, was on my feed donwloaded to see if there was anything new, saw frame data.
There is baraka as well and someone has posted Sub-Zeroes.

I believe the video is from UK events.