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The Flawless Block Jump In Change Made The Game Worse

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Dude I appreciate you trying to be positive here but IM sorry the wake up options are way too good and reward the defensive player with way too much. And I see a lot of wake ups in tourney's
I'm not being 'positive', I'm just pointing out that the better players get, the fewer of the actual wake up system options they use, in favor of just using normals or blocking much of the time.

Like "wake up buttons" have nothing to do with the wake up system itself -- that's an option you could use in any NRS game under any wakeup system. We just didn't need them when we had OP armored offensive specials that we could use when getting up from a knockdown.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I'm not being 'positive', I'm just pointing out that the better players get, the fewer of the actual wake up system options they use, in favor of just using normals or blocking much of the time.

Like "wake up buttons" have nothing to do with the wake up system itself -- that's an option you could use in any NRS game under any wakeup system. We just didn't need them when we had OP armored offensive specials that we could use when getting up from a knockdown.
wakeup system is just people speaking generally about all the things in play on knockdown. Youre getting caught up on terminology.

It seems like youre being wilfully ignorant. You think in mkx people were just laying on the floor eating mixups cause nobody realised wakeup buttons was a thing? Obviously the mechanics of the game enable it, thats what people dont like. The game feels quite scrappy and loose on the poke and oki front.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
As usual, you are exaggerating to promote an agenda. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that flawless blocking is easy. BioHazard, Deoxys, and Ninja Killa have been the most consistent flawless blockers in the community and even they mistime their flawless block attempts, which is normal given the small frame window.

Some players may claim that they dislike the game's up close meta of low poke, mid string, throw, or flawless block, which is a fair crticism. Nobody is forcing them to play and enjoy the game, though.
I dont think flawless blocking is very difficult. I dont really play that much anymore but you can literally just fish for them at times.
 
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Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
I would also like to follow up that Flawless blocking isnt hard. I took a substantial break from the game, and havent really put much time into it lately, maybe Maybe 8 hours a week. Flawless blocking counter pokes and jumps is kinda just like Guitar Hero to me. If you know its coming and you know what to press and when, where is the hard part for people? Randomly flawless blocking something you didnt read? Yeah, thats hard, usually an accident, and just usually not even worth it Id think, but thats not the discussion. If I do a move or string that is safe but minus, say -4, I can assume you will poke, throw, or commit to a string, with a smaller chance that you may jump or move backwards. Vs MANY characters, buffering the Flawless Block OS will allow you to maybe micro duck the throw, flawless block the pokes and/or strings, and leave you safe vs movement options. It is not hard and everyone should know how to use it in AT least that situation. Its no harder to me, than teching throws was to learn.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Premium Supporter
Sure flawless blocking after a string thats -3/-6 isnt hard, but its alot harder when u can do it consistent in lots of situations and not only after the same poke or string u use to flawless block reversal pokes. Just because u can flawless block for example after doing kabals f223 wich is -3 doesnt mean flawless blocking is easy in general. And flawless blocking jump ins is not easy, if u think it is show me your matches where u flawless block every jump in or atleast 75% of them if its so easy.
 
Sure flawless blocking after a string thats -3/-6 isnt hard, but its alot harder when u can do it consistent in lots of situations and not only after the same poke or string u use to flawless block reversal pokes. Just because u can flawless block for example after doing kabals f223 wich is -3 doesnt mean flawless blocking is easy in general. And flawless blocking jump ins is not easy, if u think it is show me your matches where u flawless block every jump in or atleast 75% of them if its so easy.
Doing it consistently against a player is definitely what separates a good player from a bad player especially online where ping is involved. Anyway I like the flawless block mechanic think there were some oversights in development but its unique and mechanic I hope is in future titles. I can do it consistently after back 3 or forward 4 with Kano otherwise all bets are off lol
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Sure flawless blocking after a string thats -3/-6 isnt hard, but its alot harder when u can do it consistent in lots of situations and not only after the same poke or string u use to flawless block reversal pokes. Just because u can flawless block for example after doing kabals f223 wich is -3 doesnt mean flawless blocking is easy in general. And flawless blocking jump ins is not easy, if u think it is show me your matches where u flawless block every jump in or atleast 75% of them if its so easy.
In a wakeup situation where a jump in is meaty it is a lot more likely to successfully flawless block. I think it's silly to try to flawless block all jump ins. I have specific times where I'll attempt a fb when being jumped on. Success rate in this situation gas nothing to do with easy or hard imo. It's literally just fishing.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Premium Supporter
In a wakeup situation where a jump in is meaty it is a lot more likely to successfully flawless block. I think it's silly to try to flawless block all jump ins. I have specific times where I'll attempt a fb when being jumped on. Success rate in this situation gas nothing to do with easy or hard imo. It's literally just fishing.
Some pro players can consistently flawless block jump ins tho, in any situation. Only a few of them can do it consistent like grrr for example. Not sure what you mean by "fishing".
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Some pro players can consistently flawless block jump ins tho, in any situation. Only a few of them can do it consistent like grrr for example. Not sure what you mean by "fishing".
If you know when they'll press then sure, it's not really hard at all. What I mean by fishing is that I just press block at specific times, not even necessarily knowing if it will work or not.

As far as jumps are concerned, I'd rather go for an anti air when I can. I dont even think it's worth doing fb u2 in a lot of cases.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Flawless blocking requires a read. Everything has an answer in this game and D2s are good anti airs. If I miss it, I'm late.

The only way I see this argument being valid is if you think flawless blocking is easy. Do you think it's easy to Flawless block?
To be quite honest its mad easy to flawless block jump ins, much easier than any other form of flb in game.

Of you crouch block and stand as you block, you will flawless block any air attack without miss input the lockout window.
 

Savage8-8

Premium
Premium Supporter
To be quite honest its mad easy to flawless block jump ins, much easier than any other form of flb in game.

Of you crouch block and stand as you block, you will flawless block any air attack without miss input the lockout window.
In training mode anything becomes easy to flawless block. If I know exactly what's coming it's not hard at all. What I feel people are ignoring is that in match it's not so easy. Not bc of the execution, but bc of the unpredictability of your opponent. All jumps aren't equal. The opponent can switch up the timing of the jump attack at will. And they can change what jump attack they do. That's where the difficulty is. If you are constantly getting your jump kicks/punches flawless blocked you are too predictable and are most likely jumping too much.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
It's not as hard to flawless block as some of you guys are making it out to be. Failed flawless blocks dont necessarily lead to getting hit. You can literally just fish for flawless blocks constantly. Obviously it can be used against you but that's fighting games.
 

Savage8-8

Premium
Premium Supporter
It's not as hard to flawless block as some of you guys are making it out to be. Failed flawless blocks dont necessarily lead to getting hit. You can literally just fish for flawless blocks constantly. Obviously it can be used against you but that's fighting games.
Again, the act of flawless blocking isn't hard. In order to successfully flawless block you have to time it right. Which also means that you have to know and read what your opponent's attack will be. That's the hard part. And if you fish for flawless blocks and fail then the oki pressure is still there. My argument is that people aren't consistently flawless blocking as much as the OP claims.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
In training mode anything becomes easy to flawless block. If I know exactly what's coming it's not hard at all. What I feel people are ignoring is that in match it's not so easy. Not bc of the execution, but bc of the unpredictability of your opponent. All jumps aren't equal. The opponent can switch up the timing of the jump attack at will. And they can change what jump attack they do. That's where the difficulty is. If you are constantly getting your jump kicks/punches flawless blocked you are too predictable and are most likely jumping too much.
There is no delaying an attack that is already coming out.
Its not a timed guard, you let the attack come out and you block as you stand, when their attack is active.

Switching time is irrelevant, delaying jump attacks makes them easier to AA.
Doing them earlier makes them harder to AA but easy to FLB.

Be wary that i'm not in agreement with OP's statement, but FLB isn't really that hard.
 

Savage8-8

Premium
Premium Supporter
Its not a timed guard, you let the attack come out and you block as you stand, when their attack is active.
By this logic every block should be a flawless block. In order to flawless block you have block with in 4 frames of the attack hitting you...how is that not a timed block?
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem

Took me less than a minute to get the timing down. . .take what you want from that.
This is most definitely not representative sicne this is practice mode. I can get the timing down for flawless blocking a jump in kick within 2 sec in practice mode. Put me in a game, it RARELY if ever comes out.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
This is most definitely not representative sicne this is practice mode. I can get the timing down for flawless blocking a jump in kick within 2 sec in practice mode. Put me in a game, it RARELY if ever comes out.
I simply brought the video into this thread to show how it's fairly easy to get the timing right on Flawless Blocking a string.

As far as getting Flawless Blocking against humans you have to be actively doing that like you would in Soul Calibur 6 for Just Guarding and that is separate from what I'm representing in the video.
 

Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
This isn’t just a shitshow - it’s ANOTHER shitshow.
In case the mods have forgotten, we have an existing thread that is for complaints & rants about MK11. All of these Chernyy droppings belong there.
Not once has any of his created threads sought to help players, enrich anyones experience of the game, or even make anyone laugh (intentionally). In his own words, he does not see the use in positivity.
These threads are nothing more than a loathsome, masturbatory endeavor that doesn’t invite problem-solving, won’t entertain the possibility of rebuttal, and quite frankly lessens this site.
Why his overwhelmingly negative threads haven’t been dismantled into the rant pile is a question only our overlords can answer.

“But Swindle” Chernyy may say, “ Top players agree..”
THE TOP PLAYERS HAVE LEFT THE BUILDING, mate. And why do you think that is? Too many positive, constructive, fun discussions about advancing tech, comparing tourney/online/casual experiences and good ol’ ribbing?
Or...
You know what? I like the game. A lot of people like the game. Many of us want it to succeed. We have gone to tourneys, helped build it up, supported those who keep hyping up the scene, cheer when we all succeed, and take pride in how far this franchise has come in a short decade.
Look back on all of your contributions. Is this what you want your legacy to be in the community? I hope not.
I want you to enjoy this game, or go find something you do enjoy. Because I’m an asshole with a heart full of rainbows.

In conclusion, FChamp’s a doody.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
This isn’t just a shitshow - it’s ANOTHER shitshow.
In case the mods have forgotten, we have an existing thread that is for complaints & rants about MK11. All of these Chernyy droppings belong there.
Not once has any of his created threads sought to help players, enrich anyones experience of the game, or even make anyone laugh (intentionally). In his own words, he does not see the use in positivity.
These threads are nothing more than a loathsome, masturbatory endeavor that doesn’t invite problem-solving, won’t entertain the possibility of rebuttal, and quite frankly lessens this site.
Why his overwhelmingly negative threads haven’t been dismantled into the rant pile is a question only our overlords can answer.

“But Swindle” Chernyy may say, “ Top players agree..”
THE TOP PLAYERS HAVE LEFT THE BUILDING, mate. And why do you think that is? Too many positive, constructive, fun discussions about advancing tech, comparing tourney/online/casual experiences and good ol’ ribbing?
Or...
You know what? I like the game. A lot of people like the game. Many of us want it to succeed. We have gone to tourneys, helped build it up, supported those who keep hyping up the scene, cheer when we all succeed, and take pride in how far this franchise has come in a short decade.
Look back on all of your contributions. Is this what you want your legacy to be in the community? I hope not.
I want you to enjoy this game, or go find something you do enjoy. Because I’m an asshole with a heart full of rainbows.

In conclusion, FChamp’s a doody.
The problem is any positivity is just ignoring the problem. The community improves by the game GETTING IMPROVED odes it not? We'll just have to agree to disagree here, positivity does NOT help this community or this game.