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The Flawless Block Jump In Change Made The Game Worse

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.

TL;DR, instead of giving us anti airs, NRS added this option in to buffer against the strength of jumps, but as with most of the sweeping changes in this game this had unforeseen negative consequences on the game as a whole AND didn't address the problem it stemmed from.
 

Savage8-8

Premium
Premium Supporter
Flawless blocking requires a read. Everything has an answer in this game and D2s are good anti airs. If I miss it, I'm late.

The only way I see this argument being valid is if you think flawless blocking is easy. Do you think it's easy to Flawless block?
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Honestly, for better or worse, this is the game we are stuck with. Maybe it’s best for everyone if you just stop playing it.

At this point it’s clear that NRS isn’t going to do anything completely meta-changing.
 

Agilaz

#ShangLivesMatter
Premium Supporter

Took me less than a minute to get the timing down. . .take what you want from that.
While I don't agree with Cherny's perspective on this, showcasing something like this in training mode doesn't mean much.

It's like when people say "just react to Sub's overhead bro"

Yeah, I can do it in training mode where I know I'll have to deal with low, OH, or throw because that's what I set an AI to do. In a real match, it's very different due to the myriad of other options your opponent will throw at you.

Jump attacks specifically are prone to this as well since obviously you can adjust the timing
 
"I'm already making a multi-layered read on this wakeup system, and now not only do I have to make a read on this multi-layered wakeup system, now that I've labbed this stuff and did the homework, you now have a way to take away my knockdown pressure."
- 5:48
"You now have to deal with the full brunt of the knockdown scenarios in this game, so now I HAVE to deal with forward roll, I HAVE to hard read back roll, I HAVE to deal with a hard read on U3 or U2. Really garbage change to the game, dude, it's such a garbage change."
- 6:35
So are you saying that having a single option to ignore every kind of wakeup by simply jumping is better for the game?
How are you making multi-layered reads by doing the same thing every time?
Aren't multi-layered reads a good thing?
 
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Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
So are you saying that having a single option to ignore every kind of wakeup by simply jumping is better for the game?
How are you making multi-layered reads by doing the same thing every time?
Aren't multi-layered reads a good thing?
I personally think FOR MY SUCCESS of already successfully hitting you, on top of more than likely taking a damage compromise/concession to ignore dealing with breakaway, the opponent does get too much freedom and flexibility on knockdown. You weren't OS-ing the ENTIRETY of the wakeup system, but you did cover multiple options. If wakeup buttons and wakeup jump weren't so viable, of course I'd feel differently. The problem is wakeup jump and buttons are hella empowered by the rest of the system.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Flawless blocking requires a read. Everything has an answer in this game and D2s are good anti airs. If I miss it, I'm late.

The only way I see this argument being valid is if you think flawless blocking is easy. Do you think it's easy to Flawless block?
I do. Most people who incorporate it as a common facet of their gameplay would tell you it's easy to do as well.

Also it doesn't require a read, the window is too big IMO. You can attempt the flawless block on the jump in and if you fuck it up you still get to block. There isn't really a risk in attempting to do this. You aren't doing the buffer, so your opponent can't bait this out by maybe doing an empty jump microduck.
 
Idc about the flawless block part, I despise the fact that I can buffer a grounded special to get a full combo every time, basically encouraging me to jump more.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
As I said in my video, I constantly play people who NEVER drop doing this. It's not hard.
As usual, you are exaggerating to promote an agenda. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that flawless blocking is easy. BioHazard, Deoxys, and Ninja Killa have been the most consistent flawless blockers in the community and even they mistime their flawless block attempts, which is normal given the small frame window.

Some players may claim that they dislike the game's up close meta of low poke, mid string, throw, or flawless block, which is a fair crticism. Nobody is forcing them to play and enjoy the game, though.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
man is complaining that his +2 now had become "+7 or...whatever". But I also don't like this fb change because it makes my brain feel like a train accident happened or something. It makes the game feel less smooth. Even if for balance purposes it was worse (which I highly doubt). I woulda rather had them add something like d2 is upperbody invinc for the 3 frames (2 before active frame) and make it the official aa.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
man is complaining that his +2 now had become "+7 or...whatever". But I also don't like this fb change because it makes my brain feel like a train accident happened or something. It makes the game feel less smooth. Even if for balance purposes it was worse (which I highly doubt). I woulda rather had them add something like d2 is upperbody invinc for the 3 frames (2 before active frame) and make it the official aa.
It's pretty ugly.

Also it isn't just +2, jump in into button becomes a mixup opportunity.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I was thinking the same thing as I watched this. The player who flawless blocks is rewarded and the other player must adapt his/her oki game. Seems logical
The problem is there is no solid oki game without this. The best option is always to give up your knockdown and reset neutral, even in the corner. This both limits character diversity and ONCE AGAIN, is one of the ways in which the game devalues successful decision making.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
As usual, you are exaggerating to promote an agenda. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that flawless blocking is easy. BioHazard, Deoxys, and Ninja Killa have been the most consistent flawless blockers in the community and even they mistime their flawless block attempts, which is normal given the small frame window.

Some players may claim that they dislike the game's up close meta of low poke, mid string, throw, or flawless block, which is a fair crticism. Nobody is forcing them to play and enjoy the game, though.
You have to prove I'm exaggerating Dave, which you will be unable to do.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Idc about the flawless block part, I despise the fact that I can buffer a grounded special to get a full combo every time, basically encouraging me to jump more.
I plan on making a video about the jump kick OS as well. It should be promptly removed along with other bugs like being able to input a flawless block as 2u to remove what was supposed to be the penalty for fishing, a forced jump.