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The Flawless Block Jump In Change Made The Game Worse

BlissfulMedusa

Modern Woefare
As usual, you are exaggerating to promote an agenda. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that flawless blocking is easy. BioHazard, Deoxys, and Ninja Killa have been the most consistent flawless blockers in the community and even they mistime their flawless block attempts, which is normal given the small frame window.

Some players may claim that they dislike the game's up close meta of low poke, mid string, throw, or flawless block, which is a fair crticism. Nobody is forcing them to play and enjoy the game, though.
Oh please, you calling someone out for exaggerating to push a narrative is beyond hypocritical. Need we remind you of the shitshow that was your Deathstoke fiasco?

And @Chernyy Volk who are these godlike players you fight against that never miss the FB input and punish every one of your jump in attempts? I’m sure we’d love to see it in action if you can scrape together enough footage of yourself between all the rage quitting.
 
Why we always hating on cherny lol, I like some of his perspectives and I don't want to say shit to rile up people, but the wake up system in this game is broken makes oki almost non existant and encourages scrub tactics.
 
Ahhhh I see Cherny Sulk is posting again... glad that neckbeards have something to entertain themselves with during the pandemic
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Cherny would get way less flak if he made a rule for himself : Only 2 consecutive videos that say game is garbage annd then has to make a video that has something positive to say about mk11. Even if its just like 11 seconds long explaining a scorpion flow chart. At this point I almost want to make a video titled "man hates game but plays it for over 300 days and makes 200 videos about how much he is wasting his time playing said game" lol :D
 

YoungTeezy 305

Work Hard Play Hard
The problem is there is no solid oki game without this. The best option is always to give up your knockdown and reset neutral, even in the corner. This both limits character diversity and ONCE AGAIN, is one of the ways in which the game devalues successful decision making.
You are right about this game not allowing a solid oki game. The defender has so many options to wake up with. Imo, NRS wanted to cater to the defensive player more in this game.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
You are right about this game not allowing a solid oki game. The defender has so many options to wake up with. Imo, NRS wanted to cater to the defensive player more in this game.
I completely and totally disagree. Defense in this game is not good in the sense it's completely weak BEFORE you get knocked down or hit. Block punishment and whiff punishment are weakened by breakaway, the game is driven by offense that in of itself has no risk attached to it and requires the defender to risk life and limb to get their turn back. What you're talking about is the game diminishing the consequences of making a mistake, while empowering offense. This is the game of second, third, fourth and fifth chances.

Basically, standing/neutral defense in this game was gutted to backload all the defensive power into AFTER someone has made a successful decision or read.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Btw. there's a trick as old as fighting games dealing with people trying to fb your jumpin crossup on wakeup: Empty jump low.
Empty jump low does not work. I think you're thinking of someone trying to do an U2 or an U3 (which if you try to empty jump low btw, you still get anti aired). There is no way to actually blow up somebody who just wants to shut down your offensive from the jump.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Oh please, you calling someone out for exaggerating to push a narrative is beyond hypocritical. Need we remind you of the shitshow that was your Deathstoke fiasco?

And @Chernyy Volk who are these godlike players you fight against that never miss the FB input and punish every one of your jump in attempts? I’m sure we’d love to see it in action if you can scrape together enough footage of yourself between all the rage quitting.
I'm really not trying to be condescnding here but you clearly didn't watch the video if you're even asking this question. This isn't about punishing jump ins, it's about the opposing player now being able to shut down the last form of reliable oki left in the game AND they don't have to commit to any resources to do so.

Also I don't know how this is still persisting on TYM that I'm a rage quitter. This is a wives tale that you guys are obsessed with at this point.
 

YoungTeezy 305

Work Hard Play Hard
I completely and totally disagree. Defense in this game is not good in the sense it's completely weak BEFORE you get knocked down or hit. Block punishment and whiff punishment are weakened by breakaway, the game is driven by offense that in of itself has no risk attached to it and requires the defender to risk life and limb to get their turn back. What you're talking about is the game diminishing the consequences of making a mistake, while empowering offense. This is the game of second, third, fourth and fifth chances.

Basically, standing/neutral defense in this game was gutted to backload all the defensive power into AFTER someone has made a successful decision or read.
.
I see your point about minimal risk for going ham when you have breakaways, but breakaways themselves are defensive tools - not offensive. Flawless blocking, armoured breakaways, and the wake up options make the defensive options in this game much stronger than other NRS games.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I see your point about minimal risk for going ham when you have breakaways, but breakaways themselves are defensive tools - not offensive. Flawless blocking, armoured breakaways, and the wake up options make the defensive options in this game much stronger than other NRS games.
Difference of perspective I guess. I don't look at this as good defensive options, I just think this is NRS's way of casualizing the game and crunching the gap between mid levels and the 1%. This game is less chess and more speed checkers.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
Why we always hating on cherny lol, I like some of his perspectives and I don't want to say shit to rile up people, but the wake up system in this game is broken makes oki almost non existant and encourages scrub tactics.
Genuinely curious here, what's broken about the wakeup system in MK11?
 

Wigy

There it is...
Genuinely curious here, what's broken about the wakeup system in MK11?
For half the cast the defender has way to good options on the floor.

meatys are very difficult and you basically have to make a read on three different timings.

Jumps are really jank in this game and most characters string will whiff and drop most of the time if you catch them jumping, mix rollout in and you get punished for it.

its like 8 options on the floor with bar.

theres also a gaping disparity on good meaty strings between the cast.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
For half the cast the defender has way to good options on the floor.

meatys are very difficult and you basically have to make a read on three different timings.

Jumps are really jank in this game and most characters string will whiff and drop most of the time if you catch them jumping, mix rollout in and you get punished for it.

its like 8 options on the floor with bar.

theres also a gaping disparity on good meaty strings between the cast.
The majority of those options are punishable, though -- which is why in higher-level play you most often see either wakeup block, or taking a risk on a normal, sometimes delay.

Most good players use a fairly limited set of wakeup options except in certain very specific situations.
 

Wigy

There it is...
The majority of those options are punishable, though -- which is why in higher-level play you most often see either wakeup block, or taking a risk on a normal, sometimes delay.

Most good players use a fairly limited set of wakeup options except in certain very specific situations.
there is a shit tonne of wakeup buttons at the pro level.

in my opinion there is too many occasions from my own experience and watching tournaments people are able to weasel of blocking on knockdown.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
there is a shit tonne of wakeup buttons at the pro level.

in my opinion there is too many occasions from my own experience and watching tournaments people are able to weasel of blocking on knockdown.
Mostly normals though -- not options that are making use of 'the wakeup system'.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
The majority of those options are punishable, though -- which is why in higher-level play you most often see either wakeup block, or taking a risk on a normal, sometimes delay.

Most good players use a fairly limited set of wakeup options except in certain very specific situations.
And most of those top players would tell you that this wakeup system is still absurd because the problem is, it's the one time you do something besides give up your knockdown back to neutral that you end up getting rolled on into hit confirm into fatal blow into GG's from 50% life. This wakeup system diminishes the reward of winning neutral or punishing. Now mind you, I like rolls, but wakeup jump being viable due to the insane amount of I-frames on getup, wakeup buttons, on top of U2's and U3's, it just feels like YOU'RE getting mixed up because you had success instead of you being rewarded for success more often than not.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I disagree. While I hate the wakeup system in this game I don‘t think an option that beats the Majority of wakeup options should only have counterplay when you have resources for a reversal u2/u3. I would Definitely agree to your point if a jump attack would be full combo punishable after a flawless block but with the possibility to pre buffer strings after jump punch’s and OS specials after jump kicks your risk/reward ratio is already through the roof since you only lose your turn at worst if they don‘t have the resources. As I said I don‘t like the Wakeup system either but I don‘t think that‘s the change they should go for.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Mostly normals though -- not options that are making use of 'the wakeup system'.
Tbh 90% of the time wake up buttons with different timings and wakeup roll Is the only thing you need. All the other options just add to the mix which makes this system kind of a mess
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I disagree. While I hate the wakeup system in this game I don‘t think an option that beats the Majority of wakeup options should only have counterplay when you have resources for a reversal u2/u3. I would Definitely agree to your point if a jump attack would be full combo punishable after a flawless block but with the possibility to pre buffer strings after jump punch’s and OS specials after jump kicks your risk/reward ratio is already through the roof since you only lose your turn at worst if they don‘t have the resources. As I said I don‘t like the Wakeup system either but I don‘t think that‘s the change they should go for.
"I disagree. While I hate the wakeup system in this game I don‘t think an option that beats the Majority of wakeup options should only have counterplay when you have resources for a reversal u2/u3."

This is exactly how it should be because it would add some resource management to the game. What's wrong with that? You'd have to make the choice when thinking about this.
 

exflyingbooty

This dream has a sad ending
This game is just bad. Just stop playing it and go to either injustice 2/1 or mkx/9. Nobody is gonna fault you for it.
 

xKMMx

Noob
The majority of those options are punishable, though -- which is why in higher-level play you most often see either wakeup block, or taking a risk on a normal, sometimes delay.

Most good players use a fairly limited set of wakeup options except in certain very specific situations.
Dude I appreciate you trying to be positive here but IM sorry the wake up options are way too good and reward the defensive player with way too much. And I see a lot of wake ups in tourney's