The End of Execution for Mortal Kombat? Podcast Discussion.

[M2Dave]

hitting an extra command to ex a move doesn't add anything to a competitive player because it functions the exact same way as just the 1 button command. so why not use this as an opportunity to streamline a system to make it more intuitive without sacrificing depth for the competitive community.

I agree. My perspective has progressed. On the next episode of the podcast I will be arguing for an "accessible mode" with one button special moves, combos, and fatalities for you and other casual gamers alike while "competitive / tournament mode" would necessitate traditional, or more complex, inputs for high level players.

Also, the adjective "accessible" has been carefully selected as not to carry a negative connotation as "easy" or "simple" would do. So as you are mashing buttons and performing 50% combos that you see Sonic Fox perform in "competitive / tournament mode", you and the other 93 casual gamers who voted "yes" in the poll can feel a sense of accomplish and dignity. Everybody wins with this system in place.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I agree. My perspective has progressed. On the next episode of the podcast I will be arguing for an "accessible mode" with one button special moves, combos, and fatalities for you and other casual gamers alike while "competitive / tournament mode" would necessitate traditional, or more complex, inputs for high level players.

Also, the adjective "accessible" has been carefully selected as not to carry a negative connotation as "easy" or "simple" would do. So as you are mashing buttons and performing 50% combos that you see Sonic Fox perform in "competitive / tournament mode", you and the other 93 casual gamers who voted "yes" in the poll can feel a sense of accomplish and dignity. Everybody wins with this system in place.

I voted "yes" and I don't need that "sense of accomplishment and dignity", and not a system of one button in everything for NRS/WB games. I voted "yes" because both options are good each in their own way, and if NRS wouldn't have change it then it wouldn't matter, so now that they did change that, then it indeed doesn't matter. I would be perfectly fine either way as either option would be fine.

Again generalizing people. That is just wrong dude.

 

[Baconlord]

I voted "yes" and I don't need that "sense of accomplishment and dignity", and not a system of one button in everything for NRS/WB games. I voted "yes" because both options are good each in their own way, and if NRS wouldn't have change it then it wouldn't matter, so now that they did change that, then it indeed doesn't matter. I would be perfectly fine either way as either option would be fine.

Again generalizing people. That is just wrong dude.

I wouldn't take it personal lol. After all of podcasts with m2dave I've listened to I'd honestly be surprised if he wasn't calling us all scrubs.

 

[Corruption100]

You know dave really sounded like he was going to say something civil lmfao. Still gotta throw those pot shots in there. Really don't see how changing one input makes someone a casual dave lmao. Most people will be able to do optimal combos after a while with their character whether you have to press bumper or a face button. Maybe it'd be different if something like mkx instant air fireballs(which ive heard can be tough) became one button, but it's not even close to that degree of a change.

This whole thing is getting silly. Noone should be attacking people to argue their points.

I do want to pose a question. Is dbfz a fighting game for casuals? Learning combos was fairly simple and defensive options weren't necessarily hard input wise despite being my first anime fighter. However the neutral, wakeup defense, and even proper offensive pressure were not easy for me to learn. I learned a bunch from losing, but still probably wasn't more than average in skill level, if that.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I wouldn't take it personal lol. After all of podcasts with m2dave I've listened to I'd honestly be surprised if he wasn't calling us all scrubs.

There is a difference between having a friendly trash talk and being just straight-out condescending and making false statements on people. But yeah I kinda figured out what is it with Dave. I will stop here because I don't wanna go off topic too much.

 

[Rearawt]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, what specials have inputs like strings? Stances? Or do you mean the alternative/varying meter burn inputs.

I mean under the scrapped unique amplify system. What's the functional difference between inputting f1b2 for a string and df1b2 for an amplified special that means the former mechanic is fine, but the latter "arbitrary and has no purpose or depth"?

 

[spidey300]

every single person on this site was at one point a casual. if you want to grow a community you embrace them and show them why the should take the game more seriously and be a part of the community. and there is a big difference between making a system easier and making a system more intuitive. hitting an extra command to ex a move doesn't add anything to a competitive player because it functions the exact same way as just the 1 button command. so why not use this as an opportunity to streamline a system to make it more intuitive without sacrificing depth for the competitive community.

nah there's no show them anything and there's no community. I learned what I know just through watching tournaments, video research, and just playing. it's basically just turning specials into strings.

 

[SinkFla]

Personally, I really wanted to at least be able to try to the new inputs. Not because it affects the difficulty of the execution any (it doesn't), but because it seemed like a unique take on extending combo strings/combos. I don't see how they're any harder than just doing any other string? With that said, suggesting that people who didn't like the extra inputs are scrubs has me laughing me ass off. Look at all these goddamn evo top 8 skrubs gettin rekt by their kontrollers

 

[BarakaTile]

Well what's done is done. Whether you like it or not this was a change that was bound to happen and big surprise the majority of people are in favor of it. Even Ed Boon said it wasn't final right after the gameplay reveal.

And while I wouldn't be opposed to this, You'd better hope they add that back as an option in the controller menu.

Otherwise an elite player like you will be forced to come down off your pedestal and roll around in the mud with the rest of us scrubs.

 

[M2Dave]

Is dbfz a fighting game for casuals?

I don't play the game competitively so I can't comment, but I have seen complaints about the game's easy execution and lack of character complexity. The numbers of tournament participants for DBFZ's have also decreased, including for this year's Evolution, which suggests that players may be getting bored. However, players may simply be responding and choosing not to enter because of what happened with the game in a handful of tournaments.

 

[deathblooms2k4]

I don't play the game competitively so I can't comment, but I have seen complaints about the game's easy execution and lack of character complexity. The numbers of tournament participants for DBFZ's have also decreased, including for this year's Evolution, which suggests that players may be getting bored. However, players may simply be responding and choosing not to enter because of what happened with the game in a handful of tournaments.

You come off as someone grasping at straws to stay relevant in games you can't compete in anymore. It's easier for the ego to justify performance based on the premise "the game was designed for casuals, it's a joke!" than it is to accept the fact that's there's layers of depth you struggle to master.

When you're engineering controls for anything it only makes sense to do it in such a way where effort is minimal for accomplishing the tasks you'd like to complete. You don't design an excavator with DP inputs to lift the shovel. The only way having universal inputs objectively lowers the games depth is if they remove moves and actions from the game. If they were like we hate the execution for fireball so instead of having it we're removing fireballs you all would have a leg to stand on. However, this is not what's happening. You have the same options it's just easier to execute which again if you truly are elite and competitive it's a non factor since everyone at that level could/can execute at that level regardless of game design.

You've got to look at these things and truly ask yourself. Does this add actual depth to the game or is it just arbitrary memorization that's trivial and doesn't really add any significant depth to the game play.

Now I'd argue REO's suggestion of having the old inputs with additional moves in addition to the new would indeed add more options and depth to the game. But if we're making a direct comparison of old to new, the options have neither increased nor decreased so it really doesn't change much outside of being intelligent design.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

If they never added this different way of doing amplified moves then nobody would've complained about it. Why are we now?

 

[deathblooms2k4]

If they never added this different way of doing amplified moves then nobody would've complained about it. Why are we now?

Gotta be controversially vocal to stay relevant if tourny results aren't doing it for you.

 

[Kroaken]

If they never added this different way of doing amplified moves then nobody would've complained about it. Why are we now?

Because they did... Hypotheticals don't really add much to the conversation. I can only speak for myself, but I had just never thought of it before. And then they announced it and it sounded cool/interesting. I would have at least liked to have had the opportunity to try it before they cut it.

 

[M2Dave]

Gotta be controversially vocal to stay relevant if tourny results aren't doing it for you.

What tournament results? I have not attended an offline tournament since Injustice 1 and I am not going to quit a well-paying job with great benefits to play Mortal Kombat 11 eight hours a day and prove myself to a casual gamer on an online forum. I am a voice on many podcasts because people ask me to be. I am not politically correct and I genuinely say what is on my mind. I know my speech offends many scrubs like you, but I could not careless. I will continue doing what I do.

 

[M.D.]

What's a scrub?

 

[Dirtylova]

What tournament results? I have not attended an offline tournament since Injustice 1 and I am not going to quit a well-paying job with great benefits to play Mortal Kombat 11 eight hours a day and prove myself to a casual gamer on an online forum. I am a voice on many podcasts because people ask me to be. I am not politically correct and I genuinely say what is on my mind. I know my speech offends many scrubs like you, but I could not careless. I will continue doing what I do.

I love you.

 

[wsj515]

I mean under the scrapped unique amplify system. What's the functional difference between inputting f1b2 for a string and df1b2 for an amplified special that means the former mechanic is fine, but the latter "arbitrary and has no purpose or depth"?

You're right, functionally the systems are very similar. It's the decision to change enhance into something requiring slightly more memorization that is arbitrary and pointless, because it does nothing. Adding new mechanics that promote higher execution and game knowledge like flawless block are great, and whether you liked the mechanic or not, running in MKX was a mechanic that had massive impact on how that game played. Changing how specials are enhanced has zero impact on the game outside of casuals being confused, because a legacy input is now different. The change does nothing to how the game is played, its the same mechanic it has always been, just different inputs.

 

[wsj515]

On the next episode of the podcast I will be arguing for an "accessible mode" with one button special moves, combos, and fatalities for you and other casual gamers alike while "competitive / tournament mode" would necessitate traditional, or more complex, inputs for high level players.

I can't tell if you are being facetious, but I think one button combos, etc. are a bad idea. So much of what I think makes NRS games so appealing to casuals are how tactile and tangible they are. Part of what lends to those feelings are the strings (and combos), and how their inputs 99% of the time directly translate to character actions. They have weight and are satisfying - why would someone want to hit a button and watch their character perform a cinematic with no interactivity? Strings are easy enough to perform, no need to simplify further.

I can see how this could seem hypocritical towards my thoughts on the MB input changes, as the unique inputs could have added to that feeling of inputs translating to character action. But, if the inputs had gone live as they were, they wouldn't have been a positive change, they would have been a change for change's sake with no measurable impact on the competitive scene and the game's meta. NRS could have made them more interesting by giving characters the ability to MB specials in multiple ways for different effects, and that would have added depth, but that's basically just giving every character stances. Having too many stances would make specials start to just feel like glorified strings, and I think having a strong distinction between specials and strings is important.

 

[Kroaken]

I can't tell if you are being facetious, but I think one button combos, etc. are a bad idea. So much of what I think makes NRS games so appealing to casuals are how tactile and tangible they are. Part of what lends to those feelings are the strings (and combos), and how their inputs 99% of the time directly translate to character actions. They have weight and are satisfying - why would someone want to hit a button and watch their character perform a cinematic with no interactivity? Strings are easy enough to perform, no need to simplify further.

I can see how this could seem hypocritical towards my thoughts on the MB input changes, as the unique inputs could have added to that feeling of inputs translating to character action. But, if the inputs had gone live as they were, they wouldn't have been a positive change, they would have been a change for change's sake with no measurable impact on the competitive scene and the game's meta. NRS could have made them more interesting by giving characters the ability to MB specials in multiple ways for different effects, and that would have added depth, but that's basically just giving every character stances. Having too many stances would make specials start to just feel like glorified strings, and I think having a strong distinction between specials and strings is important.

Points for self awareness.