The End of Execution for Mortal Kombat? Podcast Discussion.

[M2Dave]

Description

MikeMetroid joins the podcast to discuss the Johnny Cage trailer while Tom Brady goes on a memorable rant about the simplified inputs for amplified special moves.

Time Stamps

00:29 - Initial impressions of Johnny Cage (MikeMetroid opines)
07:40 - The humongous character leaks (ethical implications of leaking and comments on characters)
13:41 - The changed inputs for amplified moves (opinions, debates, and fools of Test Your Might)
23:33 - Execution barriers in Mortal Kombat 11... or lack thereof (Tom's "instant classic" rant)
47:54 - Zyphox is giving out beta codes (???)

Video

As always, any feedback is welcome.

Thank you for listening.

@HellblazerHawkman , front page please.

 

[MagicMan357]

Get ready for the same cycle

*in 5 months* you know injustice 2 is better than mk11, fuck this game!

 

[Baconlord]

I get that you guys are arguing about setting a precedent but I think this is a bad example. I don't think the old amplify inputs add any real depth to the game it's just 10 extra minutes learning inputs in training mode. also I have enough faith in nrs to think that they didn't just make this change because people were whining. I'm sure that if they really thought the old system was the best way to go they would have just stick with it. I'm sure that both the qa and design team agreed that this was a better direction to go in.

 

[xWildx]

Ok, even the title seems a bit dramatic.

 

[M2Dave]

I presume people will argue about the inputs of amplified moves in this thread, and I purposely created a publicly visible poll to identify the scrubs.

However, someone in this community must speak up about the apparent lack of Rain in this game. Look at the results of this poll on Event Hubs. Just yesterday I saw ignorant comments on various status updates about Rain having no fans. Apologize. Every single one of you.

 

[Gamer68]

It's funny because if NRS never experimented with the new inputs, literally no one would have cared. You wouldn't have had people requesting unique inputs or anything. But they did and now that it's back to the old input we know and love, it's "The end of execution for Mortal Kombat"

Not saying that there aren't good points here or that NRS isn't simplifying the game too much in other areas, but I don't think this is a good example at all.

 

[Law Hero]

Great podcast as usual, and congrats on finishing on time.

Before I add my two cents, I'd like to mention that I am in agreement that execution barriers have their uses and benefits in fighting games, and they can certainly add to the entertainment, satisfaction, and hype of a game.

That aside, I think people are blowing the amplify situation way out of proportion, and I think the main reason is the term "simplified inputs" is a loaded word that doesn't accurately describe what's been occurring. The original method of amplifying wasn't some complex set of inputs or a just-frame or anything. It was simply a different command to amplify each move (mashing a button or pressing a direction and button instead of a shoulder button). It'll take you all of five minutes to learn them, and there is no execution barrier there. I do believe the "simplified inputs" take away from the uniqueness of each character, but that's it. The game is hardly harmed by the change, though I do see it as a negative.

Lastly, although I'm a huge Tom Brady fan, I disagree with his critique of the universal wakeup system. I think NRS games have been in desperate need of a more balanced wakeup system, and a universal one is a good idea. One has only to look at Tekken to see the benefits of it, and I support the change. The only thing I dislike is the invincible one, but I'll wait until the game comes out before judging that.

Oh yeah, and if any characters deserve to make it in the game after MKX, it's Rain and Sindel. Keep up the great work, guys.

 

[MadPropz101]

I honestly can't believe you or anyone else supports different inputs for amplified moves. It's not like it's hard to do and suddenly makes you a god of execution and better than the rest, it's just a nuisance that makes you fill your brain with more rubbish instead of actually focusing on the stuff that matters.

 

[Baconlord]

I'm personally a fan of the new wakeup mechanic mainly because it get's rid of the quan chi archetype of a character that has od zoning, od rushdown, od setplay, od neutral but if you knock him down he's dead. that's such a boring design imo and I'm glad to see them going in a direction were wakeup attacks don't define a character as much. also there's nothing wrong with having universal mechanics. hell ark systems games are crazy popular right now and they're full of these universal systems

 

[Evil Canadian]

I presume people will argue about the inputs of amplified moves in this thread, and I purposely created a publicly visible poll to identify the scrubs.

Yeah if you vote no, you are a scrub.

 

[Evil Canadian]

lol "i hit up and triangle instead of the interact button to do scorpions ex spear, this makes me a highly technical player" get the fuck out of here jesus christ

anyone who supports the old input system is broke brain and you can easily dumpster their opinion.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I thought it was a great idea, but not because of execution. I'm just in favor of anything new that makes the experience feel unique. Especially after the banality of IJ2.

 

[Baconlord]

i'll be honest I'm kind of bummed that they changed it before the beta but that's just because I thought the novelty of mashing 3 to extend chop chop was kind of funny. but there's no depth in the mechanic because there's nothing more to it then just executing the move, it doesn't add a new way to use the system or any mind games.

 

[M2Dave]

I honestly can't believe you or anyone else supports different inputs for amplified moves. It's not like it's hard to do and suddenly makes you a god of execution and better than the rest, it's just a nuisance that makes you fill your brain with more rubbish instead of actually focusing on the stuff that matters.

If they were not difficult to do, why did NRS change the inputs "based on feedback" on social media? I know the reason. Casual gamers.

And again for the 100th time, nobody is arguing the difficult inputs would have turned Mortal Kombat 11 into the next Virtua Fighter, but the idea was a step into the right direction in terms of the game being more difficult to play, even if this difficulty involved mere memorization. Besides, Tekken 7 has a plethora of memorization, yet the game is universally acclaimed as one of the best fighting games in recent times.

 

[Eldriken]

Maybe NRS will do everyone a favor and include it as an option to enable.

 

[Gerchap]

Great podcast Guys, I’m at minute 28 and had to stop but I’ll resume after dinner lol

Interesting points and Brady had a good input when it comes to making the game a bit easier or more complex. Can’t wait to finish it

 

[Espio]

The biggest problem I have is that I heard next to nobody complain about one button enhanced moves for the last three games.

The poll is problematic because it's a this or that and I PERSONALLY don't care which one we get because it isn't going to change anything for how much or little I play the game. It's just not that serious and it's not going to make or break anything.

I've heard some good points, but nobody legitimately is that pressed about this stuff. It's pseudo execution that isn't going to make people play the game longer. People continue to play games because they like the mind games, strategies etc.

Checkers and chess aren't played prominently because it takes a whole lot of time to learn the basics and be able to play them. It's the nuances, mind games and strategies that make them staple games.


If the roster is balanced properly, the "counterpick meta" wouldn't even be a big deal.

I'm looking forward to being labelled as scrubby when I don't care which one we get whether the old or new amplify moves.

 

[HaHaSoGood]

Like any of you guys besides reo used high execution characters anyway

 

[TackyHaddock]

Amplify inputs aside, cancels require execution and we know that cancels are not eliminated in this game...

 

[Baconlord]

Like any of you guys besides reo used high execution characters anyway

that's a tad bit more aggressive then the situation calls for don't you think

 

[Bloodfang]

The poll needs an "I'm indifferent because there is no real difference in reality between old or new. Neither is simplified or advanced or whatever. Neither will separate the 'L33TZ' from the 'filthy casuals'. M2Dave just needs a platform on which to stand while he insanely raves about how 'filthy casual scum don't deserve to play the same games as ME so tell them that MK11 wasn't made for their kind!'" Option. Yeah.. that was too much to put in the poll wasn't it? Guess I can't vote 'cause there is no truth or logic here just Elitist supremacy rants at their worst.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I get that you guys are arguing about setting a precedent but I think this is a bad example. I don't think the old amplify inputs add any real depth to the game it's just 10 extra minutes learning inputs in training mode. also I have enough faith in nrs to think that they didn't just make this change because people were whining. I'm sure that if they really thought the old system was the best way to go they would have just stick with it. I'm sure that both the qa and design team agreed that this was a better direction to go in.

Then why didn’t they make it an option?

I don’t care about how easy or hard the execution would be, I care about game feel.

The liked the idea of having my special moves be contextually consistent with my inputs. If a special move amplifies into a grab I want to be able to do it by pressing grab. It’s exactly why combos and strings and special state cancels in Tekken feel so damn good. Why regular strings in NRS games feel good compared to 1,1,1,1 in DBFZ.

It’s honestly baffling they REMOVED the ability to play this way, because they could have just made the stance switch button amplify AND allowed the new inputs to work. There is no overlap there.

The fact that they didn’t at least let us try it in the beta is even more upsetting because all of the people kneejerking didn’t get a chance to actually feel it out hands on.

—

Also execution wouldn’t have even been effected. People on both sides arguing about execution difficulty seem ridiculous to me because all the fucking inputs we saw were so easy a toddler could do and understand them. Oh wow the character does a punch attack when you amplify it so hit 2, real rocket science brain surgery gameplay right there.

 

[Baconlord]

Then why didn’t they make it an option?

I don’t care about how easy or hard the execution would be, I care about game feel.

The liked the idea of having my special moves be contextually consistent with my inputs. If a special move amplifies into a grab I want to be able to do it by pressing grab. It’s exactly why combos and string and special state cancels in Tekken feel so damn good.

It’s honestly baffling they REMOVED the ability to play this way, because they could have just made the stance switch button amplify AND allowed the new inputs to work. There is no overlap there.

The fact that they didn’t at least let us try it in the beta is even more upsetting because all of the people kneejerking didn’t get a chance to actually feel it out hands on.

—

Also execution wouldn’t have even been effected. People on both sides arguing about execution difficulty seem ridiculous to me because all the fucking inputs we saw were so easy a toddler could do and understand them. Oh wow the character does a punch attack when you amplify it so hit 2, real rocket science brain surgery gameplay right there.

100% agree I would of loved to mess around with these inputs. my argument is more that this change isn't really reflective of the problem they were addressing in the podcast

 

[haketh]

Like any of you guys besides reo used high execution characters anyway

TBF while he wasn’t Kabal Tier Dave did play Freddy who had some tricky stuff due to stance cancel

This whole Amplified thing is so silly, while the original method seemed kinda fun going back to a unified button isn’t a big deal. Theirs not really anything interesting or impressive about someone knowing al the Amplify inputs.

 

[Gamer68]

And again for the 100th time, nobody is arguing the difficult inputs would have turned Mortal Kombat 11 into the next Virtua Fighter, but the idea was a step into the right direction in terms of the game being more difficult to play, even if this difficulty involved mere memorization.

I don't think that the game being more difficult = it's taking a step in the right direction. Isn't the entire point of NRS games is the fact that they are simple to play? Like don't get me wrong, I don't want to see them become too simple -- just that they stay the same. That's part of the reason why I wanted the universal Amplify input to be a thing, because that's how it was done in past games and there wasn't really a reason to change it.

As for unique Amplify inputs being a step in the right direction specifically, I disagree with that also. If NRS were to make their games deeper and more difficult I would want them to achieve that by giving characters more moves and things like that, not by adding unnecessary inputs.