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General/Other - Shinnok The Downplayers of Bone Shaper Shinnok

By this logic, any tourney Zod and Batgirl didn't make Top 8 when Pig and Fox weren't there was proof that the characters were overrated.
Wound and Mustard are dedicated high level Bone Shaper Shinnok players and they attended Evo. There were many other good players playing him in this tournament. If anything this thread was created to point out how the fact that all BS Shinnoks did well in pools is a testament to him being broken. According to that same logic the fact that none of them even the ones who placed at evo before have made Top 8 is a testament to the character being balanced.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
NRS did a pretty good job with Tanya, as evidenced by the fact that she still made Top 8. Quan Chi was touched, but is still good, D'Vorah was touched but still makes Top 8, and Erron Black, etc.

It seems like everything has been done well -- I don't understand this point about people quitting due to the adjustments or NRS ruining the game. They've been handling things fine so far.
The only people who complain are people who don't play the game. It's obvious that the majority of the Capcom crowd doesn't like MK simply because it's not made by Capcom so all they do is bitch about the game and say it's dead due to "overpatching" without even looking at the benefits that the patches have.

I know someone will quote me and say that this is bullshit and I'm making things up, but I've been apart of Capcom scene for over the last year and I've seen how they treat other games. Of course there all cool people like Spooky, Funkdoc, and Arturo who try to convince others to give the game a chance but the majority of the Capcom scene have already made their mind up.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
@General M2Dave how many Bone Shapers are there in top 8?? Exactly ! And you can't say there weren't enough of them for at least one to make top 8 if he is really broken. Character is very much beatable and high level players worthy of evo top 8 know how it is done!
Apologize!
If I had said that Shinnok was broken or unbeatable, I would apologize. Besides, players like Cowboy, DetroitBalln, and D. R. will place top 8 at a major off-line event sooner than later so you will look like a fool.

Also, as I have said before, this thread is not an attack on the character. Bone Shaper Shinnok is a top tier zoning character who is one of my primary characters. This thread is a criticism of Shinnok players who believe he is a mid tier character (i.e., Cowboy) and those who have the pretentious, self-aggrandizing, and aberrational attitude of believing only they have the solution to Shinnok's dominant gameplay (i.e., namely D. R. and Juggs).
 

Defenestrator

I do windows
Hopefully when the patch cycle ends folks will concentrate on tech, consolidated combo and character guide threads.
But the tier list and matchup arguments will ensue in full force,
not to mention the Quixotic buff/nerf petitions when its obvious patching has ended.

P.S. Smoke rules, Freddy drools.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
You can't really use the "this character isn't in top 8" argument, because look at who was making top 8 at EVO this year. I don't think Reptile is a better character than Shinnok, but he's there (that's not downplaying, I promise...Reptile is a lot better than people make him out to be IMO). Also, where's Cassie, Jax, Sonya, etc? But you go to top 16, and there's two Bone Shapers...and then an Ermac and Mileena. This tournament had a ton of people who could take home the glory. It doesn't always pan out that way, though. Do tournament standings have anything to do with it? Yes. Does EVO also possess pretty much the most competition of any major tournament in the world, making it impossible to seed and place players in ways where they didn't run into another seeded player early on? You betcha.

That being said, Shinnok is a very powerful character, whether top 5 or top 10 or whatever.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
He definitely doesn't need Tanya level nerfs just tweak dark beam, that's literally all he needs adjusted.
I disagree. I don't think that's really the answer as to what needs changed. I think the hellspark MB is what really needs to be looked at. +14 from +24 is definitely nerfed, but you can still do guaranteed chip damage loops, which is a problem in itself just because it opens up a lot of pressure because you literally can't do anything. Characters don't need guaranteed chip damage strings like that.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Wound and Mustard are dedicated high level Bone Shaper Shinnok players and they attended Evo. There were many other good players playing him in this tournament. If anything this thread was created to point out how the fact that all BS Shinnoks did well in pools is a testament to him being broken. According to that same logic the fact that none of them even the ones who placed at evo before have made Top 8 is a testament to the character being balanced.
No. Cowboy has been through three characters already, and just started playing Shinnok a few weeks ago. I don't know about Mustard. Which is my point.

Most of these Shinnok's still are learning the character. Fox wasn't dominating anything with Batgirl her first month and neither was Pig his first month. They hadn't caught up to the curve yet. It didn't make the characters any less powerful, just the time needed to catch up did.

The only difference between now and 4-5-6 months from now is that "all those Shinnok's" will turn into "all those Shinnok's keep placing every tourney".
 
No. Cowboy has been through three characters already, and just started playing Shinnok a few weeks ago. I don't know about Mustard. Which is my point.

Most of these Shinnok's still are learning the character. Fox wasn't dominating anything with Batgirl her first month and neither was Pig his first month. They hadn't caught up to the curve yet. It didn't make the characters any less powerful, just the time needed to catch up did.

The only difference between now and 4-5-6 months from now is that "all those Shinnok's" will turn into "all those Shinnok's keep placing every tourney".
Wound has been playing Shinnok at least for month and a half now since Shinnok has got his first buffs. And Mustard played him since day one!
The rest of what you said is stupid, I guess I can start " Oh look at all those Cassies, Cages, Sonyas etc who we have seen a lot of" they will sure be placing in 4-5-6 month. They just hadn't caught up to the curve yet. WTF people?! Just admit you were wrong when you are wrong.
 
If I had said that Shinnok was broken or unbeatable, I would apologize. Besides, players like Cowboy, DetroitBalln, and D. R. will place top 8 at a major off-line event sooner than later so you will look like a fool.

Also, as I have said before, this thread is not an attack on the character. Bone Shaper Shinnok is a top tier zoning character who is one of my primary characters. This thread is a criticism of Shinnok players who believe he is a mid tier character (i.e., Cowboy) and those who have the pretentious, self-aggrandizing, and aberrational attitude of believing only they have the solution to Shinnok's dominant gameplay (i.e., namely D. R. and Juggs).
Oh, so you agree that he is strong but not to the point of OP?!
I always said he is top tier after buffs, but not to the point where he is head and shoulders above everyone else in the cast. Plus - yes he is pretty easy to get a hang of. But as we have found out it will take more dedication to place with him at Evo. If anything evo has proved that BS is top 10 for sure now, but he is beatable, and does have to work against top tiers like Kobu Jitsu Tanya and Tempest Lao.
 
I disagree. I don't think that's really the answer as to what needs changed. I think the hellspark MB is what really needs to be looked at. +14 from +24 is definitely nerfed, but you can still do guaranteed chip damage loops, which is a problem in itself just because it opens up a lot of pressure because you literally can't do anything. Characters don't need guaranteed chip damage strings like that.
You will have to take it away from other characters like Tempest and Kobu Jitsu.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Wound has been playing Shinnok at least for month and a half now since Shinnok has got his first buffs. And Mustard played him since day one!
The rest of what you said is stupid, I guess I can start " Oh look at all those Cassies, Cages, Sonyas etc who we have seen a lot of" they will sure be placing in 4-5-6 month. They just hadn't caught up to the curve yet. WTF people?! Just admit you were wrong when you are wrong.
A month and a half? I'd have to go back n check that. Either way, my point still stands.

As far as what you said, it makes no sense as a response. Cassie has been Cassie since Day 1. Plenty are using her because she is strong. Shinnok recently got buffed to Top tier, and went from "no one uses that shitty character" to "15% of EVO is using the character". Either two things will happen. People will get better with an easy to use, has it all, top tier character that they recently switched to over time, or they'll get worse because the character isn't is as good as initially thought. I highlyyyyyy doubt the latter is the case.

You Shinnok main's are just upset because everyone and their grandma is playing the character right now, for the obvious reason that the character is incredibly strong while being easy to play. It happens.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
You Shinnok main's are just upset because everyone and their grandma is playing the character right now, for the obvious reason that the character is incredibly strong while being easy to play. It happens.
you bet your ass I am. I was happy playing my impostor, chilling with a char that was considered bottom 5 (but totally wasn't, he is post nerf tho) and now I can't play impostor cuz my game plan was around those HLs, so I switched to bone shaper and got all the hate becuase of a bunch of idiots that played tanya a week ago just to switch to bone shaper now. and I'm upset for Mustard too, with Brady talking shit about bone shaper while Mustard was playing. ffs Mustard played him when he was so bad that nobody even considered him, not even me.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Not agreeing with the dude

But can't tell if serious
I should have used the :DOGE

you bet your ass I am. I was happy playing my impostor, chilling with a char that was considered bottom 5 (but totally wasn't, he is post nerf tho) and now I can't play impostor cuz my game plan was around those HLs, so I switched to bone shaper and got all the hate becuase of a bunch of idiots that played tanya a week ago just to switch to bone shaper now. and I'm upset for Mustard too, with Brady talking shit about bone shaper while Mustard was playing. ffs Mustard played him when he was so bad that nobody even considered him, not even me.
Lol I feel you, but that's how these things go. I went through it in Street Fighter. Played Cammy since I was a kid, but then people thought I was tier whoring lol.

Jax is amazing, almost too amazing, but you don't see anyone flocking to him. Shinnok has become the perfect low execution, low risk, high reward character, so the bandwagon is going to be jam packed for a while. If all else fails, use Necro. :rolleyes: