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General/Other The Deathstroke Problem

D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
What's really funny is how much people are complaining about his guns. I think his Sword Flip is going to be the new Kano Upball of Injustice. If people don't hate that shit right off the bat, I'll teach em to hate it real quick... :D
 
Trini_Bwoi

Trini_Bwoi

Kombatant
If they try to retaliate by picking Deathstroke, you could use the character they just lost with if you can. Just don't lose lol. Who knows, there's a chance they might take the hint and learn something. And just might make them more mad but they can't cry for nerfs after that.
 
Darth Mao

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #buffRaiden
We have two critical points here:

1) The NRS can't consider requests for nerf from a scrub without any reasoning and knowledge of the game and game engine to not happen what happened with MK9 is unbalanced by the fault of whiners. Who holds the games are those who, at least, want to learn it at a high level, not the player who complains all the time. The game needs to attract hard core gamers playing on a level insanely high. They are the opinion formers. If a game can withstand the rigors of tournament level - which has order of magnitude more accurate than you can believe it - then it will be able to attract their attention. As players improve, they will get deeper into the game, not the opposite. Players addicts, as opinion formers, influencing much of the market.

2) The scrubs should stop being scrubs and understand that you need to understand the game and learn to play it before you try to ban something that is not pleasing to him. The scrub just want to play within his own mental and arbitrary rules invented. If you beat a scrub throwing projectiles him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting close to you... that is cheap. If you grab him repeatedly, is also cheap. We've covered this. If you sit and block for 2 hours without making any other movement, is cheap. Virtually anything you do that results in you do win is a perfect candidate to be called cheap. Not for that kind of player that the game need to improve.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
gamemk said:
2d MK, in general, does not have zoning. MK only had zoning in MK 1 and MK2 and that was the result of simply avoiding attacks, thus avoiding taking damage, which is the entire purpose of zoning. Zoning doesn't mean my character can just do stuff at full screen, and you can't do anything about it (note: this isn't zoning only when the opposing player MUST take damage. If the opposing player is simply forced to duck or jump and take zero damage, then it is zoning,. However, it might walk a fine line of being 'bad' design because neither player has any incentive to engage the other). If you can't duck or jump to avoid Deathstroke's full screen assault, then it might be an issue. Imo, Noob and Kenshi are horrible designs for the reasons I've mentioned.

Edit: people are mentioning Green Arrow, so maybe that is a countermeasure to DeathStroke.
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At the moment, you can duck and jump Deathstroke's zoning unless he reads you correctly. Hence having to zone intelligently. I also have to disagree with your definition of zoning to some extent. As a zoner, it's my primary goal to make sure I'm keeping you at full screen and limiting your options as much as possible. However, that shouldn't be a braindead job, and should require intelligent strategy and good reads. Also, Green Arrow is actually free to zoning.
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
karaokelove said:
What's really funny is how much people are complaining about his guns. I think his Sword Flip is going to be the new Kano Upball of Injustice. If people don't hate that shit right off the bat, I'll teach em to hate it real quick... :D
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Between this and the ridiculously fast startup on his guns this is going to be one of the most rage quit on chars in the game.

Expect hatemail if you play DS..... Lots of hatemail.......
 
TomlulsBrady

TomlulsBrady

Kombatant
That feel when you realize that Deathstroke can't duck Cyborg Iafbs, but, he wont stop shooting to allow you to start them.:(

That feel when you do Cyborg zipline and Deathstroke shoots threw the armor.:(

That feel when you finally get in, and realize majority of cyborg strings are made to setup missile traps which will just help deathstroke start his zoning up again.:(

those feels:(
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
gamemk said:
I say it's not zoning because look at it like this: if we're lined up to run a race, and I have a bucket of tar, and I get out first and throw my bucket of tar in your lane, causing you to fall behind, are we even running a race? It's one sided in my favor, and there was nothing you could do to avoid the hazard I put out. Take it further and say that the rules say you can't jump at any point in the race. So, you have to stay in your lane, and you can't jump over the tar even if you know it's coming or know that it is there. For there to be zoning, you have to have the option to avoid an incoming attack, or match an attack every time regardless of reads on the attacker's part. Ideally, you should also be able to avoid and gain meter, too, if your opponent is gaining meter from throwing stuff at you from full screen. Yeah, you might be right about Green Arrow. I don't have the game yet.
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I'm afraid I don't understand how your analogy relates to zoning. And I completely disagree with "For there to be zoning, you have to have the option to avoid an incoming attack, or match an attack every time regardless of reads on the attacker's part.". You're basically saying that a player should be able to just ignore zoning without having to think about it, which would make every zoning character impotent.
 
Trini_Bwoi

Trini_Bwoi

Kombatant
gamemk said:
I say it's not zoning because look at it like this: if we're lined up to run a race, and I have a bucket of tar, and I get out first and throw my bucket of tar in your lane, causing you to fall behind, are we even running a race? It's one sided in my favor, and there was nothing you could do to avoid the hazard I put out. Take it further and say that the rules say you can't jump at any point in the race. So, you have to stay in your lane, and you can't jump over the tar even if you know it's coming or know that it is there. For there to be zoning, you have to have the option to avoid an incoming attack, or match an attack every time regardless of reads on the attacker's part. Ideally, you should also be able to avoid and gain meter, too, if your opponent is gaining meter from throwing stuff at you from full screen. Yeah, you might be right about Green Arrow. I don't have the game yet.
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I...what? Lol what is the Deathstroke's bucket of tar in this analogy?
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Im afraid he ends up as noob of injustice ... or worst , kano of injustice :( please no .... hes too cool to nerf him :D
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
gamemk said:
I'm talking about the options/choices that a competitor has. You say zoning is the action of limiting an opponent's options, but I'm saying that that is too one sided, and that zoning should be a back and forth 'dance' with both competitors gaining and losing something. Zoning is the jockeying for protecting space and gaining space. My analogy of the race and the tar was about options/choices. The runner with the tar can limit the options of their opponent and their opponent has no choice but to accept the situation. They have no choice but to fall further and further behind, until the runner who had the advantage of using a hazard finishes the race. I'm saying that a player should be able to either match zoning, or avoid what is headed toward them. Anything else than that is just free/easy advantage to one player.


His full screen attacks if they are unavoidable.
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The goal of any character is to limit your opponents' options as much as possible. The only difference between zoning and rushdown is that I limit your options from full-screen and suffer in close-proximity, and rushdown is the exact opposite. Just because I limit your options from full-screen instead of close-quarters doesn't make me any more powerful. Just as you need to close the gap to defeat me, I need to maintain my distance to defeat you. Totally equal. Totally fair.
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Master
CrimsonShadow said:
PL was playing yesterday and having some trouble getting through the zoning with certain characters. PL helped test the game.

Mildly retarded? :)
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PL was playing against a genuinely good player who actually knows how to zone and understands spacing, as opposed to noobs just spamming projectiles and other noobs not finding ways around them, which I believe is what the thread is discussing (I don't think we're actually discussing the highest possible level, as I don't think someone really believes that top players need simplistic hints such as "hold block and dash"). The issue that the OP is discussing (I think) is not whether top players can get around good zoning, but whether noobs can get around "spamming."

With that said, I agree that even if such advise is given, most players won't read or still won't learn how to get around it. Hopefully it won't lead to any needless nerfs. Unless said nerfs are legitimately warranted of course.
 
Solid

Solid

The Longbow Hunter.
CrimsonShadow said:
PL was playing yesterday and having some trouble getting through the zoning with certain characters. PL helped test the game.

Mildly retarded? :)
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So? A good zoner should give you trouble getting in. The game is too new for ANYBODY to be really good at it yet. Everybody needs to learn.
 
Killphil

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
Fractured_Shadow said:
*Tells randscum noob to go to TYM to level up*

*Gets a wall of txt about how I need a life, am fat, and need to get laid*

I'll pass.....
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I still think it wouldn't hurt to try. If you get one person to come here and poke around for every 5 you mentioned it to, it'd be worth it.

*I'm only saying this because when I beat people's asses on mk9 vita they would ask me how I knew all of "them fancy combos" and I'd direct them here. Who knows, maybe I got one of them to stick around? In any event, if I'm lucky enough to receive hatemail, I'll be sure to pass the message along.
 
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