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The Deadshot Debate.

Rebalance Deadshot?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 125 73.5%
  • No.

    Votes: 10 5.9%
  • There's no way to adjust him without defeating the purpose of his design.

    Votes: 35 20.6%

  • Total voters
    170

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
What about this...

His specials are based a lot around what Full Auto Jacqui did, no?

What if...you get rid of Straight Shot all together.
And in it's place, you give him a disorienting Shotgun blast.
You could still use it as an anti-air to follow up combo.
If you MB it when they're grounded, extend the combo. If they're in air, half-screen knockdown.

Thoughts?
 

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
What about this...

His specials are based a lot around what Full Auto Jacqui did, no?

What if...you get rid of Straight Shot all together.
And in it's place, you give him a disorienting Shotgun blast.
You could still use it as an anti-air to follow up combo.
If you MB it when they're grounded, extend the combo. If they're in air, half-screen knockdown.

Thoughts?
lmao you rly want to kill this character dont you ? bf1 is his best tool , controls neutral , build meter , used in combos . Remove it or nerf it too much and character is garbage


Its like removing dive kick from adam or brainiac , or this straight mid projectile from fate . Its what makes the character good .

Btw this time I believe in nrs that they will not kill him . I mean they nerfed supes , adam , aqa , catwoman and they are all usable . I think they learned how to balance finally.
 
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Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
ironically, deadshot beats starfire
Narrr... she is way more broken imo.. but hey do not take my word for it.. try a top tier pro!

Nerf deadshot and starfire takes his place 100% guaranteed, nothing changes, quote me.
Yes, she does.

Are we playing the same character? Starfire has a move better than MB rifle because it's builds a bar and does more chip for no meter m8, her chip games stronger and her damage is higher.

Only issue is nobody plays her properly
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Why not lower the damage on all projectiles. Make his zoning more of an annoyance than a threat 25-30% Maybe? The problem isn't really headshot up close it's how boring it is to watch and get In. If he tickles you from a distance then it would deinsentivize the "lame" play.
Before you blow this up let's all ask ourselves how strategic is d's zoning to begin with..
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Maybe there is also some frustration to the fact that for you to fight Deadshot you have to be on point with everything all the time, dash, crouch, reads, punish, while DS himself keep basically using two moves from afar before you can finally reach him.

I actually knew this was coming the moment they went through him in the patch stream. I proposed some type of recharge mechanic for DS back then, so you can limit his projectile usage, oh well, it's up to NRS figure this out.

I for one think the character design and gameplan is very lame, as a sniper it would make more sense to be a character that needs a few shots to be deadly instead of making a rain of bullets.
ya I would have loved to see him have 2 guns one on his wrist which has more ammo but hits like a weiner and a rifle that hit reaaaally hard but each clip only had like 2 -3rounds and they both needed to be reloaded similar to ga
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Oh yeah also nrs games have not even seen a broken character or move in any game! From mk9 til now. Y'all highest tier need be A Tier there are character in other games where they are Shatter tier literally they are that good so y'all needa level up fr
I see...
 
In think his zoning is 100% fine and we should not worry about what other communities or people say because alot of esports and sports for that matter has a lame or defensive play. I'm the only problem with Deadshot is for good his zoning is he shouldn't be as good or safe up close. I do not purpose we get rid of his 50/50 but make it a risk and get rid of the possibility of staggering. I say we should make
b1 = -6
b12 = -16
B123= -5

Doing this makes it impossible for him to stagger you and to stay safe he has to finish the string. By making his main up close move weaker he will have trouble getting people off him. This means the slow grind to getting to Deadshot was worth it and the Deadshot player has to work harder to get you off or mb roll right before you get there using up one of the bars of meter he could use for zoning.

What dou y'all think of this?
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
It's not that he's broken and overpowered. It's that he is incredibly simple and stupidly effective while being boring as fuck and uninteresting as hell.

Zoning is a valid playstyle and I enjoy several zoning characters in the Injustice series, but Deadshot is just textbook poor design.
 

Nobus3r1

House of Bane; ID: 8V596
Why not lower the damage on all projectiles. Make his zoning more of an annoyance than a threat 25-30% Maybe? The problem isn't really headshot up close it's how boring it is to watch and get In. If he tickles you from a distance then it would deinsentivize the "lame" play.
Whether you're referring to all of Deadshot's projectiles or all projectiles in the game I do not think that this is an especially good idea. In general when looking at a character tools > damage > health/stun (where applicable; i.e. not all games have a stun system and some games have equal life across all characters). If you're not changing how a tool works you're not going to really move the needle on how it's used. A character that struggles to get in on Deadshot now isn't miraculously going to be able to get in on him if Wrist Cannon does 25% less damage. It's just going to take 25% longer for them to lose which, given that a large portion of this discussion is being framed from a watch-ability perspective, is a bad thing.
Before you blow this up let's all ask ourselves how strategic is d's zoning to begin with..
It really depends on who the other person is using. Some characters struggle against zoning. Full stop. I seriously doubt that there are any characters in this game that get wrecked by Deadshot but then turn around and crap on Dr. Fate, Starfire or Green Arrow.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
It actually is adjusted for characters, though. For example, Aquaman used to build an insane amount of meter back by doing Trident rush before they changed it in Inj2.

There are edge cases where specific things need adjustment.
Pretty sure it's tied to damage. Nerfing Aquaman's damage (and subsequently his chip) is what limited his meter build. Not that anyone would do it, but his meter build on a whiffed trident rush would be unchanged.

I think the mechanic should be reworked for Deadshot bc the issue isn't his zoning damage, it's how much meter he builds when whiffing shots.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Edit: take this with a grain of salt, just seen too many deadshot counterpicks in the last 24 hrs to not be salty
Like, it's a bitch that only the guys whose answer to DS is a ten minute DS made it to top 8 and the two best DS' in the scene (Foxy and Sonic) were waiting for them, but you know what, that's tournaments.

No amount of patching is going to make it so that counter picking is done via the random select box.
 
The argument could be made that NONE of this Deadshot stuff is a problem.. and that the problem with this game and ALL nrs games is the MASSIVE CHIP. Imagine what the game would be like if Chip was not an issue, and zoning was all about spacing and opening people up.

Like maybe the design is fine, but once you add the global chip values the designes become broken.
I think the chip damage is mainly a way to incentivize offensive playstyles because without it there'd be little reason to not just go full turtle, especially since projectiles don't trade.
 
It's not that he's broken and overpowered. It's that he is incredibly simple and stupidly effective while being boring as fuck and uninteresting as hell.

Zoning is a valid playstyle and I enjoy several zoning characters in the Injustice series, but Deadshot is just textbook poor design.
hard to argue with this. I think zoning characters should be hard to use. that's why you see everyone picking him up in a week
 
Nerf deadshot and starfire takes his place 100% guaranteed, nothing changes, quote me.

Also, only 2 of the top 8 actually play a character that counters deadshot (me and semiij with CW), that's why there were so many mirrors

Still aids though.
I understand your point. she is also extremely easy to use. the hardest thing about her is correct usage of star dust. don't you feel her neutral is a bit weaker? I do fine with her unless its a character that has a strong advancing mid like super, BA et cetera. b3 is good and f23 leads to oki but good players have been d2ing it seemingly on reaction.

are you using the ds strategy? no meter usage except push block? also she is much easier to walk down. if you can get them to block a star dust and do a beam while they are in block stun you push them back farther than riffle. she seems good but her neutral is harder for me than DS
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
lmao you rly want to kill this character dont you ? bf1 is his best tool , controls neutral , build meter , used in combos . Remove it or nerf it too much and character is garbage


Its like removing dive kick from adam or brainiac , or this straight mid projectile from fate . Its what makes the character good .

Btw this time I believe in nrs that they will not kill him . I mean they nerfed supes , adam , aqa , catwoman and they are all usable . I think they learned how to balance finally.
You really don't think that between all the other bullets he has he wouldn't find a way to still get shit done?

I don't want to kill this character, I want him to not be as boring as a broken escalator.

Also, Foxy's right. The moment Deadshot goes down, everyone who was firing bullets will be throwing cookies.
Just like Tanya led to Alien and so on.

It's not that he's broken and overpowered. It's that he is incredibly simple and stupidly effective while being boring as fuck and uninteresting as hell.

Zoning is a valid playstyle and I enjoy several zoning characters in the Injustice series, but Deadshot is just textbook poor design.
This is probably the best description I've ever heard of him.
 

DC King

Noob
You sound hella dumb. I'm guessing scarecrow is top 5 because he won a major huh? And that superman is only top 20 because only one superman is ever in top 32 OR maybe batman is trash because no batman gets past top 16 lol or supergirl is bottom tier because only two supergirl are good and supergirl has been in 3/3 top 8s for the game! Maybe maybe you think flash is top 3 because honeybee placements. This question you asked is dumb asf tbh. Sonic ran through everyone with darkseid before and didn't @EMPEROR_KNICKS just win some tournament using mainly darkseid? And supergirl WAS always good now she got unexpected buffs and is STILL being used good by 2 players.
How do I sound dumb when ur the 1 that bought up majors when u mentioned Deadshot in ur post i quoted?
Point is very few played SG b4 she got buffed and now she's making appearances. And when did Sonic do anything with Darkseid in a top 8?...don't worry i'll wait. Yes Knicks won with Darkseid @ HTH but don't act like everybody plays him as well as Knicks does. Not to mention how many Darkseid players do u even know that compete?

For the record I don't put characters in tiers like some do i just play the game and don't worry about which char is top or bottom in the eyes of someone else.
 
I think the most well designed zoners in NRS games are Sinestro, Zod, and Dr. Fate. They have oppressive zoners but are complex and have a high learning curve. Deadshot is oppressive af but dumb easy to play. That's the main problem