Question The Big Balancing Patch is Coming. What buffs does Bane still need?

[KeyserSoze]

Ok I guess I can put in my suggestions too, they are:

Level 1/2/3 Venom Cooldown penalties reduced to 95/80/66% damage done and 105/110/125% damage taken.
Standard Venom Armor (and projectile immunity, if on Level 3) on Ring Toss.
f2 less unsafe, still unsafe but not as bad. It is a bad move, please change it unless the design of the character is to punish failed execution on f2d.
Projectiles such as Gatling Gun and Lighting actually count as projectiles.
Double punch damage increased to 12%, it's doing projectile-level damage at this time and is a huge part of Bane's game but smart players don't fear it at all.
Dash cancel Venom Charge. I'll never stop hoping!

That's it for me.

I really like all of these.

 

[Hellion_96]

I think bane's pretty damn good as is. He may lose to the top five but so does everyone else.

 

[Doombawkz]

Program every bane to automatically play a recording of PND_Mustard. Automatic s tier

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

Bull charge cancel. That is all.

 

[Doombawkz]

Charge doesn't need a cancel, you shouldn't be using it in place of guard dashing anyways.

 

[HardlyWalken]

Well I wanted to cancel into a dash->command throw with it if they tried to neutral block it. Probably too good though, which is why I added the "never stop hoping" line.

 

[LEGI0N47]

You can't remove the debuffs from Venom. It would be completely, utterly overpowered and uninteresting. It would go from a fairly balanced mechanic to the best thing in the entire game.

Why not reduce it a bunch? I'm a supporter of buffing the guys that issues to be on the level with the top tier. Superman gets Armor breaking & damage pretty much when he wants and does stupid chip zoing with trait. GL gets damage & extended special range, pretty much when he wants too, also stupid chip & push back. Grundy gets extra damage permenently & FREE armor with MORE hits for FREE naturally and it's not even his trait. None of them have drawbacks other than waiting all the while they have great zoning (maybe not Grundy) and normals, seems legit.

I'm tired of the easy mode tier getting risk free stuff while we work for every % we get and are paying or it on top of that. If we're going to pay for our debuff at least give us some stuff like more hits of armor on venom per level, increased speed, true projectile invulnerability....looking at you Black Adam, Green Lantern, Sinestro, Night Wing wing dings (flying dicks*) *plural not flying grayson. Or just better frame data on some key moves.

A lot of the suggestions in the thread are good like better speed on F2D, maybe venom properites on that since most specials in the game are easier to perform that that. Armor on Db1 since the game menu for trait says "gives a hit of armor to all of Banes specials" *disclaiminr: sorry you don't get this on your db1 AA that is waaaaay slower than DD or Grundy's and has a worse hitbox as well as priority. F3's speed can be measured with a sundial. F2 can be punished on blcok by a full charge b/f3 from just about any character, really!? Faster Charge start up would be welcome.

 

[chief713]

Why not reduce it a bunch? I'm a supporter of buffing the guys that issues to be on the level with the top tier. Superman gets Armor breaking & damage pretty much when he wants and does stupid chip zoing with trait. GL gets damage & extended special range, pretty much when he wants too, also stupid chip & push back. Grundy gets extra damage permenently & FREE armor with MORE hits for FREE naturally and it's not even his trait. None of them have drawbacks other than waiting all the while they have great zoning (maybe not Grundy) and normals, seems legit.

I'm tired of the easy mode tier getting risk free stuff while we work for every % we get and are paying or it on top of that. If we're going to pay for our debuff at least give us some stuff like more hits of armor on venom per level, increased speed, true projectile invulnerability....looking at you Black Adam, Green Lantern, Sinestro, Night Wing wing dings (flying dicks*) *plural not flying grayson. Or just better frame data on some key moves.

A lot of the suggestions in the thread are good like better speed on F2D, maybe venom properites on that since most specials in the game are easier to perform that that. Armor on Db1 since the game menu for trait says "gives a hit of armor to all of Banes specials" *disclaiminr: sorry you don't get this on your db1 AA that is waaaaay slower than DD or Grundy's and has a worse hitbox as well as priority. F3's speed can be measured with a sundial. F2 can be punished on blcok by a full charge b/f3 from just about any character, really!? Faster Charge start up would be welcome.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

I'm totally ok with every aspect of venom debuff staying as is if other buffs come to fruition. As big_aug said, it would be too good and also take away from the interesting nature of Bane. Other things like ring toss lacking armor, f.2 being uber-punishable, multiple issues with charge, certain projectiles not counting as projectiles, etc are all more important imo.

 

[The PantyChrist]

ive been thinking since day 1 he should be able to cancel his charge

 

[HardlyWalken]

I do agree that the Venom debuff should be adjusted more in Bane's favor, but there's a big difference between "we made the debuff less harsh, but it's still a problem" to "no debuff at all". As much as I want to see Bane get better I don't want to make a Faustian bargain that destroys one of the things I like about the character (tactical use of Venom) to do it. Just my opinion.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

I think Bane is fine as it is, obviously he loses to zoners, but that's something you can't complain about. He's a grappler.

Mostly Bugfixes would be nice.

Make projectiles count as projectiles.
Make his meterburn charge elbow hit all the time, it whiffs a lot for some reason.

 

[HardlyWalken]

Keep in mind if Bane can cancel his charge it becomes a lot more like Flash's Running Man move, that's a definite big buff.

Bane charges at the character beyond mid-screen, do you...

1) Jump and try to punish? Psych! Bane cancels into dash -> Venom Uppercut.
2) Stand and block? Psych! Bane cancels into dash -> Body Press.
3) Teleport or something else? Bane doesn't cancel and just runs right on by your stupid attack, laughing to himself. You know nothing of strength, etc. etc.

It really becomes an incredibly good move with one hit of armor, potential projectile immunity, can't parry, etc. etc. Scary stuff. Abuse-able stuff IMO. I'll never stop asking for it but I won't be surprised if we never see it.

 

[its_ezie]

i think banes charge is the only thing that needs buffing. give him level 3 like invincibility when he is on level 2. faster startup. idk if this is possible but being able to cancel his charge would be the ultimate buff for him lol just a thought

 

[its_ezie]

and i forgot his venom as well

 

[PND_Mustard]

i think Bane is fine the way he is.

the only thing i would reccomend is having groundpound projectiles count in the level 3 immunity as well as the regular projectiles now.

 

[big_aug]

i think Bane is fine the way he is.

the only thing i would reccomend is having groundpound projectiles count in the level 3 immunity as well as the regular projectiles now.

I can't really disagree. Most things I'd like to see are just some simple tweaks like all attacks that seem like projectiles should be treated as projectiles. I could live with no other buffs to the character as I have a long way to go.

I've said it before, but I'd be scared to see what some of the really good, top tier players could do with Bane if they really put the time in. Not saying you aren't really good though Mustard

 

[Zero-Shift]

Been playing Bane for about a week so I'm far from an expert. With that said, take everything I say from here on out with a grain of salt. It's going to be very broad and probably ignorant and wrong. If I say something reasonable than, hey, happy accident. Otherwise feel free to correct my ignorance.

I honestly think anybody who believes Bane is fine right now is delusional. There is of course the mechanical aspects like what's considered projectiles and so forth, but I think his biggest problem is venom is just a cruddy trait. Bane's damage is poor without venom and the payoff he gets from it doesn't nearly compensate for the drawback. I like the idea a lot but it's not balanced as is.

I understand keeping debuff. I play Hakan in SF4 so I totally get the appeal of strategic use for the power up. But the penalty has to be reduced and there needs to be a lot more bang for the buck. So many characters have power up traits with no drawbacks whatsoever for benefits just as good if not better than those given by venom. Personally when I lose Venom I feel I lose the initiative. I can't pressure and I can't risk attacking because of reduced defense. I say take away the defense debuff so at the very least we can play neutral instead of defensive or, in the case the defense debuff is kept, give Bane some terrifyingly good benefits for our investment at the higher level.

So, here are some things I wouldn't mind seeing. Now I obviously don't want all of them at once. Just some random ideas. All of these are idea made under the notion debuff is kept intact.

-More hits of super armor during Venom. Grundy gets this crap for free and Bane only gets one measly hit worth.
-Increased duration for all Venom buffs.
-Venom gives bigger damage buffs. How big depends on how bad the debuff stays.
-Charge is an unblockable attack at Venom Lvl. 3. Doomsday get's this crap for free. Bane deserves it at Lvl. 3.
-Double Punch causes more damage either by increasing the raw output or letting us combo off the MB version. The move is vital to Bane so give people a reason to fear it.
-Give F.2 at least one of any number of buffs already mentioned before me.

 

[Grr]

Fixes
- Change the input command of F2d to something not retarded. (DF2 sounds good)
- Make projectiles, projectiles (this isn't really a Bane fix, rather than a fix to other characters)
- Eliminate the "sometimes I whiff because I can" property of the first 1 in his 113/112 series.

Buffs
- Take away the gawdawful damage scaling from D2 in combos
- A Charge cancel into any of the other armored moves (only capable during Venom)
- Cut the startup down on f1
or
- Give F1 shoulder high invinciblity
- Speed up D3
- After Charge connects, make Bane closer to opponent more consistently

Bane already has a DF2, that's double punch. Bane doesn't really need one of his normals to turn into a special move. I agree with the projectile fix, it's ridiculous how Superman's lasers are considered a projectile in which Bane can run through lvl 3 than Black Adam's MB lighting bolt which negates Bane's invincibility. The reason the first hit of 112 and 113 whiff, is because it's a high, if the opponent was crouching, then 1 will whiff, this should be left alone. D2 was suppose to scale after it connects, it's universal, meaning that every fighter has it. Charge cancels was make dashing useless, charging should a risk to it. I'm not sure about the usefulness of f1 so I wouldn't mind having any changes with that. Same as D2, D3 was suppose to be slow with all fighters. The charge connection depends on the positioning of the opponent, for example, connecting charge after a 113 string and connecting a charge against a poorly timed jump is different, I don't think that needs a change.

One thing that bothered me is Flash can make Bane's charge whiff completely by using speed dodge and have a full combo punish. If anything, make Bane pass Flash as he uses speed dodge, instead of stopping in place. I really to look forward to what buffs and nerfs are coming for every character.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

I have one use for F1 since it's a proper hard knockdown

D2, crossup B3, F1, dash, grab.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

Double punch is BF2.

He might be using alt controls on pad, so it's like HCF I think

 

[Peckapowa]

How Superman gets a damage buff in addition to armor breaking shutting down even level 3.

theres armor breaking and small damage buff, then theres having all armored moves and HUGE damage buff

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

Then that would make that guy's F2D input suggestion to QCF with alt controls.

something like that

I'd like F2d to turn into F2, and make old F2 like F,f2 or something.

NRS has awful control schemes

 

[Tiger Wong]

Bane already has a DF2, that's double punch.

Double punch is BF2.

Bane doesn't really need one of his normals to turn into a special move

According to some people in this thread, Bane doesn't really "need" anything.

The reason the first hit of 112 and 113 whiff, is because it's a high, if the opponent was crouching, then 1 will whiff, this should be left alone.

My beed with 112/113 is I'll hit with a crossup j2/Jd3 and the first 1 won't hit sometimes and sometimes it will. I know it's a high. But if I land a jump-in, the opponent is forced standing. So shouldn't my first 1 connect?

D2 was suppose to scale after it connects, it's universal, meaning that every fighter has it.

I know. But it still blows.

Charge cancels was make dashing useless, charging should a risk to it.

What I mean is (I don't think I gave enough of a description) is a cancel into another venom-buffed move at the end of Charge. Only in Venom....... What I'm envisioning is........

- Bane does yolo charge and the rush begins.
- You input the cancel of the veonom-buffed move (BF2/DB2/DBF3) during the rush.
- Bane doesn't run the opponent over when he reaches the opponent.
- Instead, he does the other move at the end.

That's what I mean.

Same as D2, D3 was suppose to be slow with all fighters.

I don't know about that. I run HG and her sweep is 14F. Bane's is decidely slower (20f?). DD's is 11F.
The difference in sweeps is like the difference in everyone's B3. They all vary (seemingly for noe reason)

The charge connection depends on the positioning of the opponent, for example, connecting charge after a 113 string and connecting a charge against a poorly timed jump is different, I don't think that needs a change.

It's a bit of greedy want for me for Bane to be closer. It looks like Bane's Charge was for him to get closer. And yet...... when he rushes from 3/4 screen to run over a projectile, he lands near enough to maybe connect a D2 but an opponent can EASILY backdash away from almost everything.

And moreover..... sometimes Bane lands really close with a lot of +frames (after a 113) and other times he doesn't (like if I ran over a MC from HG) and though Bane runs them over with the same distance fomr each other........ the oki positions are very much different.

 

[Doombawkz]

All of your wants pertain to misuse of charge as a means of getting in on someone. Block and dash will get you further faster, and from d.2 range charge becomes almost impossible to jump over or away from.

Buffs Bane "needs":

Double Punch needs more damage
Parries and Projectiles need to count as such (GL mini-gun, BL lightning, Flash dodge, etc)
Armor on Ring Toss




Thats about it.