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Question The Big Balancing Patch is Coming. What buffs does Bane still need?

chief713

Vertebral Subluxationist
All these scenarios you're describing only affect charge (except trident scoop). We don't lose to those characters because of those multihit attacks in my opinion. I don't think the armor is necessary, but that's just me. It seems like it would be good, but I can't really think of that many situations where two hits of armor would have made a difference in the outcome of a match.

Fix projectiles so they are projectiles, give us some damage on DP, and improve F2.
If we could charge through Superman laser eyes on lvl 2 and BA MB Lightning at all then I think it'd be worth it. We definitely lose the Flash MU because of MB Lightning charge. If we had a way to stop that, he'd be DP bait. Also, w/2 hits of armor, we can go in on BM when he has a bat up which is significant because he pretty much demands respect with just one out. NW staff stance would be greatly reduced in effectiveness. Those are 3 really bad MU's that change a lot if we get multiple hits.
 
If we could charge through Superman laser eyes on lvl 2 and BA MB Lightning at all then I think it'd be worth it. We definitely lose the Flash MU because of MB Lightning charge. If we had a way to stop that, he'd be DP bait. Also, w/2 hits of armor, we can go in on BM when he has a bat up which is significant because he pretty much demands respect with just one out. NW staff stance would be greatly reduced in effectiveness. Those are 3 really bad MU's that change a lot if we get multiple hits.
Everything they do requires meter to break our armor. I think that's fair. I mean, there has to be some counter. Like I said though, I'd happily take it. I'd rather other things get changed though.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Ok so right now, universally, we want the following things:

More damage on double punch
Quality-of-life improvements on Ring Toss
Better usage of f.1/f.2
Projectiles to count as projectiles


That's not much to balance and all are realistic.
 

SUPARNOVAX

Low tier? I was born in it, molded by it
Don't settle for less. NRS doesn't really know how to balance their games. Got two big titles under their belt as a testament. Whether it's low end or high end balancing, they don't really have good qualitative feedback if people don't stop coddling their decisions and holding back.

Not that I am expecting people to start requesting Bane get a venom spit projectile or anything, but realistically getting some sort of adjustment on whatever he has is pretty realistic. Additional armor isn't out of the realm of possibility. Like I've said in the past, you ask for something more, it doesn't mean other things have to be taken away either. I just think this character is like 85% complete, he could use a bit more polishing.
 

SUPARNOVAX

Low tier? I was born in it, molded by it
That's exactly what I'm talking about though regarding settling for less. He definitely has a few shortcomings that can be addressed to level him.

Since Pollo did mention something about looking at Bane on the Zatanna stream, might as well throw them all the suggestions up. If people think he's fine then let it be and suggest nothing. But he's not completely fine for sure.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
No one is saying he is completely fine, but you have to look at it from a different perspective. We were thinking of only a few MUs, while giving him needless things might cause him to become overpowered as a character. As much as I'd love Bane top 5, I don't want him to be at risk of any "toning down" and I'd rather him just be a strong character who can operate on his own and is in at least the upper half of the cast.
 

SUPARNOVAX

Low tier? I was born in it, molded by it
But that's what I am talking about. Balancing things doesn't mean something is going to be taken away at the expense of improvements. Things would just be improved for the sake of improving. And from what NRS has done so far, they haven't really done anything drastic in that respect either. So I don't get where the fear of giving him something would result in having something else taken away.

What match ups do you think are his worse that could use addressing? Or rather which are actually bad enough to make him look really hard to compete at all?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
But that's what I am talking about. Balancing things doesn't mean something is going to be taken away at the expense of improvements. Things would just be improved for the sake of improving. And from what NRS has done so far, they haven't really done anything drastic in that respect either. So I don't get where the fear of giving him something would result in having something else taken away.

What match ups do you think are his worse that could use addressing? Or rather which are actually bad enough to make him look really hard to compete at all?
Nightwing and BA are namely because of wing-dings (A.K.A. flying dicks) and BA's general mobility and low lightning.
Flash is because he is able to work us over on account of us being unable to duck his attacks. Also his parry still avoids charge.
Superman because he is superman.

Everything else is manageable, but for the most part it comes down to
Projectiles that aren't projectiles
Duckable attacks that aren't duckable
Superman
BA backdash

How do you fix those as Bane instead of simply fixing them on other characters? What do you give him to overcome those barring fixing the attacks themselves?
 
I definitely agree that Bane does perfectly fine against most characters, but (like a lot of mid-tier characters) his problem is with the top 7 or so. And that's really a failing on NRS's part for designing some very bad, unbalanced characters. I agree with Doombawkz that other than a few minor fixes (and my own personal pet peeve, dash-cancelling Raging Charge which even I admit is not needed) most of Bane's problems come from (mostly) other character's bullshit, silly mechanics issues, and a couple of moves that don't work like they are intended to (Ring Toss). That's it. I actually think that Bane is a model character in a lot of ways - a couple great things, a couple good things, and a couple bad things (another character I feel is a very good model is Zod, for the same reasons).

Personally, the last thing I want to see - literally the last thing - is for Bane to become a brain-dead flowchart character like Superman, where he has a couple of incredible sick things he can do and just mindlessly repeats them over and over and relies on his superior bullshit to win matches. And if I may be a huge fucking nerd for a minute, if you go by the comics Bane is not supposed to be some dumbshit thug grappler - he is supposed to be a super-intelligent guy, like Batman, who studies his opponent and then breaks them with his superior body AND mind. I feel like he's almost there - between the intelligence needed to manage Venom properly (and there's a fun element of risk taking to it as well), the variety of moves he has, and the amount of setups and things that are always being discovered here - I really like how he plays, he literally plays like nothing else in any fighting game with his combination of ease of execution, armored specials, strikes, throws, and setups. I just want to see him be able to succeed against certain opponents that do autodial easy stuff but I don't want Bane to get autodial easy stuff himself. That's my opinion, hope it at least makes sense.