Question The Big Balancing Patch is Coming. What buffs does Bane still need?

[HardlyWalken]

Fellow Baniacs,

Last night on the Martian Manhunter stream, NetherRealms announced that they were working on a "huge" balance patch that would buff many characters (and "normalize" a few others). Most importantly, they stated that they would still be looking at the community's feedback for changes and ideas.

Well nobody is posting in the old buff threads anymore! So let's start a new one and get good feedback. Then we can summon colt in here to look at the suggestions for inspiration.

A couple of tips for constructive suggestions:

There probably won't be any moves added to the character, so suggestions for new moves are probably no-go.
There's going to be people who disagree with any suggestion, let's be nice to each other about it though. We all are coming from the same place which is that we want Bane to have his most glaring flaws corrected and some of the dumber moves patched up to be worthwhile.

 

[its_ezie]

for bane it will always be his venom lol always. and like everyone else the simple answer or answers will be his cooldown, damage debuff, and how long each level last. on top of that i think his uppercut should be a little less negative and more importantly his AIR GRAB! dear God his grab is horrible! it needs to have a hitbox like grundy and i think it should also have armor on it. i also think they should increase the hits of armor for levels 1 and 2. level 1 should take two hits and level 2 should take 3. make level 3 last a little longer and decrease the cooldown a tad bit as well. OH and his hitbox on a jump in down 3 should be bigger as well i find it whiffing way to much.

 

[-Deadman-]

I wouldn't change anything else for Bane.
I would make all projectiles in this game actually projectiles (namely GL Chainguns, GL MB Rocket, BA MB Lightning, MB Batarangs, etc)
so our projectile immune v3 charge works as intended and call it a day.

Let those in their ivory towers come down to us, we have all we need.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

Make f.2 -10 on block or something, -7 if NRS wants to be stupidly nice to Bane.
Give f.2 and f.2d armor in all levels of venom (or just in 2 and 3 to be conservative).
Can dash out of charge in order to cancel it.
I'd be very happy with any of this, but to be honest he doesn't need any of it...it's just what I'd like.

 

[Error]

The Bane council has been discussing this, the general consensus seems to be any of these:

F2 to be safer and/or stagger some also mentioned it getting armor at earlier venom levels
venom armor on air grab
F1 to have some use
A faster charge
That MB lightning, Minigun and other projectiles count as projectiles
Nerfs for the top tier (lol)

 

[LOCO]

bane is fine as of now pretty much
only thang he needs help is at heavy zoners with multi hitting projectiles
the level 3 charge of course handles that but against smart players they bait it out and its almost imposible to advance

to fix this maybe give him sped up recovery frames on level 3 charge but not enough to make it broken like kanos upball was at a point
just enough to follow up with pressure
keep recovery on level 1 and 2 unchanged

 

[-Deadman-]

on top of that i think his uppercut should be a little less negative and more importantly his AIR GRAB! dear God his grab is horrible! it needs to have a hitbox like grundy and i think it should also have armor on it.

Our air grab is great. Using it as a combo-ender is one of the best positioning tools we have.
For example, if you corner your opponent, you could start a combo off of a crossup splash and end in air grab to re-corner them.
The armor you want isn't necessary. If you're having issues AAing with it, AA them with d2 first, then Air Grab them.

 

[its_ezie]

Our air grab is great. Using it as a combo-ender is one of the best positioning tools we have.
For example, if you corner your opponent, you could start a combo off of a crossup splash and end in air grab to re-corner them.
The armor you want isn't necessary. If you're having issues AAing with it, AA them with d2 first, then Air Grab them.

i know about id rather end with a MB command grab if i wanna put them in the corner or to put them back. im talking about reading when a jump is coming it hits and misses sometimes and doesnt seem to consistant for me. the hitbox is strange compared to grundys and even doomsdays.

 

[Red Venom]

I kind of had a lulzy idea about this thread but I'm wondering if I should follow through on it.....

 

[HardlyWalken]

Please don't disrupt this thread, post a new one mocking it if you must.

 

[Red Venom]

Please don't disrupt this thread, post a new one mocking it if you must.

Not mocking, more of a "similar" thread if you will. As far as buff suggestions for Bane goes I would suggest a slightly lower start up on his Raging Charge, or fix the MB variant as it will occasionally whiff if it connects. That and the aforementioned posts seem reasonable.

 

[chief713]

- Level 3 immunity needs to apply to all projectiles (NW, BA, GL etc)
- Slightly more damage on double punch (either raw damage or combo potential with heavy damage scaling and meter requirement)

I'd be fine with either of those. He either needs a stronger tool to help him get in or he needs to do more damage when he gets in to make it count. As it stands, it's harder to get in with Bane than most other chars, but when he is in, his damage is maybe only slightly above average. The risk reward is off a bit, especially when you factor in debuff.

 

[HardlyWalken]

Not mocking, more of a "similar" thread if you will. As far as buff suggestions for Bane goes I would suggest a slightly lower start up on his Raging Charge, or fix the MB variant as it will occasionally whiff if it connects. That and the aforementioned posts seem reasonable.

Oh then I'm sorry about the misunderstanding, I totally understand making fun of stuff, this is the Internet after all....just don't want it to get in the way of people's thoughts.

 

[big_aug]

I think f2 should be adjusted. If we had that type of ranged threat that wasn't full combo punishable, we'd be in much better shape. If it got armor on level 1 or level 2 venom, that would give us a way to close the gap on people or punish from a greater distance than point blank range. If no armor, then give it a bit faster startup so we actually have a threat at a distance. Something.

All projectile attacks need to be considered projectile attacks for level 3 venom. The main issues there are GL's minigun and BA's mb lightning. That would do a lot for us in those matchup.

I'd like double punch to do 10% damage instead of 7%. Anyone that knows how to fight Bane knows you should eat the double punches on wake up to avoid the higher damage options Bane might use. Eating four double punches in a row is the same as getting full comboed, so you might as well go with that and hope Bane goes for a grab or combo instead.

I'd like to see us get more damage on our MB specials in general.

 

[187x]

none.

 

[zuurrkk]

It'd be sick to see him able to cancel his charge. Grundy can do it

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

I'm not sure why everyone's so obsessed with canceling charge's start up frames... but...

Not everything needs a drawback for it's balance. In fact I think a lot of Bane's design are on the flawed side and they need some polish.

Bane specific:
1. Remove damage, defense, and speed reductions on venom cooldown. Shorten per venom stack by 1 to 1.5 seconds. Bane's gonna stay in the bottom half of the roster with this pointless design IMHO.
2. Add hit stun frames to jd3
3. Make highs connect after a jd3 on hit properly. No reason it should whiff because the opponent is considered crouching on hit...
4. Change command input for f2d into something else. Speed it up a bit while you're at it.
5. Reduce frame disadvantage for f2, at least enough for a max ranged one to not be punished so easily. Point blank? Yeah sure, go to town on Bane for it.
6. Add applicable armor to ring toss from using venom trait.
7. Speed up BF1 charge's startup frames.
8. Fix Super move to not get slapped by lows free on the start up or remove grab crush just frames.
9. Fix/remove d,db input enabling ring toss (normal input settings, not sure if this can be done in alt. input settings).
10. Speed up f3

General game specific:
1. Change string/special cancel input timings. Lotta weird shit going on that I can't explain.
2. Allow cancels off multiple directional attacks ala Street Fighter without going neutral. IE hitting d1, and unable to do d2 xx Double Punch unless you neutral the directional input or use alternative directions.
3. Drop interactive object damage to like 10-12%.

 

[big_aug]

I'm not sure why everyone's so obsessed with canceling charge's start up frames... but...

Not everything needs a drawback for it's balance. In fact I think a lot of Bane's design are on the flawed side and they need some polish.

Bane specific:
1. Remove damage, defense, and speed reductions on venom cooldown. Shorten per venom stack by 1 to 1.5 seconds. Bane's gonna stay in the bottom half of the roster with this pointless design IMHO.
2. Add hit stun frames to jd3
3. Make highs connect after a jd3 on hit properly. No reason it should whiff because the opponent is considered crouching on hit...
4. Change command input for f2d into something else. Speed it up a bit while you're at it.
5. Reduce frame disadvantage for f2, at least enough for a max ranged one to not be punished so easily. Point blank? Yeah sure, go to town on Bane for it.
6. Add applicable armor to ring toss from using venom trait.
7. Speed up BF1 charge's startup frames.
8. Fix Super move to not get slapped by lows free on the start up or remove grab crush just frames.
9. Fix/remove d,db input enabling ring toss (normal input settings, not sure if this can be done in alt. input settings).
10. Speed up f3

General game specific:
1. Change string/special cancel input timings. Lotta weird shit going on that I can't explain.
2. Allow cancels off multiple directional attacks ala Street Fighter without going neutral. IE hitting d1, and unable to do d2 xx Double Punch unless you neutral the directional input or use alternative directions.
3. Drop interactive object damage to like 10-12%.

You can't remove the debuffs from Venom. It would be completely, utterly overpowered and uninteresting. It would go from a fairly balanced mechanic to the best thing in the entire game.

 

[Red Venom]

You can't remove the debuffs from Venom. It would be completely, utterly overpowered and uninteresting. It would go from a fairly balanced mechanic to the best thing in the entire game.

How Superman gets a damage buff in addition to armor breaking shutting down even level 3.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

You can't remove the debuffs from Venom. It would be completely, utterly overpowered and uninteresting. It would go from a fairly balanced mechanic to the best thing in the entire game.

You can just shorten the duration uptime to balance it. Bane would just play more in a neutral state than than having weakened state. This would make using venom an even more critical decision than before. The debuff is detrimental to this character IMHO. I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.

 

[HardlyWalken]

How Superman gets a damage buff in addition to armor breaking shutting down even level 3.

Because Superman is a big jerk who gets to Easy Mode everything. I don't know if you watched the WNF from 7/31 but the commentators are now openly mocking Superman as the game's villain and being hated by the community because of some of the silly design choices that NRS made.

Speaking of WNF, if you want to see the world's hypest Grundy watch the final match, it's crazy. Seriously!

http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/439006726?t=05h32m21s

 

[HardlyWalken]

Ok I guess I can put in my suggestions too, they are:

Level 1/2/3 Venom Cooldown penalties reduced to 95/80/66% damage done and 105/110/125% damage taken.
Standard Venom Armor (and projectile immunity, if on Level 3) on Ring Toss.
f2 less unsafe, still unsafe but not as bad. It is a bad move, please change it unless the design of the character is to punish failed execution on f2d.
Projectiles such as Gatling Gun and Lighting actually count as projectiles.
Double punch damage increased to 12%, it's doing projectile-level damage at this time and is a huge part of Bane's game but smart players don't fear it at all.
Dash cancel Venom Charge. I'll never stop hoping!

That's it for me.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

Ok I guess I can put in my suggestions too, they are:

Level 1/2/3 Venom Cooldown penalties reduced to 95/80/66% damage done and 105/110/125% damage taken.
Standard Venom Armor (and projectile immunity, if on Level 3) on Ring Toss.
f2 less unsafe, still unsafe but not as bad. It is a bad move, please change it unless the design of the character is to punish failed execution on f2d.
Projectiles such as Gatling Gun and Lighting actually count as projectiles.
Double punch damage increased to 12%, it's doing projectile-level damage at this time and is a huge part of Bane's game but smart players don't fear it at all.
Dash cancel Venom Charge. I'll never stop hoping!

That's it for me.

These are the most sensible suggestions...I hope they do at least a couple of them, especially some frame data change on f.2 and of course making charge dash cancel able before it hits the opponent. The mind games you could play on a dash cancel charge would be great.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Fixes
- Change the input command of F2d to something not retarded. (DF2 sounds good)
- Make projectiles, projectiles (this isn't really a Bane fix, rather than a fix to other characters)
- Eliminate the "sometimes I whiff because I can" property of the first 1 in his 113/112 series.

Buffs
- Take away the gawdawful damage scaling from D2 in combos
- A Charge cancel into any of the other armored moves (only capable during Venom)
- Cut the startup down on f1
or
- Give F1 shoulder high invinciblity
- Speed up D3
- After Charge connects, make Bane closer to opponent more consistently

 

[KeyserSoze]

Delete Superman and Black Adam