Discussion The 'Best to Worst' Variations For Each Character [5/22/16]

[Thefish]

But if you puke, someone can full combo you, and puking is likely against a pressure character.

Yeah I understand I suppose that's why he is where he is. There is ways around it though. Give him time

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Cassie, by and by, is a character that wants to be in your face just looking at her strings. Brawler affords her tick throws off some of her best tools/strings (D3/D4/212) as well and comboing on hit for a meter now so you don't even have to worry about whether your tick throw setups will work or not. It's her highest damage variation, affords extra mixups because of her overhead grab (331/overhead grab can be a bitch) and tick throws, and she also has the most armor of all the variations.

Tick throw is high risk low reward. Same for any kind of brawler mixup that replace the low in her common strings (also, 331/OH is fuzzyable, B212 and B21 OH is also fuzzyable). And MB command grab doesn't work on d3/d4/d1 on hit, go to the lab to test. (after whiffing command grab after d3 on hit she will be punished). You can only MB command grab after 212 on hit, but it's still a waste of meter, why not just hit confirm into flip, or randomly cancel into ex flip when you expect someone will get hit by 212 on purpose? Her armors in Brawler are good but nothing can beat ex nut punch. Brawler gets 2% more damage midsceen but loses 2-4% corner damage. Also the struggle against zoning (even Alist zoning can give her troubles) is one of the main weakness. Brawler is a easier version of Hollywood and useful for some matchups but overall Hollywood is the best

 

[SwegZero]

Bias has no barring on variation placement. What system do you have? I will play a quick FT5 with my subpar Brawler against your main. The variation is really good.

My main is GM Sub, but I'm terrible and play it wrong, so don't expect much. But I can't now, I can tomorrow. And I think bias does, because it's my book (at least a bit of it). I am the worst MK player.

 

[D. R.]

Impostor better than Bone Shaper?? I don't know about that. I'd say a lot more people struggle against Impostor because of the teleport 50/50s and lack of MU experience. Don't get me wrong, Impostor is a really good variation, but I still think Bone Shaper is a better variant.

Impostor doesn't even need 50/50s to win against a good portion of the cast. Lol There's a reason I quit posting tech here. I can't campaign for buffs while making him look S-tier.

#buffshinnok

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Impostor doesn't even need 50/50s to win against a good portion of the cast. Lol There's a reason I quit posting tech here. I can't campaign for buffs while making him look S-tier.

#buffshinnok

Pick courtyard or jungle, then Impostor 9-1 everyone

 

[D. R.]

Pick courtyard or jungle, then Impostor 9-1 everyone

Jensi Chamber allows him to compete with top 5 characters with ease.

Mash out of that corner interactable set up, I dare you.

 

[imblackjames]

i think brood mother is better then venomous

 

[Compbros]

Tick throw is high risk low reward. Same for any kind of brawler mixup that replace the low in her common strings (also, 331/OH is fuzzyable, B212 and B21 OH is also fuzzyable). And MB command grab doesn't work on d3/d4/d1 on hit, did you even lab? (after whiffing command grab after d3 on hit she will be punished). You can only MB command grab after 212 on hit, but it's still a waste of meter, why not just hit confirm into flip, or randomly cancel into ex flip when you expect someone will get hit by 212 on purpose? Her armors in Brawler are good but nothing can beat ex nut punch. Brawler gets 2% more damage midsceen but loses 2-4% corner damage. Also the struggle against zoning (even Alist zoning can give her troubles) is one of the main weakness. Brawler is a easier version of Hollywood and useful for some matchups but overall Hollywood is the best

It's not an abusable thing but it's effective for mind games. Cassie also has good oki so people don't want to be on the ground against her. B21/overhead requires some great recognition of the string because it's quick. People still get hit all the time by b212 let alone throwing another mixup on top of it. I didn't mean for all her tick throws but in terms of hitconfirming 212 into flipkick there's no need thanks to EX grab. I've played people that let go of block on the last hit of 212 because I would more than likely go for tick throw (sometimes I still flip kick to try and punish that or a jump out attempt) making it hard to hit confirm into flip kick. Personally? Because I want to stay on top of them. Sometimes I flip kick, sometimes I do nothing, sometimes I tick throw, but I always wanna be on them. When did Hollywood start doing 38 percent midscreen? I'll take away the corner though, I believe I was thinking of some impractible "combo video" damage for Brawler. EX nut punch is definitely her best armored moved especially with the invincibility frames, I said most not best. The zoning is the main thing keeping Brawler from the top spot IMO. To me there's nothing Hollywood has that Brawler doesn't minus a long range option.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

This is nitpicking, but I would vote Vicious > Lackey, although I don't know if other F/T mains would agree with me. I think it's close enough that it doesn't matter how you list them since it's super matchup dependent. My TL : DR reasoning is that Ferra is just too useful.

Lackey strengths:

• Godly D1
• Free armor on BF3
• ex Torryuken generally better than ex Ferra Throws
• Better Command Grab
• Stronger punishes
• Roll makes side switching convenient at times

Vicious strengths:

• Ferra makes many things better: much longer range Sweep, longer range & Overhead BF3, longer range & faster Overhead starter
• Ferra Toss/Bowl Girl mixup allows a 50/50 to be inserted into any string
• Ferra Toss allows any string to be made VERY plus on block, though sometimes whiffs females/skinnies
• Best NJP in game, no contest
• Wins most projectile trades/actually has projectiles
• Much better space control

Good thread btw, well organized and quite accurate. We've needed something like this.

 

[Zoidberg747]

i think brood mother is better then venomous

It is. Not even a question. Venemous sucks in the current state of the game.

 

[imblackjames]

This is nitpicking, but I would vote Vicious > Lackey, although I don't know if other F/T mains would agree with me. I think it's close enough that it doesn't matter how you list them since it's super matchup dependent. My TL : DR reasoning is that Ferra is just too useful.

Lackey strengths:

• Godly D1
• Free armor on BF3
• ex Torryuken generally better than ex Ferra Throws
• Better Command Grab
• Stronger punishes
• Roll makes side switching convenient at times

Vicious strengths:

• Ferra makes many things better: much longer range Sweep, longer range & Overhead BF3, longer range & faster Overhead starter
• Ferra Toss/Bowl Girl mixup allows a 50/50 to be inserted into any string
• Ferra Toss allows any string to be made VERY plus on block, though sometimes whiffs females/skinnies
• Best NJP in game, no contest
• Wins most projectile trades/actually has projectiles
• Much better space control

Good thread btw, well organized and quite accurate. We've needed something like this.

i disagree that vicious is better than lackey. i think the only reason ruthless is better than Lackey is because of the armor/damage pain and gain give you. vicious doesn't have that. so lackey is better imo

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

It's not an abusable thing but it's effective for mind games. Cassie also has good oki so people don't want to be on the ground against her. B21/overhead requires some great recognition of the string because it's quick. People still get hit all the time by b212 let alone throwing another mixup on top of it. I didn't mean for all her tick throws but in terms of hitconfirming 212 into flipkick there's no need thanks to EX grab. I've played people that let go of block on the last hit of 212 because I would more than likely go for tick throw (sometimes I still flip kick to try and punish that or a jump out attempt) making it hard to hit confirm into flip kick. Personally? Because I want to stay on top of them. Sometimes I flip kick, sometimes I do nothing, sometimes I tick throw, but I always wanna be on them

I understand what you mean and yes, the mixup is always there makes Brawler very scary. However most of the time, at high level, people play as a true footsie character, everyone wants to lower the risk, and talking about footsie, HW and Brawler are equally good. And getting hit by the low in B21 is more like a matchup inexperience problem, because it's the second hit, B21 OH is still not a true 50/50 it's fuzzyable, and full combo punishable on block

When did Hollywood start doing 38 percent midscreen? I'll take away the corner though, I believe I was thinking of some impractible "combo video" damage for Brawler. EX nut punch is definitely her best armored moved especially with the invincibility frames, I said most not best. The zoning is the main thing keeping Brawler from the top spot IMO. To me there's nothing Hollywood has that Brawler doesn't minus a long range option.

The damage is not the only thing that makes Hollywood better. It's the air gun and F34. F34 is a safe meterless overhead option. Everytime Hollywood gets plus frame, she can check people with F34 and if they guess wrong they eat 18%, and when they respect F34 HW can try DF1 and hit confirm into flip. F33 isn't safe (it's safe against some character but it's obviously not safe), so Brawler can't abuse F3 as effectively as HW. Yea F3 ex flip is safe but it eats meter so whatever. And the value of air gun is undeniable.
HW is also the only Cassie variation who can still scare Kung Jin, Mileena, Takeda.... after getting knocked down because she doesn't care about armor breaking setups
IMO HW is still the best, but only slightly better than Brawler in most matchups. Against Mournful and non Summoner Quan however, if you can instant air gun consistently you will have a really easy time raping them

 

[STB Damashi]

Impostor doesn't even need 50/50s to win against a good portion of the cast. Lol There's a reason I quit posting tech here. I can't campaign for buffs while making him look S-tier.

#buffshinnok

What tech lol, you always claim to have tech. I still think Bone Shaper goes at least even with most MUs, while Impostor Wins/goes even with less MUs when compared to Bone Shaper. Unless...you have something to - share??

 

[GodsPhoenix11]

smoke would be better than sektor in optimal play. despite his lack of armor the 50/50s are great and his smoke dash makes many safe moves full combo punishable

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Jensi Chamber allows him to compete with top 5 characters with ease.

Mash out of that corner interactable set up, I dare you.

But it can only be used once.....

 

[Element_]

I'm glad to see the ? over Tanya's name because it's very debatable which is her best variation. I think DN has a slight edge over Pyro, it's quite underrated. Kobu is her worst though.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I'm glad to see the ? over Tanya's name because it's very debatable which is her best variation. I think DN has a slight edge over Pyro, it's quite underrated. Kobu is her worst though.

Nope
If you don't have 10f armored reversal it's still a pain to deal with rekka. (Kitana, Predator, Quan....). DN is full of gimmick, Pyro does no damage.

 

[Element_]

Nope
If you don't have 10f armored reversal it's still a pain to deal with rekka. (Kitana, Predator, Quan....). DN is full of gimmick, Pyro does no damage.

I wasn't saying she's good. All variations are low tier. I just think DN wins. Pyro's damage midscreen is poor i agree. However, in the corner they both have decent damage.

 

[CompleteMadness]

I think covert ops Sonya is stronger than special forces. Also I don't use Alien, but tarkatan seems better then conjurer.

 

[CompleteMadness]

Tempest and Hat Trick are miles apart. The point being you wouldn't take his word as gospel in every situation so why would you in this one?

Not trying to say anything but didn't sonic fox lose to scars hat trick Lao in esl3 recently?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Idgaf if I'm the only one that thinks this but I think lasher is takedas best variation

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Not trying to say anything but didn't sonic fox lose to scars hat trick Lao in esl3 recently?

I believe so, but I don't know what that actually says about Hat Trick. Scar's Hat Trick is sort of amazing and it looked to me like Sonic was unexperienced against the variation.

 

[Blewdew]

Because I'll take the word of the best than a better player.

Compbros is The best spec ops Player

 

[SaSSolino]

I think Nimble is better than Deceptive

 

[Blewdew]

This is nitpicking, but I would vote Vicious > Lackey, although I don't know if other F/T mains would agree with me. I think it's close enough that it doesn't matter how you list them since it's super matchup dependent. My TL : DR reasoning is that Ferra is just too useful.

Lackey strengths:

• Godly D1
• Free armor on BF3
• ex Torryuken generally better than ex Ferra Throws
• Better Command Grab
• Stronger punishes
• Roll makes side switching convenient at times

Vicious strengths:

• Ferra makes many things better: much longer range Sweep, longer range & Overhead BF3, longer range & faster Overhead starter
• Ferra Toss/Bowl Girl mixup allows a 50/50 to be inserted into any string
• Ferra Toss allows any string to be made VERY plus on block, though sometimes whiffs females/skinnies
• Best NJP in game, no contest
• Wins most projectile trades/actually has projectiles
• Much better space control

Good thread btw, well organized and quite accurate. We've needed something like this.

Imo Lackey is better though But like you said it can go either way. Really matchup dependent