Tekken Tag Tournament 2 General Discussion

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

"will master wavedash ewgf tomorrow"

Damn, Qwark28 you are the most bad-ass S.O.B. I have ever met on the intnarwebzz. Wouldn't want to argue with you on Youtube . No but seriously one does not simply master anything in this game for months.

Heihachi/Kazuya actually do get netsu but it triggers when you have lost something like 70 % of health with the point character and you are just about to get pwned. People use tag assaults too much in combos anyways and will give you rage for free very often. In my opinion the bad Netsu relation with a Mishima team only serves to balance out the game.

"Oh noez I doez not haz teh 10 diffraent lows and gimmicks un teh tech-traps n cancels n 50/50 option selectss" Poor me, never getting Netsu or having super-duper cool gimmicks... Heihachi poo-poos all over the rest of the cast, easily one of the most versatile characters in the game with a short, simple, yet brutally effective moveset. The gimmick/stance characters will run out of canned/flowchart bullshit setups to screw people over with in the long run and against people who know the match-up, so don't pick up a shit tier character like for example Kunimitsu just because "oh yeah she spits fire! She can jump over you! She is so awesome!"

Aaaand referring to a previous discussion about Kazuya, using ws1,2 out of wavedash is useless, why would you use a short range while standing launcher that's -13 on block when you could just cancel a crouchdash into fF3 by pressing f3 (negative edge from the crouchdash input), a mid launcher that is -3 on block and leaves the opponent forced crouching, if it gets blocked you can easily backdash or sidestep/sidewalk out of the way if your opponent decides to mash out while standing attacks and whiff punish or just block/punish if they mash out a while standing move that is punishable on block.

 

[smokey]

"will master wavedash ewgf tomorrow"

Damn, Qwark28
Aaaand referring to a previous discussion about Kazuya, using ws1,2 out of wavedash is useless, why would you use a short range while standing launcher that's -13 on block when you could just cancel a crouchdash into fF3 by pressing f3 (negative edge from the crouchdash input), a mid launcher that is -3 on block and leaves the opponent forced crouching, if it gets blocked you can easily backdash or sidestep/sidewalk out of the way if your opponent decides to mash out while standing attacks and whiff punish or just block/punish if they mash out a while standing move that is punishable on block.

I would say that WS 1,2 is better because it comes out in 13 frames and launches for a better juggle than FF3 which is 20 frames, and you arent looking to have it blocked. If they are standing up and you wavedash you are gonna be using EWGF/Hellsweeps, thats pretty much the point of it.

 

[Qwark28]

"will master wavedash ewgf tomorrow"

Damn, Qwark28 you are the most bad-ass S.O.B. I have ever met on the intnarwebzz. Wouldn't want to argue with you on Youtube . No but seriously one does not simply master anything in this game for months.

Heihachi/Kazuya actually do get netsu but it triggers when you have lost something like 70 % of health with the point character and you are just about to get pwned. People use tag assaults too much in combos anyways and will give you rage for free very often. In my opinion the bad Netsu relation with a Mishima team only serves to balance out the game.

"Oh noez I doez not haz teh 10 diffraent lows and gimmicks un teh tech-traps n cancels n 50/50 option selectss" Poor me, never getting Netsu or having super-duper cool gimmicks... Heihachi poo-poos all over the rest of the cast, easily one of the most versatile characters in the game with a short, simple, yet brutally effective moveset. The gimmick/stance characters will run out of canned/flowchart bullshit setups to screw people over with in the long run and against people who know the match-up, so don't pick up a shit tier character like for example Kunimitsu just because "oh yeah she spits fire! She can jump over you! She is so awesome!"

Aaaand referring to a previous discussion about Kazuya, using ws1,2 out of wavedash is useless, why would you use a short range while standing launcher that's -13 on block when you could just cancel a crouchdash into fF3 by pressing f3 (negative edge from the crouchdash input), a mid launcher that is -3 on block and leaves the opponent forced crouching, if it gets blocked you can easily backdash or sidestep/sidewalk out of the way if your opponent decides to mash out while standing attacks and whiff punish or just block/punish if they mash out a while standing move that is punishable on block.

other than the fact i do double wavedash to ewgf 8/10 when ive been practicing it for less than a day

only things that worry me are P2 side wavedash ewgfs and then onto real matches but thats easier, took me about a week or serious gaming to get ewgf whenever i wanted to in regular games if lag doesnt fuck em up

ws1+2 is strictly for punishes, i had confused it with df 1 2, i dont see a use for the twin pistons other than punishing if you cant do pewgf

 

[Qwark28]

how is kunimitsu low tier if she has a 9f launcher

 

[smokey]

ws1+2 is strictly for punishes, i had confused it with df 1 2, i dont see a use for the twin pistons other than punishing if you cant do pewgf

Devil Kaz d/f+1,2 is Twin Pistons, his WS+1,2 and his d/f +1,2 are both the same move in devil form, that could be why you are confused. Imo his non-devil D/f+1 series is better to have because you can still get WS 1,2 when you need it.

 

[Qwark28]

the matchmaking for this game is retarded, why are you giving me a 4 bar option if my opponent can drop to 3

 

[Crathen]

Could Yoshimitsu players tell me all their Flash/1+4 setups? I'd really appreciate it.

EDIT: Stuff like f2 on block into flash

Crathen STRYKIE @~NAKM~

f+2 , NSS f+3+4 , ws1,2 off the top of my head , the f+2 ones are character specific tho , small hitbox characters can make the flash whiff due to hitboxes , also any opponents strings that leave him close to yoshis hitbox can be punished by flash ( or just be anticipated by flash if they press buttons ) , when i got a lil more time i'll list more , you can also check the Ep 18 of the strat corner podcast on youtube for some yoshi stuff.

Also WD into WS+1,2 is good because it's faster than ff3 , it's taggable and not launch punishable. D. Kaz df+1,2 is good because it's easier and tracks a little , you just can't always play it safe when you're playing Kazuya and you wanna weight the risk/reward.

It's almost 3 weeks i don't touch my ps3 , dang gotta shake that rust off...

 

[Qwark28]

in mk when it came to kabal i kept preaching execution doesnt equal skill

yet everytime i go online i get smashed by noobs autopilot those 10 hits strings or just repeating them, its like i have no footsie options at all

i dont feel like bothering re learning the execution for real matches.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I would say that WS 1,2 is better because it comes out in 13 frames and launches for a better juggle than FF3 which is 20 frames, and you arent looking to have it blocked. If they are standing up and you wavedash you are gonna be using EWGF/Hellsweeps, thats pretty much the point of it.

The start up frames won't matter as much when you are doing a move straight from forward movement, going for ws1,2 out of a crouchdash is just too ballsy imo and there is no guarantee whether or not your opponent will not interrupt you, where as fF3 is pretty much guaranteed to not get interrupted as an oki tool if your opponent does a guick get-up.

EDIT: Kazuya's df1 series both in human and devil form however are good moves to be able to cancel out of when wavedashing.

 

[smokey]

The start up frames won't matter as much when you are doing a move straight from forward movement, going for ws1,2 out of a crouchdash is just too ballsy imo and there is no guarantee whether or not your opponent will not interrupt you, where as fF3 is pretty much guaranteed to not get interrupted as an oki tool if your opponent does a guick get-up.

-13 isnt ballsy for the risk/reward of WS 1,2 a 13 frame 70+ damage mid which you can buffer tag off and can be used from wave-dash. He has better tools than WS 1,2 on oki for mid options, yes, but if people are ducking EWGF and blocking your Hellsweeps, you need to teach people not to duck, and FF3 just doesnt cut it.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

-13 isnt ballsy for the risk/reward of WS 1,2 a 13 frame 70+ damage mid which you can buffer tag off and can be used from wave-dash. He has better tools than WS 1,2 on oki for mid options, yes, but if people are ducking EWGF and blocking your Hellsweeps, you need to teach people not to duck, and FF3 just doesnt cut it.

fF3 - b2,4 - db2 - hellsweep left punch is 75 points and 89 with TA I do with Heihachi, so the non red life dmg doesn't really matter if the combo kills them. If someone is just ducking and standing back up as you get close you will get punished for the twin pistons, knocked down in most cases and your opponent is free to tag out safely.

 

[smokey]

fF3 - b2,4 - db2 - hellsweep left punch is 75 points and 89 with TA I do with Heihachi, so the non red life dmg doesn't really matter if the combo kills them. If someone is just ducking and standing back up as you get close you will get punished for the twin pistons, knocked down in most cases and your opponent is free to tag out safely.

I dont know, twin pistons is awesome, it does a much better job than FF3 but i guess i would probably use FF3 to check people if its gonna mean you get blown up for using ws 1,2, but at -13 you are really in favour on the risk/reward chart. The point of it is to stop people ducking your wavedash options, which as EWGF hits high and Hellsweeps hits low, looks like the best thing to do against someone wavedashing at you.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

how is kunimitsu low tier if she has a 9f launcher

Fastest moves in Tekken are jabs and crouch jabs at 10 frames. Certain parries and reversals have 1-3 frame startup. Bruce/Kazuya are the only ones with a 13 frame while standing launcher. Kazuya is the only one with a 13 frame standing launcher with mist step EWGF. Bryan/Jinpachi have 14 frame launchers on easy inputs that can be buffered during block stun, not sure if other characters have 14 frame launchers besides Mishimas.

Kunimitsu is generally very unsafe. She can be floated with jabs out of the flip/vault mix-up thing she does and her strings suck in general. Her throw out of the f3-dash can be broken by just ducking as you see her climb onto you, her 1+2 break throw deals no damage and leaves you and her backturned towards each other, I am not sure if she has frame advantage after it though. Her unblockables are highs. She has a couple of good whiff punishers but that's it.

 

[Qwark28]

only reason i play this game is for kaz, everyone else is an accessory, i dont like this game much when it comes to strings and such

hopefully ill iron out my online execution too...

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I dont know, twin pistons is awesome, it does a much better job than FF3 but i guess i would probably use FF3 to check people if its gonna mean you get blown up for using ws 1,2, but at -13 you are really in favour on the risk/reward chart. The point of it is to stop people ducking your wavedash options, which as EWGF hits high and Hellsweeps hits low, looks like the best thing to do against someone wavedashing at you.

I sure as hell will not duck/respect autopilot pocket Mishima wavedashing

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I dont know, twin pistons is awesome, it does a much better job than FF3 but i guess i would probably use FF3 to check people if its gonna mean you get blown up for using ws 1,2, but at -13 you are really in favour on the risk/reward chart. The point of it is to stop people ducking your wavedash options, which as EWGF hits high and Hellsweeps hits low, looks like the best thing to do against someone wavedashing at you.

I have read your back and forth

like.. i've had both used against me... and they both are good checks.
I know with King and AK i can punish Twin pistons with GS and iSW... which opens up other options... especially if you start ducking the throws.
Online I typically just jab into the throw for safety.

What is ff3 on block? I have no clue.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I have read your back and forth

like.. i've had both used against me... and they both are good checks.
I know with King and AK i can punish Twin pistons with GS and iSW... which opens up other options... especially if you start ducking the throws.
Online I typically just jab into the throw for safety.

What is ff3 on block? I have no clue.

-3 and you are forced crouching.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

-3 and you are forced crouching.

LOL!!! what amove.

 

[smokey]

I sure as hell will not duck/respect autopilot pocket Mishima wavedashing

You have to, good Mishima players will make you, unless you are some kind of machine that guesses and reacts right every time, they will get in your head.

I have read your back and forth

like.. i've had both used against me... and they both are good checks.
I know with King and AK i can punish Twin pistons with GS and iSW... which opens up other options... especially if you start ducking the throws.
Online I typically just jab into the throw for safety.

What is ff3 on block? I have no clue.

FF3 is -3 on block and OC i believe, pretty good for his oki game and a solid mid but its quite slow and hasnt got the best range to just throw it out there, out of wavedash i would just say its a bit slow.

What im saying is not that you wont punish twin pistons, or how you punish it, im just saying that as a mid option from wavedash, twin pistons does the job, and it being -13 will never deter a mishima player from brutalising you with it if you think you can duck.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I have played Mishima players who have been playing Tekken for years and it takes some serious skill to actually force someone to respect electrics out of wavedashing, they are still moving forward and can be hit during that time.

 

[smokey]

I have played Mishima players who have been playing Tekken for years and it takes some serious skill to actually force someone to respect electrics out of wavedashing, they are still moving forward and can be hit during that time.

I dont doubt it, mishimas are hard to play! If i got blown up by an electric for pushing buttons though i would immediately start thinking alot harder before pushing buttons again, its all mindgames, theres not really a set in stone answer to anything because theres always something else to consider

 

[I$AAC]

Well I've been playing this game more often. My psn is TheOnlyOne1980. My mains are Miguel, both Kings, and Bryan. I'm working on Bruce, Febg, and Steve.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Speaking of playing multiple characters, besides Heihachi/Kazuya and Bryan/Bruce, I would like to play Marduk, but I don't like any of the remaining cast members enough to actually take them seriously and put in the work to team Marduk up with somebody and I feel it's kinda confusing to put the same character in 2 different teams when doing TA combos.

 

[Pikachu]

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I played that Xiaishit/Miharu player again this weekend. Those 2 and the capos are seriously testing my mental fortitude. One of my regular sparring partners told me it's just a matter of getting used to their bullshit, I know this, but for me they just ruin the game. It's not fun/rewarding at all to have to desperately use only a handful of low to the ground mids and lows. Even if you whiff punish the capos for something with a mid launcher u get reduced damage and no launch at all, while they can launch you while laying on their ass from half a screen away. I am seriously contemplating about refusing to play vs Ling/Capos at all. If there is nobody playing those 5 at offline tourneys then I will definitely not learn these match ups. They have too much canned bullshit setups and evasive properties in comparison to the rest of the cast and they should be removed from the game. If I get to play this MU offline then I will learn it but otherwise it just takes too much time to figure out their bullshit when they can just fall back to one of their canned BS setups to steal the match with a TA even after getting floated and punished multiple times. It takes no fundamentals or ability to read your opponent or any skill what so ever to play these fkn POS mid-crushing fluke launcher characters. Yes, I am hella salty, cuz I find it hard to accept the fact that a game as good and balanced as TTT2 has a handful of absolutely retarded characters.