Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

[DragonofDadashov24]

I have not forgotten. I am still waiting for you to do your research about the various pre-patch versions of Street Fighter 5 and Tekken 7 before criticizing any pre-patch version of Mortal Kombat 11. Please share what you discover.

As far as balancing and patching 2D and 3D fighting games is concerned, both are equally difficult although I would argue that 2Ds are more difficult because developers must balance the up close game and the full screen game as well as every range in between. 3Ds are not fought outside of the up close game and the immediate mid range game.

Did you evev get what I mean? There have been 3 NRS GAMES released since T7 launch and they all suck in terms of balance and you tell me to compare the prepatch verion of a game that came out in 2015 to MK11? That’ll only prove NRS’s disability to learn from mistakes.

 

[Helter Skelter]

And? Have you forgotten MK11 prepatch? NRS released 3 games since 2015 and they’re all unbalanced while T7 devs have been focusing on perfecting the game since launch. Should I bring up Panda player winning a tourney? I’m not even talking about T7 being a 3d fighter that has more difficulties with patching than a 2d fighter.

I don't to come across as a NRS apologist or some shill but this is actually BS.

You mentioned Geras and Erron Black pre patch so I went on Evenhubs and checked the tournament results before Erron was nerfed in August.

They don't even remotely reflect what you're saying. There have been mirrors in MK11's Top 8 but on average you'll see the same character two (sometimes three) times max in most Top 8s before and after the August patch.

So what on earth are you talking about?

Also, please explain something to me if you don't mind.

Even if you're right about what you're saying with NRS and it's balance. You said that NRS have made three unbalanced games since 2015.

However, Tekken has been up and down in terms of balance since it's 2015 arcade release until now and that's just ONE game.

So what are you trying to really suggest?

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

I don't to come across as a NRS apologist or some shill but this is actually BS.

You mentioned Geras and Erron Black pre patch so I went on Evenhubs and checked the tournament results before Erron was nerfed in August.

They don't even remotely reflect what you're saying. There have been mirrors in MK11's Top 8 but on average you'll see the same character two (sometimes three) times max in most Top 8s before and after the August patch.

So what on earth are you talking about?

Also, please explain something to me if you don't mind.

Even if you're right about what you're saying with NRS and it's balance. You said that NRS have made three unbalanced games since 2015.

However, Tekken has been up and down in terms of balance since it's 2015 arcade release until now and that's just ONE game.

So what are you trying to really suggest?

That T7 improves it’s balance from patch to patch and NRS games don’t. In MK9 Kabal was shit, in MKX Jason was shit, in MK11 Geras is shit for about a year now. Harada wasn’t the one who said “Our game is now all about footsies” and then end up giving their character a mid teleport that pretty much says “Fuck footsie”.
How about I compare Tekken 8 to MK11? Its much easier to make a balanced game fron scratch than improving something that is fundamentally broken in a released game (Akuma). You can’t be serious about Erron and Geras prepatch, they were stupid broken. It’s only fair to comapare T7’s fuck ups with MKX that, if you’ve played enough, had Quan Chi who had a combo infinite for a couple of months.

 

[Helter Skelter]

That T7 improves it’s balance from patch to patch and NRS games don’t. In MK9 Kabal was shit, in MKX Jason was shit, in MK11 Geras is shit for about a year now. Harada wasn’t the one who said “Our game is now all about footsies” and then end up giving their character a mid teleport that pretty much says “Fuck footsie”.
How about I compare Tekken 8 to MK11? Its much easier to make a balanced game fron scratch than improving something that is fundamentally broken in a released game (Akuma). You can’t be serious about Erron and Geras prepatch, they were stupid broken. It’s only fair to comapare T7’s fuck ups with MKX that, if you’ve played enough, had Quan Chi who had a combo infinite for a couple of months.

Tekken 4 Jin

Tekken 5 Steve, Nina, Bryan and sometimes Feng

Tekken 6 Bob (lol), Lars

TTT2 Lars (he was on nearly ever team for a while)

Tekken 7 has had so many revisions to address it's balance I don't know where to start.

Perhaps, other players can educate me, but Shaheen, Kazumi, Akuma, Katarina, Jin, Geese and obviously Leroy have been areas of contention from my knowledge.

You're right about NRS having OP characters in all there games, but I have to completely disagree with your comment about it being easier to make a balanced game from scratch.

A new game is normally when a game is at it's most unbalanced.

Tekken has had over a two decades of foundation to build from. That's why it's as great as it is in my opinion.

MK would be better balanced if it had legacy, but when characters returned with legacy movesets in Injustice 2 people actually complained (I'm not making this up).

This Leroy situation is actually worse than EVO 2011 Bob, CEO 2015 Tanya, MKX Acidic (although that was just straight up stupid broken).

Anyway, this is derailing this thread but no character has been so OP at high level in MK11 that they can fill over half a Top 8 in a 1000 man bracket.

That's all I can say.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Tekken 4 Jin

Tekken 5 Steve, Nina, Bryan and sometimes Feng

Tekken 6 Bob (lol), Lars

TTT2 Lars (he was on nearly ever team for a while)

Tekken 7 has had so many revisions to address it's balance I don't know where to start.

Perhaps, other players can educate me, but Shaheen, Kazumi, Akuma, Katarina, Jin, Geese and obviously Leroy have been areas of contention from my knowledge.

You're right about NRS having OP characters in all there games, but I have to completely disagree with your comment about it being easier to make a balanced game from scratch.

A new game is normally when a game is at it's most unbalanced.

Tekken has had over a two decades of foundation to build from. That's why it's as great as it is in my opinion.

MK would be better balanced if it had legacy, but when characters returned with legacy movesets in Injustice 2 people actually complained (I'm not making this up).

This Leroy situation is actually worse than EVO 2011 Bob, CEO 2015 Tanya, MKX Acidic (although that was just straight up stupid broken).

Anyway, this is derailing this thread but no character has been so OP at high level in MK11 that they can fill over half a Top 8 in a 1000 man bracket.

That's all I can say.

Let’s agree to disagree then.

 

[DeftMonk]

Let’s agree to disagree then.

if erron's b2 had 10x more range was 0 on block and led to 70% of ur hp missing....then I would say yes, NRS is just as bad at balancing as namco. It just isn't that way though. Dont be rediculous.

 

[M2Dave]

Tekken 7 has had so many revisions to address it's balance I don't know where to start.

Perhaps, other players can educate me, but Shaheen, Kazumi, Akuma, Katarina, Jin, Geese and obviously Leroy have been areas of contention from my knowledge.

Thank you for doing your research.

The second hit of Shaheen's 4,1 jailed so you would see like twenty 4,1s per round. Shaheen's hopkick also had more push back on block and less recovery frames on whiff.

Claudio's hopkick also used to be much better and WR+2 almost did 40% of damage on its own.

Kazumi's d/f+1 had a lot more range and 1,1 was -1 on block so she would dominate up close.

Most people know about Akuma and Geese so there is no reason to discuss them.

The point is Street Fighter 5 is almost four years old while Tekken 7 is almost five years old. Mortal Kombat 11 is an infant in comparison. All three games continue having balancing issues, especially Tekken 7 at the moment, but Street Fighter 5 and Tekken 7 were far more unbalanced than Mortal Kombat 11 eight months after release. I must say that the Capcom community is happy for the first time. More characters than ever before were represented at EVO Japan and a Sakura player won the event. The game was fun to spectate early this morning.

 

[DeftMonk]

Thank you for doing your research.

The second hit of Shaheen's 4,1 jailed so you would see like twenty 4,1s per round. Shaheen's hopkick also had more push back on block and less recovery frames on whiff.

Claudio's hopkick also used to be much better and WR+2 almost did 40% of damage on its own.

Kazumi's d/f+1 had a lot more range and 1,1 was -1 on block so she would dominate up close.

Most people know about Akuma and Geese so there is no reason to discuss them.

The point is Street Fighter 5 is almost four years old while Tekken 7 is almost five years old. Mortal Kombat 11 is an infant in comparison. All three games continue having balancing issues, especially Tekken 7 at the moment, but Street Fighter 5 and Tekken 7 were far more unbalanced than Mortal Kombat 11 eight months after release. I must say that the Capcom community is happy for the first time. More characters than ever before were represented at EVO Japan and a Sakura player won the event. The game was fun to spectate early this morning.

I stopped playing 5 maybe a year after it came out. Did they change anything about the base mechanics in the current iteration or is it just same stuff more characters more ultras? Honestly street fighter without plinking feels hella weird to me.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lmao these patch notes are trash.

 

[NaCl man]

Lmao these patch notes are trash.

There will have to be more incoming. My guess is this was put together before the shit show that was evo japan. Fingers crossed because it has really tarnished the game when it was doing so well.
Fighting game devs need to stop dumbing down games/characters for the casual players. It's now getting beyond a joke.

 

[DeftMonk]

This sucks. Leroy has that parry everything bullshit why give him all these ch launchers? I wish they just remove him to be honest. All i see online atm is Leroy.

 

[NaCl man]

This sucks. Leroy has that parry everything bullshit why give him all these ch launchers? I wish they just remove him to be honest. All i see online atm is Leroy.

Just confirmed by Michael Murray that this patch was put together well before evo japan. There was going to be a bigger patch with the release of fukuman but they are trying to speed it up to come out before.

 

[DeftMonk]

Just confirmed by Michael Murray that this patch was put together well before evo japan. There was going to be a bigger patch with the release of fukuman but they are trying to speed it up to come out before.

Only real thing of note they did was make that orbital -8 in the patch. Since his parry comes out in 2 frames though you still gotta be scared to hit buttons unless you're yoshimitsu. I saw that post your talking about...I sincerely hope its an assload of frame data nerfs otherwise it won't be enough imo.

 

[DeftMonk]

@M2Dave @NaCl man I have seen lots of pros talking shit about season 3 in last few days and also Aris (don't really listen to Aris' opinion though very seriously myself). I skiipped season 2 but I just wanna ask you guys...do you think season 3 is noticably worse tekken than season 2? Leroy aside because obviously hes dumb af.

 

[NaCl man]

@M2Dave @NaCl man I have seen lots of pros talking shit about season 3 in last few days and also Aris (don't really listen to Aris' opinion though very seriously myself). I skiipped season 2 but I just wanna ask you guys...do you think season 3 is noticably worse tekken than season 2? Leroy aside because obviously hes dumb af.

Like all updates it has pros and cons.
Season 2 was near perfection imo just the tops needed toning down. The 2d characters were a problem and still are. There have been good changes with season 3. I like the mishima change where you get more damage from electrics over normal wind god fist. We will see what the new patch brings in mid feb.

 

[M2Dave]

@M2Dave @NaCl man I have seen lots of pros talking shit about season 3 in last few days and also Aris (don't really listen to Aris' opinion though very seriously myself). I skiipped season 2 but I just wanna ask you guys...do you think season 3 is noticably worse tekken than season 2? Leroy aside because obviously hes dumb af.

From what I have seen and heard, most people seem to be enjoying the game aside from Leroy who is ruining the meta, balance, and tournaments. Namco has really stained Tekken 7's legacy with this Leroy fiasco.

 

[DeftMonk]

Man not that I am not super happy with the nerf to d1+2 and ff3 for leroy, but eventually people will just base their whole offense off that parry. That shit is so good that his kit outside of that should be ass imo. Best parry in game + auto low parry stance should mean trex arms on everything and launchers are slow (12frame ch launcher im lookin @u).

But until leroy players start changing their gameplan I am super enjoying this shit. Made a leroy plug on me just now cus side step left gives you leroys back if he ff3s now. Easy peasy ass load of damage.

edit: leroy still stupid. fuck leroy.

 

[Eddy Wang]

@M2Dave @NaCl man I have seen lots of pros talking shit about season 3 in last few days and also Aris (don't really listen to Aris' opinion though very seriously myself). I skiipped season 2 but I just wanna ask you guys...do you think season 3 is noticably worse tekken than season 2? Leroy aside because obviously hes dumb af.

Season 2 was godlike

 

[DeftMonk]

Season 2 was godlike

Well damn I am sad I missed out on it. I am enjoying season 3 a lot but I've heard nearly every streamer or pro mention at some point season 3 is obviously worse. Usual reason I hear is archetypes seem to be less of a thing now that everyone has less weaknesses / can combo and wall carry well. But I don't think thats a reason to say game is worse...

 

[Eddy Wang]

Well damn I am sad I missed out on it. I am enjoying season 3 a lot but I've heard nearly every streamer or pro mention at some point season 3 is obviously worse. Usual reason I hear is archetypes seem to be less of a thing now that everyone has less weaknesses / can combo and wall carry well. But I don't think thats a reason to say game is worse...

season 3 everyone does wall carry,playing hehachi for example is useless in this season, everyone has big wall carry combos and does equal or suppass the damage output he previously had.

Lee was a true treat to high level execution players, his stuff was extremely hard, but if you had it down, you would be playing a very different game where the the rewards with the insane links would suit your lee.

Jin was on nirvana state, best control in the game, and better rewards too, if you were playing jin and you knew exactly how your opponent was playing you would easily understand the flow of the match to shift into your favor.

It was hard to see a trash character overall, Gesse and Akuma were always stupid, but i think they still are, if not worse now with TODs

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

season 3 everyone does wall carry,playing hehachi for example is useless in this season, everyone has big wall carry combos and does equal or suppass the damage output he previously had.

Lee was a true treat to high level execution players, his stuff was extremely hard, but if you had it down, you would be playing a very different game where the the rewards with the insane links would suit your lee.

Jin was on nirvana state, best control in the game, and better rewards too, if you were playing jin and you knew exactly how your opponent was playing you would easily understand the flow of the match to shift into your favor.

It was hard to see a trash character overall, Gesse and Akuma were always stupid, but i think they still are, if not worse now with TODs

Well, Gigas suffers a lot

 

[DeftMonk]

Well, Gigas suffers a lot

who cares about gigas.

 

[NHDR]

Supposedly Leroy is very good now but no longer broken. If that's the case, good that they addressed it fairly quickly.

 

[DeftMonk]

I was just watching this main man video where he was hating on lei so hard. I swear I dunno how easy it is in North America to bop people with him but he acts like lei is the bane of tekken. I mean lei is in a place I can’t really complain about apart from a few things (way the two parrys work in drunken stance is the main one). But his offense is so linear you really have to be creative imo to play him in asia or you will get destroyed.
If you play him for like 2 weeks u will not have problems with him in the future other than maybe that sweep which sometimes can’t really do shit about.
Anyone know when fhakukram comes out?

 

[DeftMonk]

I been playing Leroy lately now that hes nerfed. When I need break from mains. I honestly think they undertuned him a bit. He feels like a less good law now. D1+2 not launching on CH and his oki being meh was a dumb change imo. They shoulda kept ch launch but death on whiff,-13 on block. I feel to play him at a really high level (especially since everyone knows this matchup now). You need to have a shitload of matchup knowledge like what strings can be parried into cane/df2 etc. This makes it interesting to me but I am curious as to what you guys think. I basically just play him hella defensive and bait shit then react with lowparry or b2 then go for wall carry. His game on wall is still super gross.
Also that stance is lacking a 10 frame move. Characters with long reach butt rape u in neutral if u go for it without a string leading to it. This means u have to bank on a string landing to get into it since on block everything is so negative depending on ur enemy usually have a good answer to all ur options esp if they have quick move with good tracking.