Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

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whem f4~zen hits jin gets a 50-50 mixup, he can get CD4 or ff3, but these both options are not guaranteed though they're pretty hard to block, you can still button your way out, however 1+2 out of zen frame traps anything else since its +12 on hit.

there is a case tho which cherryberrymango was explaining, though i forgot so ask a dude to test today, bf23 on crouch characters, according to CBM, the if the second hit of the move hits crouched chars, 1+2 out of zen becomes guaranteed, so if someone is hitting you with bf23 better off blocking on hit and don't press any buttons, but you will be put into a 50-50 mixup right after tho.

I would just go for a CDS 1 if I landed an f4-CDS on normal hit most of the time. Only way to get blown up for it is to have the CDS 1 parried or reversed, and the reversal can be chicken buffered by just mashing f1+3 after the CDS1. Enforcing a frame trap with a high is also an all or nothing play, although CDS 1+2 every now and then should be used just to give your opponent more to think about. But that mix-up you described is poor and very risky IMO since they can just duck long enough for the CDS1+2 to whiff then stick out a generic d4 to interrupt you once they visually confirm that they have recovered into crouch and you are transitioning into crouchdash, only risk they are taking is getting hit by faster mids that don't launch. Worse yet they could throw out a WS launcher after a short crouching period. CDS 1 is the go-to option most of the time IMO because it truly locks them down and you have the threat of the 2nd hit and you can chase their backdash with a running 3 to maintain your pressure if you read them respecting the 2nd hit... or maybe go into CDS with d1+2 and go for instant 4 out of it to mix them up when the situation is effectively at neutral and you have visually confirmed that they didn't press buttons out of their block stun and they chose to move.

Going for pseudo-frame trap mix-ups and giving up your actual frame advantage is what I've been trying to cut out of my Heihachi play and I think the same applies to Jin. Their mids are too good and lows too shitty, Hei can use generic d4 after only +4 or more and that can't be hop kicked, but Jin needs +8 or more to use his fastest low which is his command d4 that's i16... I'd just go for throws with Jin as the mix-up since you don't need as many frames to not get hop kicked, if the opponent ducks well then they duck but at least they can't escape the low/throw with a hop kick.

I think the fF3/CD4 mix-up is better applied on knockdowns or "out of nowhere" at neutral, rather than after your + frames. Or rather use CD4 early on in the round when you can afford to eat a launcher to potentially secure a healthy lifelead then just play less risky after that to protect your lifelead... or just go ham after it and try to win the round right then and there.

 

[Eddy Wang]

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I would just go for a CDS 1 if I landed an f4-CDS on normal hit most of the time. Only way to get blown up for it is to have the CDS 1 parried or reversed, and the reversal can be chicken buffered by just mashing f1+3 after the CDS1. Enforcing a frame trap with a high is also an all or nothing play, although CDS 1+2 every now and then should be used just to give your opponent more to think about. But that mix-up you described is poor and very risky IMO since they can just duck long enough for the CDS1+2 to whiff then stick out a generic d4 to interrupt you once they visually confirm that they have recovered into crouch and you are transitioning into crouchdash, only risk they are taking is getting hit by faster mids that don't launch. Worse yet they could throw out a WS launcher after a short crouching period. CDS 1 is the go-to option most of the time IMO because it truly locks them down and you have the threat of the 2nd hit and you can chase their backdash with a running 3 to maintain your pressure if you read them respecting the 2nd hit... or maybe go into CDS with d1+2 and go for instant 4 out of it to mix them up when the situation is effectively at neutral and you have visually confirmed that they didn't press buttons out of their block stun and they chose to move.

Going for pseudo-frame trap mix-ups and giving up your actual frame advantage is what I've been trying to cut out of my Heihachi play and I think the same applies to Jin. Their mids are too good and lows too shitty, Hei can use generic d4 after only +4 or more and that can't be hop kicked, but Jin needs +8 or more to use his fastest low which is his command d4 that's i16... I'd just go for throws with Jin as the mix-up since you don't need as many frames to not get hop kicked, if the opponent ducks well then they duck but at least they can't escape the low/throw with a hop kick.

I think the fF3/CD4 mix-up is better applied on knockdowns or "out of nowhere" at neutral, rather than after your + frames. Or rather use CD4 early on in the round when you can afford to eat a launcher to potentially secure a healthy lifelead then just play less risky after that to protect your lifelead... or just go ham after it and try to win the round right then and there.

If you get hit by F4~zen or bf23~zen trying to recover in duck won't make you escape 1+2 out of zen it will launch, that is what CBM was saying

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Whaaaat that is some dirty stuff. Even if you fuzzy guard the CDS follow-ups by stand blocking briefly then try to duck CDS 4, Jin could probably do a crouchdash transition into ws4 and have it be a frame trap... as in you wouldn't be able to interrupt with an attack, maybe sidestep the ws4 but damn... gotta figure out how it works... Then hop on the Jin band wagon and maybe finally pick him up

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

It used to be that when Jin did f4-CDS-crouchdash-block and you blocked the f4, Jin was left at around -8 or -7 when he executed that sequence properly. If all the CDS transitions have faster recovery then Jin is going to be really hard to deal with. Imagine if he is left at like -3 and after the block he could still transition into a sidestep or a sidewalk and make you whiff your df1 counterpoke... what if you can't interrupt f4 into CDS 1 when you block f4? That'd be total bullshit. F4 on block would be instant offence.

 

[Eddy Wang]

It used to be that when Jin did f4-CDS-crouchdash-block and you blocked the f4, Jin was left at around -8 or -7 when he executed that sequence properly. If all the CDS transitions have faster recovery then Jin is going to be really hard to deal with. Imagine if he is left at like -3 and after the block he could still transition into a sidestep or a sidewalk and make you whiff your df1 counterpoke... what if you can't interrupt f4 into CDS 1 when you block f4? That'd be total bullshit. F4 on block would be instant offence.

They buffed F4~zen

F4~zen its +2 on block now, ubber plus on hit enough to frame trap his 1+2 out of zen on hit or on block as a 11f mid launcher.

Practically speaking it can no longer be interrupted with i13 mids anymore, it needs to e a 10f high, which its a bad idea since Zen now high crushes. Besides doing F4~zen is fully optional since doing F4 max ranged its also safe and good enough to bait buttons or keep them at bay, Harada buffed his F4 and its now his main space control tool, even when you're struggly if you pick your moments every well with F4 the opponent will have a hard time trying shit due the frame traps, and baits with EWHF, and so on.

If you block F4~zen the best option is block and back dash, and if you read a 1+2 zen then the best option is to step since its vulnerable to it you can bait 1+2 zen by duck after you BLOCK it, but if you get hit by one you're in for some serious business.

Besides trying to respond Jin with step or neutral crouch, remember that he has a homing launch safe on CH mid now that comes out of Zen or Ws3, so this raises the stakes high as hell since its also wallsplats and increases his oki game at the wall.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Usually I just start either backdashing or check Jin with a generic d4 after he does f4-CDS and I block it, but now it looks like it's going to be possible for him to do f4-CDS-Crouchdash into hop kick to crush the d4.

I think they must have buffed the speed of all CDS transitions instead of buffing the moves that lead into them. IMO f4 on block without CDS doesn't really bait buttons because the blockstun is very heavy and the animation is distinctly different whether Jin transitions or does not. However it is going to be very easy to catch people with CDS 1+2 if they are sloppy with how they react to the transitions.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Usually I just start either backdashing or check Jin with a generic d4 after he does f4-CDS and I block it, but now it looks like it's going to be possible for him to do f4-CDS-Crouchdash into hop kick to crush the d4.

I think they must have buffed the speed of all CDS transitions instead of buffing the moves that lead into them. IMO f4 on block without CDS doesn't really bait buttons because the blockstun is very heavy and the animation is distinctly different whether Jin transitions or does not. However it is going to be very easy to catch people with CDS 1+2 if they are sloppy with how they react to the transitions.

CDS3 crushes lows

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

CDS3 crushes lows

That doesn't matter because it's a high. Generic d4 recovers crouching and faster than CDS 3.

 

[Eddy Wang]

That doesn't matter because it's a high. Generic d4 recovers crouching and faster than CDS 3.

You mean CDS3+4 the new CDS3 its a hook kick with good range as ws3 but better that hits mid, its a homing move and -9 on block crushes lows and launches on CH

Come to the dark side Smoke

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

You mean CDS3+4 the new CDS3 its a hook kick with good range as ws3 but better that hits mid, its a homing move and -9 on block crushes lows and launches on CH


Come to the dark side Smoke

Wuuuuut? Jin has too much BS, Harada halp pls nerf I don't want to adapt . Just kidding though, I was playing Jin in ghost battle the other day and I was thinking to myself about stuff like how he is going to be able to convert random floats almost better than anyone else in T7 considering his jab strings go into tail spin, he has i13 poke into tailspin and his standing 4 as a fast stand-alone button tailspins, I was also thinking "man, b3 should be better" in T7 it's going to be a legit CH launcher that leads to good damage.

I'd just need practice hit/block confirming the moves with CDS transitions, also the b2,1 pick-up from f4 requires a lot of practice to nail consistently. using 2,4 as the i10 punish would take some time getting used to as I've only had to use 112, 14 and 143. Aside from the basics Jin has sooooo much dirt to be found and explored it's crazy.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I'd just need practice hit/block confirming the moves with CDS transitions, also the b2,1 pick-up from f4 requires a lot of practice to nail consistently. using 2,4 as the i10 punish would take some time getting used to as I've only had to use 112, 14 and 143. Aside from the basics Jin has sooooo much dirt to be found and explored it's crazy.

FYI, ws4 into b21 124 is a much better pick up, i've been doing it a lot in TTT2 just to get the timing and it got i down in a few minutes, besides in the gif below there is the bf23~CDS3 which is also his new filler from ws4 pick up combos.

When you try to recover on crouch, or step after F4~zen hits lol

 

[Eddy Wang]

One last gif, just look how CDS3 destroyed the wakeup, it didn't matter it was a wakeup low, he just doesn't care CDS is now serious bussiness.

~

EWHF CDS3+4, B3~f~1, 2, dash b21 W! 2, db223, 50/50 with CD4, bf23 (second hit whiffs) Jin goes into zen, opponent tries to wakeup gets hit by CDS3 lol, dies.

 

[zaccbarias]

so what stick are you guys gonna get? word on the street is madcatz sticks are teh shit. but i dont have enough cash for that lol. im very very comfy with the old ps3 hori V3 (non-hayabusa i think), but people have been telling me that hori sticks generally suck compared to the other ones (madcatz, qanba?). Im actually leaning towards the hori 2017 version coz its affordable.

Posted in T7 thread bec i only play stick in tekken.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

No clue who Im going to try to learn first. Honestly Akuma looks dope as hell. Feng does too.

Who all are considered 'simple' characters from an execution and application of game-plan standpoint?

 

[Eddy Wang]

No clue who Im going to try to learn first. Honestly Akuma looks dope as hell. Feng does too.

Who all are considered 'simple' characters from an execution and application of game-plan standpoint?

Easy dificulty:
Alisa, Claudio, Bob, Asuka, Jack-7, Gigas, Katarina and Shaheen, Lars, Leo, Kazumi, Miguel

Those chars don't have super complicated inputs and in many cases its easy to enforce their games

Asuka for example is a character with a good defense, good panic buttons and one of the best ranged whiff punishes in the game, while other require more training her ranged punish makes up for those who lack movement.

So these are beginner friendly.

 

[Azarashi Elder]

so what stick are you guys gonna get? word on the street is madcatz sticks are teh shit. but i dont have enough cash for that lol. im very very comfy with the old ps3 hori V3 (non-hayabusa i think), but people have been telling me that hori sticks generally suck compared to the other ones (madcatz, qanba?). Im actually leaning towards the hori 2017 version coz its affordable.

Posted in T7 thread bec i only play stick in tekken.

I only play with stick, period (boy that doesn't sound right... nevermind), and I'm afraid that you may run into a lot of Tekken players that use pad, so they won't be able to help you.

Personally, I'm quite used to Hori sticks as a brand, and I think some of the naysayers may be voicing their personal opinions. However, take what I say with a teaspoon (and I say teaspoon, not pinch) of salt, because I'm quite new to arcade sticks, in the sense that I have never customized one. Some people prefer Sanwa buttons and Sanwa sticks (and you can usually buy those separately and throw those in anything), but I haven't played with enough different brands to really form a preference, one way or another.

As far as Mad Catz specifically, I can tell you that the company has just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, so there will be no new peripherals on the market from them. If you want one of their sticks, you're dealing with the used market now. The price will be a lot cheaper, but be wary, since used sticks are going to have some wear and tear. It may be worth it to save money towards a new one, or get a cheap stick that you can customize yourself. In that case, any good case will do, unless you'd rather build it from scratch and do all the wirework yourself. I'm not sure what the cost of that would be though, so do some research.

 

[zaccbarias]

I only play with stick, period (boy that doesn't sound right... nevermind), and I'm afraid that you may run into a lot of Tekken players that use pad, so they won't be able to help you.

Personally, I'm quite used to Hori sticks as a brand, and I think some of the naysayers may be voicing their personal opinions. However, take what I say with a teaspoon (and I say teaspoon, not pinch) of salt, because I'm quite new to arcade sticks, in the sense that I have never customized one. Some people prefer Sanwa buttons and Sanwa sticks (and you can usually buy those separately and throw those in anything), but I haven't played with enough different brands to really form a preference, one way or another.

As far as Mad Catz specifically, I can tell you that the company has just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, so there will be no new peripherals on the market from them. If you want one of their sticks, you're dealing with the used market now. The price will be a lot cheaper, but be wary, since used sticks are going to have some wear and tear. It may be worth it to save money towards a new one, or get a cheap stick that you can customize yourself. In that case, any good case will do, unless you'd rather build it from scratch and do all the wirework yourself. I'm not sure what the cost of that would be though, so do some research.

Yeah, heard of what happened with Mad Catz too. Shame.

Anyway, yeah i think it all boils down to your preference, I'm okay with the hori stick, but I have not handled another stick before (lol). So I might be missing out?

I've heard somewhere that Harada said that ps3 sticks would work in the ps4 version?

 

[Azarashi Elder]

Yeah, heard of what happened with Mad Catz too. Shame.

Anyway, yeah i think it all boils down to your preference, I'm okay with the hori stick, but I have not handled another stick before (lol). So I might be missing out?

I've heard somewhere that Harada said that ps3 sticks would work in the ps4 version?

Yup. That's correct. There was no mention of 360 sticks at all, which goes to show you how screwed XBOX fighting games are (lol). But I bought my XB1 for Killer Instinct (a game I no longer play, but had some fun with) and I've been enjoying the console otherwise, so I really can't complain.

Still, a PS4 buy may be due next year, depending on the size of the XB FGC for INJ2 & possibly Tekken 7, the console of choice for online tournaments and some other factors.

Getting back to fightsticks here, I can tell you that I'm considering replacing just my joystick for a brand new one online. See, my Hori stick is used and I've had it for two years and I may decide I want the precision of a new part, without any wear. Recently, I've been attempting to learn Korean backdashing and forward dashing, with my stick in Tekken Tag 2, using the backwards compatibility feature on XBOX One, with some mixed results.

Long story short, I'm getting a lot of unwanted inputs, when I attempt to release the stick, so that it returns to neutral. It's nothing that would matter too much for Injustice, but a fighter like Tekken, which demands execution, may require a stick up to the task.

So again. Be very careful regarding your stick purchase. Lean towards new, and consider your options carefully. That's my advice.

 

[Kooron Nation]

What it's like fighting Eddy

 

[SaltShaker]

#NerfJin

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

No clue who Im going to try to learn first. Honestly Akuma looks dope as hell. Feng does too.

Who all are considered 'simple' characters from an execution and application of game-plan standpoint?

In my opinion all characters have something that requires a lot of practice, some more than others but if you like a character and you like the game then you will want to learn how to execute your chosen character anyway. What's more important IMO is what type of playstyle you want to implement. All characters are designed on a "something's gotta give"-principle, as in they have weaknesses in certain areas of the game to counteract their strengths, but there are a few that are all-around decent, just not retarded good in any aspect. It is up to you if you can accept the particular weaknesses of a character because you want to enjoy the strengths of the character more than the weaknesses bother you. If you find yourself bitching about your character somewhere down the line then you have not made peace with the actual character design and should try someone else. Anyone who feels awkward to you is automatically crossed out.

The starter character I would personally suggest is Marshall Law. He has a lot of "generic" moves that other characters have as well and learning how to use these will be very important. Even if you drop the character these will carry over (generic df1, generic d4, running 3, standing 4, hop kick, generic df2). His DSS cancels and combos require some practice but I wouldn't call him a high execution character. Slide motion is something you'll definitely practice but it's easy to get down really.

 

[vegeta]

Well here's two of my matches that got recorded from Final Round. Don't expect too much I was still just kind of experimenting and getting used to stuff (mostly movement with which using Jin I still feel pretty restrained or stiff). But just figured I'd post nonetheless. When I get my hands on the game I'll drastically improve obviously much like everyone here. I hadn't touched tag2 or any tekken since Wizard World in September before that either so a bit of rust. That said I did better as the weekend went on and found that for some reason right now as it stands using Devil Jin in casuals off screen, even against the new characters I played and did WAY better than with either Jin or Lili. I chalk that up to him probably not changing as much mechanics wise.

Many people told me I should have just stayed jin in both matches and adjusted/adapted to what my opponents were doing and I could have won but again....don't have the game yet so I wanted to play both *Shrug*

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Easy dificulty:
Alisa, Claudio, Bob, Asuka, Jack-7, Gigas, Katarina and Shaheen, Lars, Leo, Kazumi, Miguel

Those chars don't have super complicated inputs and in many cases its easy to enforce their games

Asuka for example is a character with a good defense, good panic buttons and one of the best ranged whiff punishes in the game, while other require more training her ranged punish makes up for those who lack movement.

So these are beginner friendly.

Thanks, gonna do some googling.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

In my opinion all characters have something that requires a lot of practice, some more than others but if you like a character and you like the game then you will want to learn how to execute your chosen character anyway. What's more important IMO is what type of playstyle you want to implement. All characters are designed on a "something's gotta give"-principle, as in they have weaknesses in certain areas of the game to counteract their strengths, but there are a few that are all-around decent, just not (soap bar in my mouth) good in any aspect. It is up to you if you can accept the particular weaknesses of a character because you want to enjoy the strengths of the character more than the weaknesses bother you. If you find yourself bitching about your character somewhere down the line then you have not made peace with the actual character design and should try someone else. Anyone who feels awkward to you is automatically crossed out.

The starter character I would personally suggest is Marshall Law. He has a lot of "generic" moves that other characters have as well and learning how to use these will be very important. Even if you drop the character these will carry over (generic df1, generic d4, running 3, standing 4, hop kick, generic df2). His DSS cancels and combos require some practice but I wouldn't call him a high execution character. Slide motion is something you'll definitely practice but it's easy to get down really.

I'm usually a fan of characters that move well and have good mobility in general..I usually feel most comfortable when I can move around more or less freely. I also tend to favor characters with moves that look like what they are.. which I know sounds kind of weird.. but to try and use a very basic example, take two characters that both have a whiff punish move, both moves are equally good and have similar frame data , one is just an obvious, straight forward looking punch and one is some weird spinning kick thing or something.. I am usually more comfortable on the guy who threw a normal looking punch. I guess another way to say it is I like characters with a clear visual language to their moveset.

As an example, in sfiv I mained Decapre. High speed, enormous mobility, and at least to me, her moves looked like what they did. If it looked like an AA it worked as an AA. In SFV.. well, that's a different story, but I have finally settled in Karin/Cammy. Again, mobility, clean and clear visual language, speed.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Well here's two of my matches that got recorded from Final Round. Don't expect too much I was still just kind of experimenting and getting used to stuff (mostly movement with which using Jin I still feel pretty restrained or stiff). But just figured I'd post nonetheless. When I get my hands on the game I'll drastically improve obviously much like everyone here. I hadn't touched tag2 or any tekken since Wizard World in September before that either so a bit of rust. That said I did better as the weekend went on and found that for some reason right now as it stands using Devil Jin in casuals off screen, even against the new characters I played and did WAY better than with either Jin or Lili. I chalk that up to him probably not changing as much mechanics wise.

Many people told me I should have just stayed jin in both matches and adjusted/adapted to what my opponents were doing and I could have won but again....don't have the game yet so I wanted to play both *Shrug*

i felt your struggle, but i don't really blame you, you don't have the game, and you went on vs JDCR, for a player who never touched the game i believe you did the best you could.

Just less than 50 days man, whe're almost there.