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Match-up Discussion Superman Matchup Discussion

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xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
VAT!!!! I though you need the collectors edition to get it. What WB account is it, I NEEED IT!!! Please :).
Idk man, I have the BE....the webid is injusticestuff@gmail dot com. Password I'm a bit fuzzy on, I think it's asstastic01 or something. Look it up on reddit


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MrAvA

Smashing.
Idk man, I have the BE....the webid is injusticestuff@gmail dot com. Password I'm a bit fuzzy on, I think it's asstastic01 or something. Look it up on reddit


Sent from my iPhone
I only already use that account and no new 52 :mad:, Oh well I guess I'll have to wait for them to release it.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
I'm guessing because the trolls keep coming in here with their nerf demanding. Most of the top supes left for a while (hopefully they will come back)
 

KDZ

It's amore, BABY.
Thanks Nori. This is the game you moved on to?

Dan, what issues are you running into?
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
Thanks Nori. This is the game you moved on to?
Yeah, I had a personal issue happen last year and really stepped back from the FG community for the first time in 9 years. I'm back in it, part time and wanted a fun FG. I'm just selling my soul and playing both BA and Superman. How you liking this game so far?
 

KDZ

It's amore, BABY.
Favorite game in years. Maybe due to Superman being my favorite superhero, and not terrible. Maybe due to how decision-based the engine is.

To fight the flash, you have to remember that:
a) You can backdash his mixup easily, when placed in frametraps.
b) NEVER let yourself get cornered. If you get cornered, do everything you can to get out. Everything.
c) Waking up with Breath works well if they try to run the high-low on you when you're knocked-down, because the first hit of the mixup has limited active frames. This will fail vs most other meaty attacks, especially his sonic pound.

Despite being "the fastest", his fastest attack is d.1, which is 7 frames. Meaning your frame-perfect F23 Breath ~ F2 loop can AT WORST trade with his D.1, which is way more damage / frames on your side. Flash should have a very hard time against Superman.
 

KDZ

It's amore, BABY.
Your D.2 is 12 frames... And you're taking this a little too personally.

Mathematically you're 5 frames in the red, with an awful hitbox. So unless there's some magic hurtbox dodging that's going on that I dont know about, ala GL, you're gonna get hit when done properly.
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
Favorite game in years. Maybe due to Superman being my favorite superhero, and not terrible. Maybe due to how decision-based the engine is.
I couldn't have said it better. I picked up this game cause I'm a big DC nerd and the game overall is not super hard, it's just fun. Glad you're doing well and wrecking shop
 

KDZ

It's amore, BABY.
Then allow me to ammend:

This becomes a GL issue. Where he can push his way through your superior frames with hurtbox movement. Lucky for us the range is nothing. The scariest part of Superman's pressure with his slight frame advantage and reach, he can dictate play after breath. Slight delay ~ F23 after breath will hurt Flash's D2 with little risk, other than letting him out if he "jumps back" or "backdashes".

In fights like this, it's more likely that they'll get out of your pressure. While this may seem bad, I'm ok with this, as they push themselves to the inevitable corner. But with intelligent control, you should never be in any danger during your own pressure.
 
Reactions: Dan
Do you guys feel that Superman has any clearly bad matchups? Not just 4.5-5.5 or "maybe 4-6," but matchups where he clearly, undeniably struggles?

Edit for a couple more questions:

How do you guys feel the Deathstroke matchup is? I hear some talk that Superman dominates, but I find that only true against bad 'Strokes that try to spam guns and panic when the fight gets close. DS's normals are really good, and I think a skilled 'Stroke (one who knows his up-close game and doesn't panic) makes it 5-5.

What is this GL hurtbox "magic" that I keep hearing about?
 

Solo

Shadow Priest
Do you guys feel that Superman has any clearly bad matchups? Not just 4.5-5.5 or "maybe 4-6," but matchups where he clearly, undeniably struggles?
Superman has bad MUs. Hawkgirl and Raven. Those two characters give Superman hell.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
Superman has bad MUs. Hawkgirl and Raven. Those two characters give Superman hell.
Been grinding this a bit with Espio. Once you start figuring some stuff out its not terribad. I need to lab a bit more on some character specific exploits and combo options before I have a solid opinion.
 

Solo

Shadow Priest
Been grinding this a bit with Espio. Once you start figuring some stuff out its not terribad. I need to lab a bit more on some character specific exploits and combo options before I have a solid opinion.
Hawkgirl, right? I don't think it's terrible either, but she does an advantage over him. It takes patience though. I can do better if try running down time rather than trying to keep her locked down with my offense.

I have matches posted vs Hawkgirl, and boy, it's not pretty.
 
raven is by no means a bad matchup, she just requires more patience than others, not scary at all. hawkgirl i would like to know myself, such a rare character. KDZ can you tell something about her?
 

KDZ

It's amore, BABY.
Raven has a difficult time if you're patient, yet forceful.
There are 2 ways in.

Way 1: Outplay
1.) Don't get impatient and dash on her at max range.
2.) Don't fire beams unless that's the match you want to play (this is a different match altogether)
3.) Always, ALWAYS be aware of her trait. It takes a moment to start up. You can dash 2-3x in that moment. Close the distance when this occurs. Dictate the play while her trait is up, to not let her start teleport harassing you.
4.) Once you get into about 3-5 character length, you can block-dash-block to start getting in.
5.) Has a few + strings, but one most prominent is her 3 hit string, where the 3rd hit frametraps when it looks like it shouldn't. It's +5 on block if you block that last one. Dont. Wait till you see the animation for the 3rd one start, and then backdash and punish with f23. If you just backdash every time on the first two, she will do the first two and the force-grab you.
6.) She has a fast enough jab to fight her way out. Be aware of it.

Way 2: Outsmart
1.) Start a beam war. Without her counter, you win the beam war very easily. We're trying to force out the counter here.
2.) If she uses her trait, hit her with your Zap then immediately dash and do MB superman punch. You're in.
3.) During these counters, she's going to start throwing unblockable beams back at you. This is what we're looking for. There are two beams, one from the sky, one from the ground. You can jump the ground one (its unblockable so dont block it), but you dont go in on it. You wait.
4.) Eventually she will perform the skydrop unblockable counter beam. This is what we're waiting for. 4 dashes or one dash and MB superman punch. You may even hit her.

When you're in, all of this is the same. Dont let her out, dont let her breath, and her best wakeup attack is punishable.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
Hawkgirl, right? I don't think it's terrible either, but she does an advantage over him. It takes patience though. I can do better if try running down time rather than trying to keep her locked down with my offense.

I have matches posted vs Hawkgirl, and boy, it's not pretty.
True the clock is a factor, but I think there's some merit to dashing under her as she recovers from throwing her air mace at you. I'm gonna hit the lab and see if I can come up with a decent air starting punish. Also they like to meter burn whatever move it is that ends up on an overhead. There's some push back but she's grounded, so you can start offense.

Re: raven, this takes patience. It's not dissimilar to fighting deathstroke. Dash block so you don't get nailed by soul crush. Don't air laser bc soul crush unless you're jumping over her projectile. I'm trying to see what I can do to punish her tele (3~MB breath maybe?) otherwise she traits and throws shit at you. Just block it
 
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