Superman General Discussion Thread

[Tweedy]

Atom is definitely a losing mu imo and both the Atom players at KIT agreed with me. Superman has tools vs his trait like mb b3 or random dash punches but the mind games are still pretty strong. D1 also works after f23 trait. Smart Atom play is gonna be pretty hard for Superman tho.

So losing mus I have right now for Superman are Catwoman, Wowo, Cyborg, Atom. Debatables are Black Adam, Sub Zero, Darkseid, Batman. I have those all as 5-5s atm tho.

Also I was wrong about Robin. It's probably 5-5. Hayatei thinks it could even be Robin's favor now. It's really just a matter of people being complete scrubs vs Superman tbh. Lacking basic ability vs lasers and f23 pressure, blaming it on a character match up, when the character has no issues vs either. Robin has half screen jump ins and a 6 frame d1. How the hell would that character struggle vs f23 or lasers?

Just my opinion as of now.

 

[ATP2014]

So losing mus I have right now for Superman are Catwoman, Wowo, Cyborg, Atom.

Mind explaining why Cyborg wins? I saw people claiming this even during the EVO version of the game when Superman was at his best. Is it really all about the IA fireballs?

 

[Tweedy]

Mind explaining why Cyborg wins? I saw people claiming this even during the EVO version of the game when Superman was at his best. Is it really all about the IA fireballs?

Yeah pretty much. He also can sweep f23 trait f23, can grapple out of post breath mind games. So he has decent tools vs Superman's pressure and can zone him better than even pre patch Deadshot, if the ia fireballs are perfected.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Atom is definitely a losing mu imo and both the Atom players at KIT agreed with me. Superman has tools vs his trait like mb b3 or random dash punches but the mind games are still pretty strong. D1 also works after f23 trait. Smart Atom play is gonna be pretty hard for Superman tho.

So losing mus I have right now for Superman are Catwoman, Wowo, Cyborg, Atom. Debatables are Black Adam, Sub Zero, Darkseid, Batman. I have those all as 5-5s atm tho.

Also I was wrong about Robin. It's probably 5-5. Hayatei thinks it could even be Robin's favor now. It's really just a matter of people being complete scrubs vs Superman tbh. Lacking basic ability vs lasers and f23 pressure, blaming it on a character match up, when the character has no issues vs either. Robin has half screen jump ins and a 6 frame d1. How the hell would that character struggle vs f23 or lasers?

Just my opinion as of now.

is there a backup char that can hard counter the above? or at least compete at an even advantage?

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

is there a backup char that can hard counter the above? or at least compete at an even advantage?

Black Manta is a good cover for some of Supes harder MUs imo

 

[Cursa]

I might be a lil different but I feel Batman is 5-5

 

[legion666]

Some time ago I posted a 2 bar corner combo off non cross up j3 which did like 65%. I tried to set it up as a mix up in the corner but had trouble finding a cross up j3 option. I have been playing some Bizzarro lately and maybe it is the fact that his ex breath has different stun animation, but it seems easier to set up an ambiguous j3 combo off his ex breath. So if you have 3 bars you can do this:

Cross up j3

321.19 + 626.23 = 947.42 damage

Non-cross up j3

321.19 + 653.42 = 974.61 damage

Non-cross up j3 into a combo that leaves them in the corner

321.19 + 643.24 = 964.43 damage

 

[Cursa]

Shit that's a lot of damage.

Is there a way to know which side you will hit on? I'm assuming it's based on how far you fall before you J3 or how far back you jump before the air dash.

 

[legion666]

Shit that's a lot of damage.

Is there a way to know which side you will hit on? I'm assuming it's based on how far you fall before you J3 or how far back you jump before the air dash.

There is certainly a way) but from my testing it is based on the part of the opponent's burning animation. There is a very short point in it right when it no longer combos into the next hit, where if you dash over them towards the corner the J3 crosses up, at any other point of the animation it won't. From what I can tell it is impossible for opponent to see, so it is a true 50/50 and it is plus on block)

 

[legion666]

Ok! I am not a Supes main so I didn't know l wasn't optimal, so you can squeeze a little more damage into this corner mix)

J3 doesn't cross up:
Initially I thought that making the first combo that ends in a standing reset longer will take up some time from Supe's trait and therefore will make the total damage of the reset less. So I tried to do the trait activation as late into the combo as possible:

Here the first combo does 335.99 and the combo after the reset does the same 653.42 as before which gives us a total of 989.41. It is more than 974.61 but that still isn't maximum

So I then tried to do max damage into ex breath first:

355.37 + 641.45 = 996.82 damage, the second combo does 11.97 damage points less but the first one does 34.18 more so this is more than previous 974.61, and more than 989.41

But with the cross up version of the reset there it is different. I have recorded the same sequence as with the max damage non cross up reset.

355.37 + 606.73 = 962.1 so it is more than 947.42. I didn't record the version with the late trait activation but it does ( just like I the video with the non cross up version) 335.99 + 626.23 = 962.22 which is more but only by 0.12 damage point, and in general I think the recorded version here is more practical since you do more damage before the actual guessing game.

 

[Cursa]

There is certainly a way) but from my testing it is based on the part of the opponent's burning animation. There is a very short point in it right when it no longer combos into the next hit, where if you dash over them towards the corner the J3 crosses up, at any other point of the animation it won't. From what I can tell it is impossible for opponent to see, so it is a true 50/50 and it is plus on block)

I was only wondering since you change the combo depending on what side you land on, yeah?

Also I literally can't get over how much damage this does, this is like that Bane 100% cross up material except delayed wakeup and regular wakeups aren't a thing, as well as the meter usage being much less.

 

[The_Tile]

Ok! I am not a Supes main so I didn't know l wasn't optimal, so you can squeeze a little more damage into this corner mix)

J3 doesn't cross up:
Initially I thought that making the first combo that ends in a standing reset longer will take up some time from Supe's trait and therefore will make the total damage of the reset less. So I tried to do the trait activation as late into the combo as possible:

Here the first combo does 335.99 and the combo after the reset does the same 653.42 as before which gives us a total of 989.41. It is more than 974.61 but that still isn't maximum

So I then tried to do max damage into ex breath first:

355.37 + 641.45 = 996.82 damage, the second combo does 11.97 damage points less but the first one does 34.18 more so this is more than previous 974.61, and more than 989.41

But with the cross up version of the reset there it is different. I have recorded the same sequence as with the max damage non cross up reset.

355.37 + 606.73 = 962.1 so it is more than 947.42. I didn't record the version with the late trait activation but it does ( just like I the video with the non cross up version) 335.99 + 626.23 = 962.22 which is more but only by 0.12 damage point, and in general I think the recorded version here is more practical since you do more damage before the actual guessing game.

Is't F23xxTrait, 3, 3, D2, 3xxMbBreath the most damaging combo pre reset? Not at xbox right now so I'm not sure and I don't remember exactly how much it does. This is really good stuff though man, forgot how much of a lab monster you were since MKX Quan Chi.

 

[legion666]

I was only wondering since you change the combo depending on what side you land on, yeah?

Also I literally can't get over how much damage this does, this is like that Bane 100% cross up material except delayed wakeup and regular wakeups aren't a thing, as well as the meter usage being much less.

Yeah, you do change the combo, but if you mistime the set up a bit always expect to do the non cross up version, since the most part of the burning animation doesn't make j3 cross up, and if you unexpectedly do, you can react with late b23 since it is fast and will still connect.
Also there is an option select to press f23 right after j3 connects and input mb breath at the end of the string, and if you cross up it turns into b23.
But really, you can train yourself to know when you do cross up)

 

[legion666]

Is't F23xxTrait, 3, 3, D2, 3xxMbBreath the most damaging combo pre reset? Not at xbox right now so I'm not sure and I don't remember exactly how much it does. This is really good stuff though man, forgot how much of a lab monster you were since MKX Quan Chi.

Is it? I will try that when I have time)

 

[Cursa]

Yeah, you do change the combo, but if you mistime the set up a bit always expect to do the non cross up version, since the most part of the burning animation doesn't make j3 cross up, and if you unexpectedly do, you can react with late b23 since it is fast and will still connect.
Also there is an option select to press f23 right after j3 connects and input mb breath at the end of the string, and if you cross up it turns into b23.
But really, you can train yourself to know when you do cross up)

Yea knowing when it crosses up is important. We aren't pre-patch Batman who can just J2 and do a string into +19

 

[The_Tile]

Is it? I will try that when I have time)

It might be F23, 3xxTrait, 3, D2 instead of what I said earlier. I'm not sure I don't remember atm.

 

[legion666]

It might be F23, 3xxTrait, 3, D2 instead of what I said earlier. I'm not sure I don't remember atm.

Ok the f23, 3xxtrait, 3, d2, 3xxEx Breath seems to be the maximum, it does 377,22 on maximum defense characters, I recorded it for the j3 hitting in front. It is 377.22 before the reset and 641.45 after = 1018.67 damage, yooooo

 

[Cursa]

Ok the f23, 3xxtrait, 3, d2, 3xxEx Breath seems to be the maximum, it does 377,22 on maximum defense characters, I recorded it for the j3 hitting in front. It is 377.22 before the reset and 641.45 after = 1018.67 damage, yooooo

With 2 bars of meter left over... shit

I bet you could just do DF1 loops until they die if you have the meter for it.

 

[legion666]

With 2 bars of meter left over... shit

I bet you could just do DF1 loops until they die if you have the meter for it.

You actually only left with like 1 and 1/3 of a bar after this, my meter in training mode is just set on refill in the video, so Biizzarro regains a bar when the reset happens)

 

[Cursa]

You actually only left with like 1 and 1/3 of a bar after this, my meter in training mode is just set on refill in the video, so Biizzarro regains a bar when the reset happens)

Aye that is true. 1 bar could probably finish it I think

 

[legion666]

Aye that is true. 1 bar could probably finish it I think

Oh, with 4 bars it kills for sure

 

[Cursa]

Welp I tried testing the combo (I literally just attempted to do it for like 10 minutes) and yeah I am 99% sure it would kill if you replace the ender with DF1MB 3 DF2 DB1

 

[legion666]

Here is the cross up version

377.22 + 606.73 = 983.95 damage for guessing right once

 

[legion666]

Welp I tried testing the combo (I literally just attempted to do it for like 10 minutes) and yeah I am 99% sure it would kill if you replace the ender with DF1MB 3 DF2 DB1

You better of doing j3, 3xxbounce cancel, j3, 3xxEx breath, deep j3, 3xxscoop if you want to kill for extra bar, it is way easier. I will test later if the 4 bar version kills someone like bane who can take the most damage in the game.

 

[legion666]

Here is the cross up version

377.22 + 606.73 = 983.95 damage for guessing right once

Just managed to stick 3xxrising grab, air lasers instead of b21 into the second combo after the cross up j3. Now it does over 630 damage. So the whole mix up is somewhere around 1010 damage)