General/Other Sub Zero: No crying, Just Placement

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Shang is 12 and CSZ is 29? Sniffle My only good match up is so much higher up then CSZ

Actually for the most part, I agree with the list. (Exept for that blastphamy ) If this is based on MU 's then I agree with CSZ placement. But if its based on how good the fighter actually is, then I think he should be a little higher. Im not asking to change your list, I like your list. Just throwing in my 2 cents.

I kinda feel like saying any fighter in the game is the worst fighter in the game is incorrect. Every fighter has its own potential. But lists have to have a start and end I guess .

I agree... everyone suck.

 

[Dark_Rob]

For the record guys I was never talking about ice beam. My post was about how to use the ice blast. Ice blast can trade with just about anything, as long as your not trying to trade. It seems counter intuitive but again that's not why your throwing an ice blast. Trading is a fringe benefit of what your really doing, which is occupying space. Everytime you put an ice blast on the screen your saying to your opponent "Here you go, deal with this"
Ice beam I really only use in two matchups, Subzero mirrors and against Reptile. Ice beam is more about making a right read on when to throw it. If your not getting a full combo or if you get knocked out of it, you read wrong.

 

[salvificblood]

I don't get why people have so much trouble getting the hang of the ice blast. You just put it on the screen. The spacing for when you can throw an iceball becomes second nature after a while so just put the thing on the screen every now and then to check your opponent and let them know you are chucking ice. It means they have to be more careful with their own projectile useage, unless they're Kitana, Kabal, etc. Well, it stops kabal using buzzsaws so much, so... *hand balancing gesture*.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

This is the classic wrong reason to throw an ice blast. You should never be throwing ice blasts with the intention of trying to trade with your opponents projectiles. The purpose of iceblast is to occupy and control space. You ALWAYS want to get off first with ice blast. Instead of trying to trade with your opponent your putting a moving combo on the screen and daring them to try and trade with you. By checking your opponent this way you force them to hesitate and fore go they're own zoning. Your absolutely right in saying you have to go first, hell yes, get that ice blast on the screen first. But not to look for a trade. Do it and dare THEM to try and trade. By not caring about trading, youll find yourself trading with projectiles that seemed untradable. Put that ice blast out there, let your opponent worry about trading.

I guess I use the term "trading" wrong...

I throw out Ice Blast first when I think they are going to be throwing a projectile in hopes of me getting the freeze right after they release their projectile. That way, they are frozen and I can block their projectile and punish.

What moron tries to throw ice ball after the opponent throws a projectile? That will never work.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I guess I use the term "trading" wrong...

I throw out Ice Blast first when I think they are going to be throwing a projectile in hopes of me getting the freeze right after they release their projectile. That way, they are frozen and I can block their projectile and punish.

What moron tries to throw ice ball after the opponent throws a projectile? That will never work.

You should of stayed in our KOH longer today. We finally dethroned Dink!!! LOL.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

You should of stayed in our KOH longer today. We finally dethroned Dink!!! LOL.

I had to go to work. =/

Plus, I wasn't putting up much of a fight against anyone anyway. lol

 

[Enenra]

BodamEscapePlan
As far as internet love goes, you got it from me. Your list is... Questionable though.
Respect your opinion, but it is very radical indeed.

 

[salvificblood]

I guess I use the term "trading" wrong...

I throw out Ice Blast first when I think they are going to be throwing a projectile in hopes of me getting the freeze right after they release their projectile. That way, they are frozen and I can block their projectile and punish.

What moron tries to throw ice ball after the opponent throws a projectile? That will never work.

What Rob's saying to you is that the use of the ice blast is not centred around making trades, or it is but in a more inadvertant way if that makes sense. Making trades sort of just comes when you start using it correctly. The ice blast allows you to close space and play a footsies game against your opponent instead them just throwing projectile after projectile at you because you haven't made them respect the ice blast. If you show your opponent you know how to use the ice blast, most characters will have to adapt to it by being more careful in their zoning. That's the mentality you adopt when you're using Sub-Zero and trying to get a concrete grasp on what the ice blast is "for". You're not really fishing for trades with it, you're just repeatedly saying to your opponent I.will.not.let.you.go.unchecked and so the problem of trades becomes THEIR problem and not yours as you never have to think about it because you're not the one with a strategy that revolves around indefinite keepaway, they are.

The ice beam is useful against Kenshi, as well. You have to mix it in with regular ice blasts so it's disguised as a regular ice blast. When you throw it from midscreen, you're using your opponent's good reactions against them, because they'll reflec thinking it's a regular ice blast, and get frozen by the beam, and then you're in. It's risky because you waste a bar if he is going for an overhead slash thingmajig because it'll usually bust you in the face and stop the ex ice from travelling across the screen, but this is actually where slides and regular ice have a role that you can utilise to hamstring his zoning should you make a good read and, you can reserve the use of ex ice until you are close to having 3 bars.

 

[charlieonline]

Care to explain how you are able to advance after throwing out an ice blast while you are in recovery frames and by the time the ball hits their block, they are able to move at roughly the same time as you

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Care to explain how you are able to advance after throwing out an ice blast while you are in recovery frames and by the time the ball hits their block, they are able to move at roughly the same time as you

they can't move backward.

 

[Theme]

You should of stayed in our KOH longer today. We finally dethroned Dink!!! LOL.

You guys play often with each other and others from TYM? Im getting tired of online scrubs being BM and the online bullshit. I need to find some sparring partners from TYM

 

[charlieonline]

they can't move backward.

what does that do? you can't move forward either..

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

they are in block stun while you are out of recovery... It also puts you at an advantageous reading area. If they jump... slide... if not.. advance.

 

[charlieonline]

I see. I'll have to give that a go

 

[Dark_Rob]

What Rob's saying to you is that the use of the ice blast is not centred around making trades, or it is but in a more inadvertant way if that makes sense. Making trades sort of just comes when you start using it correctly. The ice blast allows you to close space and play a footsies game against your opponent instead them just throwing projectile after projectile at you because you haven't made them respect the ice blast. If you show your opponent you know how to use the ice blast, most characters will have to adapt to it by being more careful in their zoning. That's the mentality you adopt when you're using Sub-Zero and trying to get a concrete grasp on what the ice blast is "for". You're not really fishing for trades with it, you're just repeatedly saying to your opponent I.will.not.let.you.go.unchecked and so the problem of trades becomes THEIR problem and not yours as you never have to think about it because you're not the one with a strategy that revolves around indefinite keepaway, they are.

The ice beam is useful against Kenshi, as well. You have to mix it in with regular ice blasts so it's disguised as a regular ice blast. When you throw it from midscreen, you're using your opponent's good reactions against them, because they'll reflec thinking it's a regular ice blast, and get frozen by the beam, and then you're in. It's risky because you waste a bar if he is going for an overhead slash thingmajig because it'll usually bust you in the face and stop the ex ice from travelling across the screen, but this is actually where slides and regular ice have a role that you can utilise to hamstring his zoning should you make a good read and, you can reserve the use of ex ice until you are close to having 3 bars.

You definitely get it. Thats exactly what I was trying to say. Its an abstract concept that may seem backwards to people but its just the way ice blast works. The idea that you get more trades by not looking for trades seems like a riddle in a fortune cookie lol. But its true. When you put it all together with solid footsies,fundamentals, and making good reads, Subzero actually has some solid zoning power.

 

[Via_Negativa]

Definitely. For me the IB is to control space. If you are looking for trade's you miss the point entirely. You will get the trade's simply by using it for the control and augmenting him to get in. In some match up's it's near a death sentence to use at all though outside of combo's.

The game is well balanced apart from some terrible shit, but I would say he is a solid mid tier character. No way in hell is he bottom 5.