General/Other Sub Zero: No crying, Just Placement

[Enenra]

My beloved TYM Kommunity, where do YOU put one of the most popular video game characters of all time, and one with the most turbulent of rides through the tier system, in this current patch of MK9? Leave a number and an explanation and we'll settle this.

I put him at 15. I see him at the 14-16 range.
His corner pressure is phenomenal, His D4 is in the top 3, his corner pressure is in the top 3, and there is no substitute for ice clone.

However, he suffers against zoners who can shut him down, and his damge is very eh. 2 whiffs on low hitbox characters, but that isn't a killer.

That seems to be A tier, around the 16 and up placement. (The game is pretty well balanced to the point characters don't go past C tier-worth.)

 

[miloPKL]

another day, another sub zero tier thread- featuring opinions.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Well......time to get the pitchforks and torches ready, guys.

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Just above Kitana.

 

[Killphil]

There's only 3 low hitbox characters in the whole game. As for placement..I'm not at liberty to say. One because I don't know, and two because every time I give my opinion on something like this I get shot down by someone with a "highest possible level, not your friend bob" argument. I don't give a shit either way. Tom Brady shot me down when I wrote up why subzero loses to Ermac and finally months later on his own tier list it said 6-4 Ermac. My friend and I played the shit out of that match, and still my word meant jack in the grand scheme of things. I don't blame Tom for saying what he did(after all he wanted to believe subzero was top 5 material).

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I have him at #22.

He's still legit as MC Hammer. All day.

Except against Kenshi. I really can't stop hating that matchup.

 

[Espio]

He's not bottom five, I will just say that much, it seems like the character is majorly downplayed.

 

[RampaginDragon]

Not to be underestamated, and he has more potential than I think a lot of people are giving him.

 

[Seapeople]

There's only 3 low hitbox characters in the whole game.

There are actually 7 low hitbox characters who affect Sub Zero's pressure. But he still has ways to deal with these characters, no doubt about it.
I have no opinion on the tier list. I use Sub because I like the way he works, and that's good enough for me.

 

[Killphil]

There are actually 7 low hitbox characters who affect Sub Zero's pressure. But he still has ways to deal with these characters, no doubt about it.
I have no opinion on the tier list. I use Sub because I like the way he works, and that's good enough for me.

Does 2 whiff against medium hitbox characters? Could you list the 7 for me? (I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to know)

 

[Seapeople]

Does 2 whiff against medium hitbox characters? Could you list the 7 for me? (I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to know)

No problem man. I've got them all listed on the last page of this thread:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/version-1-05-subzero-matchup-discussion.9704/page-21

 

[Dark_Rob]

Hes middle of the road. Im sure lots of people have heard Tom and I call him a fish. We're half trolling. Weve been playing Sub for a long time so to us, hes lost alot over the course of the patches. He used to be a really good and dirty character. Hes not so dirty anymore, he lost alot of what made him dirty, but hes still a solid character. He can hang with most of the cast with a couple of really tough matchups like Kabal,Kung Lao and Kenshi.
Yes zoners suck, yes low hitbox characters suck, but they suck for lots of characters, not just Subzero.
Id say hes mid to high mid tier, somewhere between 12 and 16.

 

[salvificblood]

Well, I will list the characters I do not believe he can be above (in no particular order):

Kabal
Raiden
Sonya
Jax
Smoke
Kung Lao
Kitana
Cyrax
Kenshi
Freddy
Mileena

It then becomes opinion because I could say Reptile, Johnny Cage, Sektor, Liu Kang, Sub-Zero are all the upper midtier characters and someone could put Sub behind those or in front . I prefer to just throw them all together because if you think Cage, Sektor, Reptile, Sub and Kang can't win, you're crazy.

All that without mentioning Shang Tsung, Scorpion, etc. There's a large blockof characters all very close to each other in this game, in my opinion.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

All that without mentioning Shang Tsung, Scorpion, etc. There's a large blockof characters all very close to each other in this game, in my opinion.

Precisely this. The lines between some characters in this game as far as viability are paper-thin to transparent.

Sub gives me what I need...a way to shut Johnny Cage & Sonya the hell up. And that makes me happy.

 

[Wildabeast]

Solid mid tier character, his only real problem is that he has some really one sided matchups against a few of the most popular tournament characters. Still a solid utility character or main (as long as you have another character to cover said matchups).

 

[WayoftheFist]

Hes middle of the road. Im sure lots of people have heard Tom and I call him a fish. We're half trolling. Weve been playing Sub for a long time so to us, hes lost alot over the course of the patches. He used to be a really good and dirty character. Hes not so dirty anymore, he lost alot of what made him dirty, but hes still a solid character. He can hang with most of the cast with a couple of really tough matchups like Kabal,Kung Lao and Kenshi.
Yes zoners suck, yes low hitbox characters suck, but they suck for lots of characters, not just Subzero.
Id say hes mid to high mid tier, somewhere between 12 and 16.

I can't say it any better.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Solid mid tier character, his only real problem is that he has some really one sided matchups against a few of the most popular tournament characters. Still a solid utility character or main (as long as you have another character to cover said matchups).

only two characters are "severely" one sided.

 

[deathgun]

Solid mid tier character, his only real problem is that he has some really one sided matchups against a few of the most popular tournament characters. Still a solid utility character or main (as long as you have another character to cover said matchups).

I agree with what you have said here, the thing is: why to keep playing subzero if you are going to be playing with your other main 99% of your matchs in the tournaments? Almost all the matchs are going to be bad matchups for sz, so why to bother playing with sz instead to drop him for once and keep playing with your other char, or keep your other char and replace sz with someone with a real utility in a tournament.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I agree with what you have said here, the thing is: why to keep playing subzero if you are going to be playing with your other main 99% of your matchs in the tournaments? Almost all the matchs are going to be bad matchups for sz, so why to bother playing with sz instead to drop him for once and keep playing with your other char, or keep your other char and replace sz with someone with a real utility in a tournament.

this is wrong. So wrong.
Learn match ups.... don't rely on the forums to tell you who you can beat and can't beat.
again... he only has two one sided matches... at the highest level he really can't beat them at all. 2. not 14... 2.

 

[Dark_Rob]

he only has two one sided matches... at the highest level he really can't beat them at all. 2. not 14... 2.

Green Lantern and Flash? Oh wait......errrr...wrong game.

 

[Theme]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, I dont think Sub is anywhere near bottom tier, if anything, hes around top 12 IMHO. My friend plays a really mean Sub Zero. Zoners are killer for Subby, but thats why you now have armor on the EXSlide. Besides, the iceball and icebeam arent bad trades.... trade right, and youll net 30%+ over their 9% projectile. Id say thats a hella of a fair trade....

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Green Lantern and Flash? Oh wait......errrr...wrong game.

LOL. damn... 4 bad matches!!!!

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, I dont think Sub is anywhere near bottom tier, if anything, hes around top 12 IMHO. My friend plays a really mean Sub Zero. Zoners are killer for Subby, but thats why you now have armor on the EXSlide. Besides, the iceball and icebeam arent bad trades.... trade right, and youll net 30%+ over their 9% projectile. Id say thats a hella of a fair trade....

Kung Lao isn't a zoner.

 

[WayoftheFist]

this is wrong. So wrong.
Learn match ups.... don't rely on the forums to tell you who you can beat and can't beat.
again... he only has two one sided matches... at the highest level he really can't beat them at all. 2. not 14... 2.

If you're talking about Kung Lao and Kenshi then I agree with you. There are still some others I would prefer not to fight as far uphill as I have to but I would still say I have a chance.

 

[SunnyD]

I think heavy rushers kill Sub Zero if they can stay up close. Not being able to clone is a huge disadvantage imo. The problem is that Sub has an excellent keep-away game once he gets that clone out. But tele's can circumvent that. Thats why Kung Lao is such a bad matchup, he's both a heavy rusher and he's got a safe tele into combo.