General/Other Sub Zero: No crying, Just Placement

[WayoftheFist]

I think heavy rushers kill Sub Zero if they can stay up close. Not being able to clone is a huge disadvantage imo. The problem is that Sub has an excellent keep-away game once he gets that clone out. But tele's can circumvent that. Thats why Kung Lao is such a bad matchup, he's both a heavy rusher and he's got a safe tele into combo.

The reason KL is so bad is because you can EX slide out of most other pressure characters stuff and then make it hard for them to get back in. With KL he is just one decent teleport read away from being right back in with you down a bar.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I think heavy rushers kill Sub Zero if they can stay up close. Not being able to clone is a huge disadvantage imo. The problem is that Sub has an excellent keep-away game once he gets that clone out. But tele's can circumvent that. Thats why Kung Lao is such a bad matchup, he's both a heavy rusher and he's got a safe tele into combo.

Mobility kills Sub. Kung Lao can play the match as if the clone doesn't exist... whether it is out there or not. How many characters can full combo punish a clone? Just him.
His 6-4 matches are against mobile characters that can jump around and throw shit.
Zoning is actually not a problem... because I can trade for a combo while you hit me for less than double digit damage.

The problem is that, most everyone doesn't want to deal with being patient and learning a Kitana matchup or a Mileena matchup. Those two are VERY winnable, but they require a level of patients and a good game plan. Instead, lets just go pick up Kenshi.... thats the common theme these days.

 

[STB Bodam]

Well,
This is the way I see it. I'm sure plenty will disagree with me; I can totally understand. I have about three or four characters I play (for the most part) so maybe I'm a little biased in some areas.

Regardless, here's what I think:

[-1-] KABAL​

​

- Pretty easy to see he's in a league of his own. Yeah, Jax and Kung Lao (particularly) certainly can give him a hard time but he has every tool in the world assuming you can play him at a high level. He has the safest "pseudo teleport" in the game with the NMD/cancels, a pretty simple F+4 to end your combos with standing resets to start pressuring all over again, a pretty great projectile game (iaGBs) and one of the best moves in the game in eX Nomad Dash (for it's armor). -​

​

[-2-] SONYA​

​

- Sure she's got a few bad matchups but they're completely within reason to deal with. -​

​

[-3-] KUNG LAO​

​

- Between Kung Lao and Sonya; it's sort of a 2a/2b situation but there should be no argument here. Through all the patches and hot-fixes, Kung Lao has retained his game-changing ability.​

​

[-4-] KITANA​

​

- Really solid zoning tools (40%+ off one iaFT) and some great rush-down tools. She does lack some good wake-up options but they're not even close to the worst. -​

​

[-5-] KENSHI​

​

- An armored zoning tank of a character. Just dirty from every aspect that you could possibly look at him from. Underrated rush-down and so many solid tools. -​

​

[-6-] JOHNNY CAGE​

- You can laugh all you want and say "well he's got soo many bad MUs;" that's fine. He still has top-three comeback potential and some of the best rush-down in the game. -​

​

[-7-] SMOKE​

​

- Somewhat deserving to be a little higher but I can't justify it other than the fact that he has a high damage reset (80%+) yet has every tool in the world to play keep away and frustrate you into making stupid mistakes. His lack of low options will get him destroyed and he isn't much for mixing it up but he -- like Cage -- has some of the best comeback potential in the game in any match. -​

​

[-8-] JAX​

​

- Great armor, decent pressure/mix-up game and one of the dirtiest corner resets in the game. Simply put Jax is the definition of "tank" in the right hands. Did I mention his low hit-box, as well? -​

​

[-9-] SINDEL​

​

- Honestly, I would never put Sindel this high had it not be for her Levitate cancels which can be used as a pressuring tool to not only compliment her already great zoning but to completely mind-f-ck your opponent into guessing games/situations. Laugh all you want -- I'm telling you she belongs. -​

​

[-10-] MILEENA​

​

- This is when the list sort of levels off and becomes a little more blurry. Yeah, Mileena has some very unsafe specials but if used correctly can be a severe problem for pretty much the whole case. Her 50/50 game is pretty solid and the simple fact you can't jump against her (at all) sets her apart from those below her on this list. -​

​

[-11-] FREDDY KRUEGER​

​

- I wanted to put him a little higher but I've yet to see someone who uses him to his absolute fullest aside from M2Dave; so maybe that's not really fair but I'm not huge on his rush-down despite his extremely powerful 50/50 game. In my opinion, his zoning and ability to trap you and keep you away puts him nearly on Smoke's level -- the only difference I could see is that Smoke has better rush-down but it's a lot closer than this list leads you to believe. -​

​

[-12-] SHANG TSUNG​

​

- One of the most underrated characters in the game. Make no mistake, his wake-up game flat out sucks but that's rubbish when you consider the fact he has unbreakable combos, great footsies and scary comeback potential because of one of the most deadly (and cool) specials in the game in Soul Steal which is +1 on block. If you can't justify Shang this high then I don't think you know the true potential of this character. -​

​

[-13-] SKARLET​

​

- I wanted to put Skarlet a little higher but I just don't think she's as good as some would stake the claim for her to be. Incredible rush-down, mix-ups and 50/50s -- all that without even mentioning some of the best chip damage combos, meter building potential, ways to get in, crazy super armor on Red Dash, cancels and her standing reset might be one of the scariest in the game. As I write this I'm sort of half-way thinking that I highly underrate this character. Shoutouts to aNinj and TureDimsky, they use this character in scary ways. -​

[-14-] LIU KANG​

​

- His rush-down has been up there from the very get-go however his lack of solid wake-up options really dictate his placement more than anything I can really make a solid argument for. Kang doesn't need meter, all he needs is you to let him get in on you and he'll take it from there with an absolute scary corner game and some of the best 50/50s and mix-ups on the entire roster. Nothing about him is flashy and (shout-out to Zyns for bringing this to my attention) the fact he can't combo-cancel into Dragon Stance puts a damper on some of what he can do but Liu Kang can dictate a match a lot better than the majority of the cast can. -​

​

[-15-] CYRAX​

​

- I just don't buy into Cyrax as much as everyone else does. Yeah, I struggle with him myself but nothing about the character really scares me if you know what you're getting into. Like any character there are those that can prove to you he should be a lot higher not because of his ridiculous resets but because he has so many options and unblockables that make you not touch your meter until you see that chest opening and a Sticky Bomb coming your way. Oh, and he's got a stupid Command Grab that can pressure you into making mistakes at the most crucial times. -​

​

[-16-] RAIN​

​

- All you need to know is his eX Roundhouse Kick is an absolute force. If there's any non-reset orientated character out there that should scare you with a full bar of meter -- it's Rain. His lack of great footsies holds him back significantly as does the fact that his only (pseudo) projectile does barely any chip damage (Lightning). His lack of low options can be crippling, especially online but Rain has so much going for him with his armor, RH cancel mindgames and Bubble reset that it's tough to ignore him. Oh, and you can do 42% without meter and close to 50% in the corner pretty easily. I think some will say this is too high but I really don't think so and I've mained him since his release. -​

​

[-17-] SEKTOR​

​

- The only reason why Sektor isn't higher on my list is because everything he has seems so risky. Sure, he's got some of the best anti-air options in the game but there's no real fear to this character because of his lack of a great overhead option. Don't get me wrong though, his rush-down is really underrated and his damage output can be flat out ridiculous but like Kabal he requires a ton of proper execution and experience to use at the highest level. -​

​

[-18-] RAIDEN​

​

- For so long I've hated this character for the simple fact that his Teleport rubbed me the wrong way but I just didn't know how to play him. As a Rain player it felt unfair to take away my best tools in this fight in the RH cancels and the armored Roundhouse Kick but nothing Raiden can do should really scare you -- in fact, I'd tell you he's all smoke and mirrors at all but except the highest levels of play (which would require a ton of experience believe it or not). You can make the argument he should be a little higher but I don't think by much. Obviously he's dangerous and changes the way you come at him but he's not nearly as scary as I and many others have led you to believe. -​

​

[-19-] SCORPION​

​

- Here's a character I really wanted to put higher but I just can't. Everything he has is relatively unsafe and can be punished but I guess that's the way it was meant to be with Scorpion. I don't want to under-estimate the "Vortex" because that alone makes him one of the most deadliest characters on the entire roster but if you approach this match-up how you would against a little lesser Johnny Cage or Cyrax then you should be fine. -​

​

[-20-] SHEEVA​

​

- So, so garbage! No, but seriously Sheeva gets a bad rep for some pretty simple reasons but I don't think most realize just how deadly this character can be. If GGA Jeremiah didn't give you a little taste of that at Final Round then I don't think you understand how tough she can be. Yeah, her normals are slow as are her combo start-ups but she has so much armor and can do so much damage that it's tough to ignore how good she can. I hope NRS realizes what they did to this character though by giving her armor on almost everything. -​

​

[-21-] STRYKER​

​

- Don't underestimate this guy. Yeah, he's kinda slow but his mix-ups and 50/50s can be lethal -- not to mention how solid his footsies are. At the highest level, Stryker can be a force but if you know how to play the match-up; you'll be able to see that nothing he can do is truly overwhelming. -​

​

[-22-] QUAN CHI​

​

- Essentially he has the Rune Trap and a bunch of other really punishable stuff. Some say he's cheesy, I think he's well designed just needed a little more love from the developers. He lacks a lot but can be scary in the right hands. He's one of those character that dictate your meter-usage but by no means should be viewed as any higher than this. -​

​

[-23-] BARAKA​

- Nothing about Baraka should scare you but you can't underestimate him either. His eX Blade Charge is solid and he's got the closest move to Kung Lao's Spin in the game that will deny jump-ins and crossovers but other than his corner game; nothing about this character really worries me too much. -​

​

[-24-] REPTILE​

​

- I don't expect anyone to agree with me here but that's fine, I just don't think he's all that great. The six-frame Elbow Dash is his best tool and his pressure game can force you to make some bad decisions but this is a character you know what's coming at you and if you know how to fight him; you should be okay. -​

​

[-25-] ERMAC​

​

- I love Ermac so much but he's not as great of a character as most of us had once believed. Ever since NRS handed out armor like candy, it has been tougher and tougher for Ermac to compete. Yeah, he's got some of the highest damage outputs in the game and some really solid anti-airs but there isn't a single thing he can do that should really scare you -- it's just about playing against him the right way. -​

​

[-26-] KANO​

​

- Another sad story of nerfs that somewhat destroyed the character. He's got good zoning and good anti-airs but not much else. Nothing about Kano is too much to handle. -​

​

[-27-] SUB-ZERO​

​

- The same that went for Kano goes for Subby and it's also a product of everyone learning what they can and cannot do against him. If you don't jump and play extremely cautiously trying to bait Sub's mistakes -- nothing about Sub can be scary unless you get in the corner. His corner game is his biggest plus, in my opinion and his eight-frame down+4 can be a burden but lets not try to oversell Subby -- he's nowhere near where he once was. He needed the armor and he needed the reset if you ask me. -​

​

[-28-] NOOB SAIBOT​

​

- Watching my brother main this character since MK9's release has helped me discover just how many flaws this character has. Yeah, he's got some nice tools but his eX moves are completely whack and are almost pointless. You make one mistake with Noob and it could be over. He doesn't have a ton of bad match-ups (not even Raiden, in my opinion only Reptile and Mileena) but he doesn't have any really favorable ones either. I don't hate Noob Saibot but I think he didn't get the proper attention he deserved. His zoning is a joke for the simple fact that if you can get around Shadow Tackles/Slides it's smooth sailing on-route to an easy win. He's a counter character and nothing more. -​

​

[-29-] CYBER SUB ZERO​

​

- Maybe I just haven't seen enough of CSZ but I just don't think he's very viable. His Ice Parry is great but you can just poke him out of it every time. I just don't see what he has that others don't. -​

​

[-30-] NIGHTWOLF​

​

- He's got a lot of good things but his downsides are pretty crippling if you ask me. Recently, I've seen some players do well with him but I just don't think people know the match-up. Nightwolf is not scary in any way shape or form and in my opinion is one of the most limited characters on the entire roster. -​

​

[-31-] JADE​

​

- Everything about Jade is unfortunate. Why does she need meter to link the Overhead Staff from B+2? Come to think of it; what the hell can she do without meter? I really wish I could say she was higher up for me but she's not. I will tell you I have an enormous amount of respect for those Jade-mainers out there -- mad love to you guys! -​

​

​

 

[Wildabeast]

this is wrong. So wrong.
Learn match ups.... don't rely on the forums to tell you who you can beat and can't beat.
again... he only has two one sided matches... at the highest level he really can't beat them at all. 2. not 14... 2.

Id say more like three; Kabal, Kitana, and Kung Lao. But yeah to say almost every matchup is a bad one for Sub is a hell of an exaggeration. A good Sub Zero can beat any character that is not those three I just mentioned. Everyone else is doable, not necessarily easy but doable.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I told Enenra that Sub was about #15. Or at least... around that number.

And @Bodam: Noob is #28?

Your list is thoroughly entertaining.
Keep in mind everyone, this thread is for discussing Subs tier placement.

That said, i dont expect a million replies to how you agree/disagree with Bodam's list.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, I dont think Sub is anywhere near bottom tier, if anything, hes around top 12 IMHO. My friend plays a really mean Sub Zero. Zoners are killer for Subby, but thats why you now have armor on the EXSlide. Besides, the iceball and icebeam arent bad trades.... trade right, and youll net 30%+ over their 9% projectile. Id say thats a hella of a fair trade....

Two problems with this:

1. The armor on enhanced slide doesn't work if you're being zoned out full screen by Noob, Freddy, Kenshi, etc .... they will have plenty of time to recover and react to block low and punish.

2. enhanced Ice ball doesn't always trade b/c the beam stops if you get hit, which is BS.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Mobility kills Sub. Kung Lao can play the match as if the clone doesn't exist... whether it is out there or not. How many characters can full combo punish a clone?

Kung Lao
Smoke (smoke bomb)
Ermac (something like 224 clone... and he can get you with lift)

The problem is that, most everyone doesn't want to deal with being patient and learning a Kitana matchup or a Mileena matchup. Those two are VERY winnable, but they require a level of patients and a good game plan. Instead, lets just go pick up Kenshi.... thats the common theme these days.

ahaha! sounds like you're talking about me!

The funny part is, I play Sub vs Kitana lol

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

BodamEscapePlan

I don't think you can put Sub after Ermac, Kano, and Sheeva, at the very least.

I think Sub would be around... 19 or so.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I don't count Ermac.... TKP is about his only real punish for clone.

So we have 2 characters. One of which (Kung Lao) can actually make a WRONG read, teleport 3, and still get his combo. fucking dumb.

In any case. The two lopsided matches really are Kabal and Kung Lao. Kenshi is up there...
Everyone else is winnable and needs more specific matchup experience. There really is no reason to think otherwise.

Online he probably is lower... but offline he is not. Being able to react to things is huge when it comes to trades. As well as timing his 2,2 for AA.

 

[Seapeople]

Green Lantern and Flash? Oh wait......errrr...wrong game.

Pffff Sub beats the Flash 6-4. Flash and GL are overrated

 

[Theme]

Kung Lao isn't a zoner.

I beg to differ. Kung lao has one of the greatest rushdowns, along with not bad projectiles, now if you add in his teleport, best defense tool of the game (spin aside from iceclone) and great pokes and foots, I think he is top 5 material. He can zone.... if done right.

Besides, what makes you think Im specifically talking about Kung Lao only? Raiden, Ermac, Kitana, Jax, Sektor, Cyrax, Mileena, Shang Tsung, Ive played all these characters agaisnt my friend's Sub Zero. He is not as bad as you Sub mainers complain him to be.

 

[Theme]

1. The armor on enhanced slide doesn't work if you're being zoned out full screen by Noob, Freddy, Kenshi, etc .... they will have plenty of time to recover and react to block low and punish.

Then get in at least 3/4th of the screen. If your being contained to the point where you cannot move, the simple fact is your being out played and out smarted. My friend has almost no problem throwing iceballs or icebeams at me, making me hesitant when I throw projectiles, 9% for 30%+ isnt a favorable trade in the least.

2. enhanced Ice ball doesn't always trade b/c the beam stops if you get hit, which is BS.

This is your problem with timing the projectile. Get better timing, Sub Zero can trade with most of the cast, aside from people like Kitana, Sonya, or Liu... Icebeam is fast as hell, if you cannot get the beam to hit before they hit you with one, your doin something wrong. Your timing is off and thats something you need to work on, instead of dismissing Sub Zero as low tier. Used right, hes nearly in the top 10. I challenge anyone to play my friend to a Sub Match who disagrees.

 

[WayoftheFist]

I don't count Ermac.... TKP is about his only real punish for clone.

So we have 2 characters. One of which (Kung Lao) can actually make a WRONG read, teleport 3, and still get his combo. fucking dumb.

In any case. The two lopsided matches really are Kabal and Kung Lao. Kenshi is up there...
Everyone else is winnable and needs more specific matchup experience. There really is no reason to think otherwise.

Online he probably is lower... but offline he is not. Being able to react to things is huge when it comes to trades. As well as timing his 2,2 for AA.

Winnable and advisable are two different things but I agree with you on the bad matchups. Kung Lao is just ridiculous. I don't have any offline experience against Kabal but it has been less than pleasant online. Kenshi takes away so much of Sub Zero's tools you are left with very little you can do. His zoning is not impossible to deal with but he will deal some chip and make you work to get in where chances are he will have a breaker if you do hit him or he will block and Spirit Charge you right back out. He can also make any string he wants safe against sub by ending it with Spirit Charge.

 

[Espio]

Stryker, Sheeva, and Baraka are better than Reptile? + Raiden at number 18? Interesting,

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Then get in at least 3/4th of the screen. If your being contained to the point where you cannot move, the simple fact is your being out played and out smarted. My friend has almost no problem throwing iceballs or icebeams at me, making me hesitant when I throw projectiles, 9% for 30%+ isnt a favorable trade in the least.



This is your problem with timing the projectile. Get better timing, Sub Zero can trade with most of the cast, aside from people like Kitana, Sonya, or Liu... Icebeam is fast as hell, if you cannot get the beam to hit before they hit you with one, your doin something wrong. Your timing is off and thats something you need to work on, instead of dismissing Sub Zero as low tier. Used right, hes nearly in the top 10. I challenge anyone to play my friend to a Sub Match who disagrees.

i'd probably beat him.

 

[Theme]

i'd probably beat him.

How would you know, if you havent tried?? Your not even on the PS3, stop talking out of your ass. By the way, good job dodging my whole post. So you agree, you just suck with timing your ice projectiles and being outmatched?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

How would you know, if you havent tried?? Your not even on the PS3, stop talking out of your ass. By the way, good job dodging my whole post. So you agree, you just suck with timing your ice projectiles and being outmatched?

LOL... dude I never said anything about timing projectiles or anything for that matter.
Thanks for paying attention though.
I will say that exFreeze is only good against certain characters. Normal Freeze is better overall. I'd rather save the meter to X-ray through a projectile.

I was a little drunk when I posted that BTW, I'm not one to openly say i'm better than someone i've never faced.

 

[Theme]

LOL... dude I never said anything about timing projectiles or anything for that matter.
Thanks for paying attention though.
I will say that exFreeze is only good against certain characters. Normal Freeze is better overall. I'd rather save the meter to X-ray through a projectile.

I was a little drunk when I posted that BTW, I'm not one to openly say i'm better than someone i've never faced.

Okay, bad misunderstanding.

But what I was saying was that iceballs can almost always trade with other projectiles, its not that slow... If your timing your iceball (icebeam would just be easier), then you will have no problem against other people throwing projectiles. Also, you must master the block-dash and guess right on when to JIP or when to faint and throw out an iceclone instead. Icebeam is hellah good, I dont know what your talking about lol. Its faster and is a beam, hence they cannot jump over it. Guess right and youll punish them for 30%+.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Okay, bad misunderstanding.

But what I was saying was that iceballs can almost always trade with other projectiles, its not that slow... If your timing your iceball (icebeam would just be easier), then you will have no problem against other people throwing projectiles. Also, you must master the block-dash and guess right on when to JIP or when to faint and throw out an iceclone instead. Icebeam is hellah good, I dont know what your talking about lol. Its faster and is a beam, hence they cannot jump over it. Guess right and youll punish them for 30%+.

Against people like Reptile and Cyrax... yeah Ice Beam is terrific. Because the trade goes automatically in your favor. It isn't good against like.. Milleena or Kitana or Kabal... characters that can alter their jump at their peak and avoid it all together.
However, why use ice beam against a projectile character, when the regular one does the same job? I get what you are saying. I agree with you. Learning the correct space to trade is essential to playing the character (I sometimes forget, i'm human!!).

Just takes lots of practice and MU experience. Which is basically what you said.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Then get in at least 3/4th of the screen. If your being contained to the point where you cannot move, the simple fact is your being out played and out smarted. My friend has almost no problem throwing iceballs or icebeams at me, making me hesitant when I throw projectiles, 9% for 30%+ isnt a favorable trade in the least.



This is your problem with timing the projectile. Get better timing, Sub Zero can trade with most of the cast, aside from people like Kitana, Sonya, or Liu... Icebeam is fast as hell, if you cannot get the beam to hit before they hit you with one, your doin something wrong. Your timing is off and thats something you need to work on, instead of dismissing Sub Zero as low tier. Used right, hes nearly in the top 10. I challenge anyone to play my friend to a Sub Match who disagrees.

A. Yes, you can get to 3/4ths of the screen pretty easily with one dodge of a projectile, then you have to guess right AGAIN to get mid-screen, then AGAIN to get close. OR you can just throw out the armored slide, but what does that get you? you're right back to mid-screen or further again. Pretty much a waste of a bar IMO, unless you threw them into the corner with it. EX slide is not as great as you think.

B. LOL, "get better timing" ... I know when to throw the ice ball to get the trade, problem is you have to GUESS when they are going to throw their projectile b/c you have to go first or they will recover in time to block it. As for icebeam, you'll get knocked out of it a lot. Just go try it for a few matches. This is something that Tom Brady is dead on about... ex icebeam needs to keep going whether you are hit or not. Cut the beam off and let it keep going.

Say what you want but Sub-Zero has problems with zoners and has to do waaay too much guessing whereas the opponent does not. He's not low tier, but he's not A+ tier either. Solid mid-tier... like RIGHT in the middle.

 

[Theme]

A. Yes, you can get to 3/4ths of the screen pretty easily with one dodge of a projectile, then you have to guess right AGAIN to get mid-screen, then AGAIN to get close. OR you can just throw out the armored slide, but what does that get you? you're right back to mid-screen or further again. Pretty much a waste of a bar IMO, unless you threw them into the corner with it. EX slide is not as great as you think.

Damn... if only Sub Zero had great block-dashing... As I said, if you cannot get in range of at least 3/4s, your being out played and out guessed. You are fairly beaten. If you cannot beat a player JUST throwing projectiles, thats your fault, and again, you need to learn how to deal with it. Dont chalk it up to Sub Zero's inabilities. Hes capable, Ive seen it done and have been on the other side of the table being done to me countless times. You need more than my word? Just watch the countless other Sub Zero videos from people like Tom Brady or Denzel.

B. LOL, "get better timing" ... I know when to throw the ice ball to get the trade, problem is you have to GUESS when they are going to throw their projectile b/c you have to go first or they will recover in time to block it. As for icebeam, you'll get knocked out of it a lot. Just go try it for a few matches. This is something that Tom Brady is dead on about... ex icebeam needs to keep going whether you are hit or not. Cut the beam off and let it keep going.

You realize as long as you throw an iceball before they throw their projectile, they will get hit, enabling you to get close and deal up to 30%. Mortal Kombat is not all skill. Its a fighting game, and that requires guessing, and guessing right. If you guess wrong and make the wrong move, your going to get punished. This game requires a lot more mind games than you apparently think. If you are anticipating *key word right there, if you cannot anticipate, your not playing the game on a high level, in which case, your opinion isnt very valid* then you can act accordingly. Liu kang has a VERY fast projectile, but Sub Zero doesnt have that hard of a time to trade. Your doing something wrong obviously. I think its stupid to want the beam to "keep going". Why not just give it armor, it does practically the same thing your asking, but it would make more sense.

Say what you want but Sub-Zero has problems with zoners and has to do waaay too much guessing whereas the opponent does not. He's not low tier, but he's not A+ tier either. Solid mid-tier... like RIGHT in the middle.

Thats your opinion, I say hes top 12. Sub Zero has some trouble with zoners. Guessing is part of the game, and for Subzero, thats how his playstyle is. No ones forcing you to play Sub Zero and his playstyle. Pick another character that you think 'requires' less guessing, but I warn you, might as well quit MK because this game is all about making the right read.

 

[Dark_Rob]

B. LOL, "get better timing" ... I know when to throw the ice ball to get the trade, problem is you have to GUESS when they are going to throw their projectile b/c you have to go first or they will recover in time to block it.

This is the classic wrong reason to throw an ice blast. You should never be throwing ice blasts with the intention of trying to trade with your opponents projectiles. The purpose of iceblast is to occupy and control space. You ALWAYS want to get off first with ice blast. Instead of trying to trade with your opponent your putting a moving combo on the screen and daring them to try and trade with you. By checking your opponent this way you force them to hesitate and fore go they're own zoning. Your absolutely right in saying you have to go first, hell yes, get that ice blast on the screen first. But not to look for a trade. Do it and dare THEM to try and trade. By not caring about trading, youll find yourself trading with projectiles that seemed untradable. Put that ice blast out there, let your opponent worry about trading.

 

[Raptor]

Dark Rob is right. Ice beam is for occupying space and catching ppl who are jumping. I personally can confirm that icebeam is NOT tradeable with reptile's acid spit. I played with one sub zero and he tried to ice beam me from full screen twice in a row...I just cast acid spit twice and he was 2 meter bars down cos icebeam didnt even reach half of the screen before my spit hit him. So as Dark Rob said icebeam is not to trade unless u trade it with ice ball of another sub zero ^^. Then again I always use ice ball for trades. From 3/4 screen I believe U can trade with anybody correct me if Im wrong.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Dark Rob is right. Ice beam is for occupying space and catching ppl who are jumping. I personally can confirm that icebeam is NOT tradeable with reptile's acid spit. I played with one sub zero and he tried to ice beam me from full screen twice in a row...I just cast acid spit twice and he was 2 meter bars down cos icebeam didnt even reach half of the screen before my spit hit him. So as Dark Rob said icebeam is not to trade unless u trade it with ice ball of another sub zero ^^. Then again I always use ice ball for trades. From 3/4 screen I believe U can trade with anybody correct me if Im wrong.

depends on the character. Depends on if you already have placed your projectile on the screen.
SZ should only ice beam Reptile when he SEES an acid ball.

 

[RampaginDragon]

Shang is 12 and CSZ is 29? Sniffle My only good match up is so much higher up then CSZ

Actually for the most part, I agree with the list. (Exept for that blastphamy ) If this is based on MU 's then I agree with CSZ placement. But if its based on how good the fighter actually is, then I think he should be a little higher. Im not asking to change your list, I like your list. Just throwing in my 2 cents.

I kinda feel like saying any fighter in the game is the worst fighter in the game is incorrect. Every fighter has its own potential. But lists have to have a start and end I guess .