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Sub-Zero Match-ups

thebus99

Noob
Are there any matchup tips versus Jade? I very rarely lose to her but I know for a fact its a losing Matchup because I need to play like a psycho just to win like being patient does not work at all. but still I feel this character I cannot just wash
 
Are there any matchup tips versus Jade? I very rarely lose to her but I know for a fact its a losing Matchup because I need to play like a psycho just to win like being patient does not work at all. but still I feel this character I cannot just wash
Jade players tend to overestimate the time they've got that projectile armour, so I simply wait and once I know its about to where off, I catch them off guard throwing projectiles.

Apart from that when I get a decent enough life lead I subside to the corner and simply dodge/block her projectiles. It is soon clear that they'll have to approach me to get any sort of damage and Jade players tend to make mistakes then.
 

thebus99

Noob
Jade players tend to overestimate the time they've got that projectile armour, so I simply wait and once I know its about to where off, I catch them off guard throwing projectiles.

Apart from that when I get a decent enough life lead I subside to the corner and simply dodge/block her projectiles. It is soon clear that they'll have to approach me to get any sort of damage and Jade players tend to make mistakes then.
Jade players tend to overestimate the time they've got that projectile armour, so I simply wait and once I know its about to where off, I catch them off guard throwing projectiles.

Apart from that when I get a decent enough life lead I subside to the corner and simply dodge/block her projectiles. It is soon clear that they'll have to approach me to get any sort of damage and Jade players tend to make mistakes then.
right right its just a struggle playing vs her really i really just go balls the wall
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
What can SZ do against Clean Cut Kabal? I can’t find an answer to Air Downward Buzzsaw.
 

SubZeroIce

Runway
Are there any matchup tips versus Jade? I very rarely lose to her but I know for a fact its a losing Matchup because I need to play like a psycho just to win like being patient does not work at all. but still I feel this character I cannot just wash
Yeah, honestly, maniac play is the best bet. We can punish glow with slide on reaction so as soon as you see her put it up, hit the slide.

I play thin ice, and it's tough cause her jump air rang is too high to trade on the ice ball ever. I hate that character. No reason for her to have glow AND 4 projectiles lmao.
 

thebus99

Noob
Yeah, honestly, maniac play is the best bet. We can punish glow with slide on reaction so as soon as you see her put it up, hit the slide.

I play thin ice, and it's tough cause her jump air rang is too high to trade on the ice ball ever. I hate that character. No reason for her to have glow AND 4 projectiles lmao.
Yeah its pretty crazy we need to force f4s down her throat and just keep trying to get in lol play neutral and footsies doesnt exist lmao all my fundamentals go out the window vs jades. And they'll swear up and down sub vs jade is an even matchup lmaoooo, sike.
 

thebus99

Noob
I usually play Dead Of Winter but trying to learn all the integral parts of Thin Ice because it really does make some MU's a lot easier, the main thing I need to learn is using Slide WHILE in the crouching position without standing back up does anybody know how to do it?
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
I usually play Dead Of Winter but trying to learn all the integral parts of Thin Ice because it really does make some MU's a lot easier, the main thing I need to learn is using Slide WHILE in the crouching position without standing back up does anybody know how to do it?
Yee. Make sure input shortcuts are ON. Hold crouch, roll to d/b then d/f. Probably the most useful tech he has.
 

thebus99

Noob
Yee. Make sure input shortcuts are ON. Hold crouch, roll to d/b then d/f. Probably the most useful tech he has.
Ok thank you gonna have to practice this because my Dead Of Winter is pretty raw(Elder God) and wanna learn thin ice to make MU's easier and pretty much this is essential to know how to do to be worth it. ill practice it and i appreciate all your videos of exposing characters and to beat them, keep em coming lol
 

Espio

The Fool Arcana
Lead Moderator
Yeah, honestly, maniac play is the best bet. We can punish glow with slide on reaction so as soon as you see her put it up, hit the slide.

I play thin ice, and it's tough cause her jump air rang is too high to trade on the ice ball ever. I hate that character. No reason for her to have glow AND 4 projectiles lmao.
Based on your experience that certainly does not work on good Jade players, the goal should be viable tactics to help sub players win not ways to get them killed quicker cause good Jades put scrubby play to bed quick. The only part I agree on is slide because that alone makes going for glow risky because of how long recovery is, the speed of slide and distance it covers, it's not a flow chart means to deal with Sub's ice balls. Sub can also punish spark at some ranges, outright goes under straight glaive and why does he care about anti-air glaive again? Her air downward glaive is the only real concerning projectile versus this character. Braindead plays the match up optimally, I haven't seen any other Sub do as such. I am terrified of a Sub that understands the importance of intelligent slides, utilizing his good forward advancing movement, making glaives whiff with slide and punishing, punishing a lot of her staff normals with slide and getting your Krushing blow loaded off of every single one. Sub has good buttons to contend and before you reply with "some of them are high" Jade's back 2 is high and boys be running into it and complaining about it so what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I'm not impressed because aside from Braindead I haven't seen a single Sub play with the poise that has me checking for them and showing a mu that is not dismal as advertised.
 

thebus99

Noob
Based on your experience that certainly does not work on good Jade players, the goal should be viable tactics to help sub players win not ways to get them killed quicker cause good Jades put scrubby play to bed quick. The only part I agree on is slide because that alone makes going for glow risky because of how long recovery is, the speed of slide and distance it covers, it's not a flow chart means to deal with Sub's ice balls. Sub can also punish spark at some ranges, outright goes under straight glaive and why does he care about anti-air glaive again? Her air downward glaive is the only real concerning projectile versus this character. Braindead plays the match up optimally, I haven't seen any other Sub do as such. I am terrified of a Sub that understands the importance of intelligent slides, utilizing his good forward advancing movement, making glaives whiff with slide and punishing, punishing a lot of her staff normals with slide and getting your Krushing blow loaded off of every single one. Sub has good buttons to contend and before you reply with "some of them are high" Jade's back 2 is high and boys be running into it and complaining about it so what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I'm not impressed because aside from Braindead I haven't seen a single Sub play with the poise that has me checking for them and showing a mu that is not dismal as advertised.
Yeah you haven't played My sub and I use dead of winter, theres no playing patient when using DoW vs jade you need to get in and stay in the whole time. Hence I think Thin Ice can be played a little more patient and differently which is why im trying to learn that one.
 

thebus99

Noob
Yeah you haven't played My sub and I use dead of winter, theres no playing patient when using DoW vs jade you need to get in and stay in the whole time. Hence I think Thin Ice can be played a little more patient and differently which is why im trying to learn that one.
Fyi Maniac play is very viable actually
 

JavierDavila

ALWAYS an uphill battle...
I usually try to slide as soon as she (Jade) jumps to do her air projectile. I land right below her and when shes landing I full combo punish. I hate that match up, tho.
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
I could use a couple of tips on dealing with Noob Saibot's buttons. Like, his variation doesn't bother me as much as his buttons and strings do. I just have a hard time getting in on him or getting any punishes on him.

I'm open to using either variation of Sub-Zero. I alternate back and forth pretty evenly.

Here's some recent footage of me at my weekly local going up against Noob. First set starts at the 14:15 mark and the second at 1:19:35:

 
Against noob, you want to throw shit into his f2 string. So backdash iceball every now and then to check it.

Also the first hit is high, I believe sub can slide on whiff and it will punish or beat the follow up. Not sure if that is a react or read scenario but try it out.

He is a frustrating character to fight in general because you can't jump on him. Also trading projectiles doesn't work well. So you have to play his buttons.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I could use a couple of tips on dealing with Noob Saibot's buttons. Like, his variation doesn't bother me as much as his buttons and strings do. I just have a hard time getting in on him or getting any punishes on him.

I'm open to using either variation of Sub-Zero. I alternate back and forth pretty evenly.

Here's some recent footage of me at my weekly local going up against Noob. First set starts at the 14:15 mark and the second at 1:19:35:

Thin Ice is much better against Noob. He has a punish to the b1 string and you can load up the KB for when you need to kill.

if you punish every single b1 1+3 (the sickle grab move) with slide you'll be fine.

I would also advise to save defensive meter for drop outs. He doesn't have the best Oki. Better to take chip off of some string then get hit with a 400damage bnb.

I watched that set. I would tell your local Noob to do the optimal BnB (it does 399) to help you out. Then I would lab up punish f2 on whiff. It is awkward because the first hit is the clone and has no hurtbox. Noob has alot of visual shenanigans that if you can get past are VERY helpful in dealing with him.
 

thebus99

Noob
What is better vs cassie DoW or Thin Ice? cassie is insane lmao like you cant even move vs this character.
 
I could use a couple of tips on dealing with Noob Saibot's buttons. Like, his variation doesn't bother me as much as his buttons and strings do.
Ex-noob main here, I would say SZ blows up noob quite well. You're just unfamiliar with his buttons and MU? So jumping unless you have the read on something vs noob is a bad idea, especially against DS variant as I will be fishing for that jump so I can full combo off it with TP or normal conversion or even the huge D2. Shimmy is king vs noob, he's very punishable. Noob also has a severe lack of overheads, none on a button and last hit on a very predictable, slow string with no 50s guessing mix/cancel which can be punished easily. You can bait the b1 1+3 (which pulls you in for the damage) and do horrible things as it's unsafe on block. Noticed he keeps catching you with b3 in the video which is a fast, ranged low, it does have fairly long recovery IIRC. As you know noob has no real overhead option just focus on the low block as you're coming in/neutral and in general really.

That said the biggest problem you have is playing DoW when Thin Ice is exactly what you need. Slide goes through everything noob has, even the mid clone he sends out. With that key noob loses all the pressure he's keeping you out with and it's GG as SZ actually has a mix and all the rest. Slide will also catch DS TP if timed well. Couple that with the generally unfavourable trade with ice ball and he's toast. Will probably start looking for walk up throws and hop OHs if he can no longer keep you out. The b2 he also catches you with has no special cancel and now noob also has the added downside of the knockback not having any use as he's at a disadvantage again. It's low damage too so don't fear it too much.

Hope that's of some use?
 
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thebus99

Noob
Okay so I hands down think Cetrion is basically a 7-3 matchup at this point, its basically impossible to ever touch this character. forcing F4s does not work because of rock wall, cant use iceballs unless they are caught slipping pressing a button, cant jump in because of rock wall, theres pretty much no answer for cetrion if anyone has any tips to make it BEARABLE please let me know lol. And this is for DoW