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Sub-Zero Match-ups

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
In an effort to do something a bit more productive and character progression I’m starting thread (which I’m hoping someone much more qualified than myself will make a better one) to talk about Subs match ups and just get general advice and point of views from the Subzero community’s Match up experience so far. I remember back in MK9 these forums were so helpful for learning match-ups and my over all player progression. I hope this thread and others like it will be a step back in that direction not just for me but for everyone who is both new and old. So without further delay let’s talk match-ups. I know the game is only a week old but I like to get peoples early thoughts and solutions versus some characters and cast thus far.
 

Landonio

n00b
I really need some help against Erron, Scorpion, and Sonyer. Basically the top tiers. They're so absurdly strong in this game and seem to have so few weaknesses. On top of being just very low effort/braindead. Not fun to fight against.

EDIT: Might as well throw in defensive Liu Kangs, Jades, and Kabals. I feel like Sub really struggles in these types of matchups. I feel like I need to main a character with a teleport to counter like Noob or Scorpion or something.
 
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Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
I personally haven’t fought too many of the characters in MK11. Scorpion is usually just a game of patience and waiting for him to hang himself. With Liu Kang there is an 8 frame or better gap between f43U3 which is his main pressure string.
 

Landonio

n00b
I personally haven’t fought too many of the characters in MK11. Scorpion is usually just a game of patience and waiting for him to hang himself. With Liu Kang there is an 8 frame or better gap between f43U3 which is his main pressure string.
I'm aware of that. But I'm specifically talking about more defensive Liu Kangs. Also the good Liu Kangs aren't going to always finish that string.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
I really need some help against Erron, Scorpion, and Sonyer. Basically the top tiers. They're so absurdly strong in this game and seem to have so few weaknesses. On top of being just very low effort/braindead. Not fun to fight against.

EDIT: Might as well throw in defensive Liu Kangs and Kabals. I feel like Sub really struggles in this types of matchups. I feel like I need to main a character with a teleport to counter like Noob or Scorpion or something.
Scorpion is a mid range character that relies mostly on throws/whiff punishing for offense. D4 and f3 are the moves you’ll see most in footsie range. B1/b2 are his main whiff punishing tools. Subz getup moves u2/u3 don’t have good range and he can whiff punish from pretty far with b2. Use them when you make a good read.

V1 - Receives Air Throw & Teleport Cancel. This variation revolves around TP cancel. You’ll see the behind cancel most of the time. If he cancels on the ground, he lands just outside of throw distance. If he cancels airborne, he’ll be touching you. He’ll want to try to condition you with throws after the cancel to get you pressing buttons. After that it’s all whiff punishing. Your best options are d4 or walk/jump backward. It resets the neutral and he just wasted a defense bar.

For general offense, he’ll be using that f3 so get used to it. It’s not as scary as V2 because he doesn’t have f32, so no overhead that can lead to combo. Air throw isn’t really a big deal if you’re playing footsies like you should. You won’t beat him in the air though so don’t try.

V2 - Receives Death Spin, Burning Spear, & f32 - 212+4. Scorp’s range is extended because of death spin, does more damage w/ burning spear, & f32 offers more setups from f3.

You want to remain just inside his death spin range. Subz can punish death spin on block, but you want to force him to use f3. After a blocked f3 he has a few common options;
-throw​
-d1/d3​
-walk back​
-f34​
-f32 hit confirm​
Great part is Subz only has to be concerned with 1 option, & that’s f34. Since Subz has a 6f d1 he can recklessly d1 after a blocked f3. F34 will KB if you get hit by it, so be careful. You can also stay patient after f3. If he lets f32 rip he’s gonna eat a full combo.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
@Endeavor can you edit the OP to have spoiler sections for each character? That way when match ups are fleshed out we’ll know where to look for info
 

Landonio

n00b
Scorpion is a mid range character that relies mostly on throws/whiff punishing for offense. D4 and f3 are the moves you’ll see most in footsie range. B1/b2 are his main whiff punishing tools. Subz getup moves u2/u3 don’t have good range and he can whiff punish from pretty far with b2. Use them when you make a good read.

V1 - Receives Air Throw & Teleport Cancel. This variation revolves around TP cancel. You’ll see the behind cancel most of the time. If he cancels on the ground, he lands just outside of throw distance. If he cancels airborne, he’ll be touching you. He’ll want to try to condition you with throws after the cancel to get you pressing buttons. After that it’s all whiff punishing. Your best options are d4 or walk/jump backward. It resets the neutral and he just wasted a defense bar.

For general offense, he’ll be using that f3 so get used to it. It’s not as scary as V2 because he doesn’t have f32, so no overhead that can lead to combo. Air throw isn’t really a big deal if you’re playing footsies like you should. You won’t beat him in the air though so don’t try.

V2 - Receives Death Spin, Burning Spear, & f32 - 212+4. Scorp’s range is extended because of death spin, does more damage w/ burning spear, & f32 offers more setups from f3.

You want to remain just inside his death spin range. Subz can punish death spin on block, but you want to force him to use f3. After a blocked f3 he has a few common options;
-throw​
-d1/d3​
-walk back​
-f34​
-f32 hit confirm​
Great part is Subz only has to be concerned with 1 option, & that’s f34. Since Subz has a 6f d1 he can recklessly d1 after a blocked f3. F34 will KB if you get hit by it, so be careful. You can also stay patient after f3. If he lets f32 rip he’s gonna eat a full combo.
Good stuff. A little easier said than done, but appreciated nonetheless.
 

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
@Endeavor can you edit the OP to have spoiler sections for each character? That way when match ups are fleshed out we’ll know where to look for info
Honestly I’m not sure I haven’t spent much time on here in a long time. As stated in my op if someone wants to take this thread over of or make a new one be my guest.
 

ivan

Noob
Got a problem with Liu Kang spamming f43, f43u3. Cant punish this. How to get out of this? Can I punish it with full combo?
 
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OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
Got a problem with Liu Kang spamming f43, f43u3. Cant punish this. How to get out of this? Can I punish it with full combo?
F43*u3 the gap is where the asterisk is. You can interrupt with 12 xx ice ball.

You can also flawless block u3. It’s an easy one.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
Got a problem with Liu Kang spamming f43, f43u3. Cant punish this. How to get out of this? Can I punish it with full combo?
Careful with interruptions there. Usually I use a parry after f43 in case someone d1 me. Either d3 it or flawless block
 

Sazbak

Noob
Doesn’t counter poking add you one more frame after blocking? That was in MKX
You can definitely punish f43 with Sub's d1 I tested it in practice mode.

Also just to complete the whole picture regarding the f43u3 mind games, it's true that even though d1 beats both f43 and f43u3,
parry beats d1.

To beat parry you can use slide to beat both parry and f43u3 but in case Liu does f43 only he can combo punish the slide.
If Liu is really parry happy and you want to go for the big reward with Sub because you're certain he will use parry you can do b32 df1 against the parry for a combo.
 
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DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
You can definitely punish f43 with Sub's d1 I tested it in practice mode.

Also just to complete the whole picture regarding the f43u3 mind games, it's true that even though d1 beats both f43 and f43u3,
parry beats d1.

To beat parry you can use slide to beat both parry and f43u3 but in case Liu does f43 only he can combo punish the slide.
If Liu is really parry happy and you want to go for the big reward with Sub because you're certain he will use parry you can do b32 df1 against the parry for a combo.
Yeah, I know the last part
 

Sazbak

Noob
Can you give me any tips against Kabal? This character seems super solid without any weaknesses other than the unsafe low special move.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Royal Contributor
You can interrupt LK's F43u3 with d3 to eliminate the parry cancel guessing game as well. LK will only have a low fireball cancel option remaining but that's unsafe.

Generally it's exhausting dealing with his F4 game. Too many staggers and mindgames
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
Can you give me any tips against Kabal? This character seems super solid without any weaknesses other than the unsafe low special move.
I don’t block low since he has no combo off of it, thing is he’s the one who tries to get in and gets his ass mix-uped. Poke backdash takes away his mid knee option. Thin Ice is dangerous to play against him, Sub loses badly
 

Rpgz

Fraudguad/Weeb?
How do I fight kung lao? He just runs me over. Dont know what i can do against him.
I hear he has a lot of high strings you can duck, also a lot of unsafe mixup moves. any player who can out punish KL will kill him...and sub is good at...punishing, so it should be in your favor tbh...