Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[I GOT HANDS]

Also, it's really not THAT gimmicky. REBELO does something similar all the time, when he gets a freeze he resets it with a D3 often and then uses the +14 to go into another 50/50. This one is really good because people are usually blocking low against Sub once the combo starts, and D3 looks just like B33, so the B2 reset is really reliable.

 

[RM Ree]

@loogie the point of that combo was to show that it's /possible/ to put clone out mid combo and shatter to deal a lot of damage.

There are a few reasons we should learn this. One being, if you're at 10% life and catch your breakerless opponent while you're going for f42 xx clone, you can opt for a maximum damage combo and close out the match. Another reason being if we can figure out a way to refreeze without using meter using this combo or one like it, we can net some pretty insane damage for 1 bar. That's the reason I posted it, because it's new and it could turn into something more.

Not learning this is an option, but it's a bad one. It's the same way you'd close out a match with an x-ray combo, only difference being the opponent can break it.

 

[loogie]

@loogie the point of that combo was to show that it's /possible/ to put clone out mid combo and shatter to deal a lot of damage.

There are a few reasons we should learn this. One being, if you're at 10% life and catch your breakerless opponent while you're going for f42 xx clone, you can opt for a maximum damage combo and close out the match. Another reason being if we can figure out a way to refreeze without using meter using this combo or one like it, we can net some pretty insane damage for 1 bar. That's the reason I posted it, because it's new and it could turn into something more.

Not learning this is an option, but it's a bad one. It's the same way you'd close out a match with an x-ray combo, only difference being the opponent can break it.

Ok, fair enough. But in an actual match, in the corner IF you throw out an F4 ex clone you can react quick enough to hit confirm into another F42 and do the combo? what's the link like, how many frames to link and how tight is it? which makes it little difficult to pull off, if in practice you were unable to consistently pull it off, how then in a real match? where your standard go-to options in the corner are set a clone then: grab or b33 or b2 or d4 - I don't see where f4 comes in at the expense of a bar to get the ex clone out and do the two bar combo.
don't get me wrong, it is a good find you have there but will it be practical though?

 

[loogie]

Also, it's really not THAT gimmicky. REBELO does something similar all the time, when he gets a freeze he resets it with a D3 often and then uses the +14 to go into another 50/50. This one is really good because people are usually blocking low against Sub once the combo starts, and D3 looks just like B33, so the B2 reset is really reliable.

to tell you the truth I have fiddled with this (you call it a no-gimmick I call it gimmick is not important here) but the success rate of opting to corner carry them at every chance I got was much higher then going for a standing reset off of a b12 or a d3. so I never really bothered making it a habit to use this tactic.

 

[RM Ree]

@loogie I know it looks tough, and I'm not gonna lie, it is hard to do, but only at first. Before their buff, D'Vorah mains were pulling off 2 frame links on bug cancels not too long ago, trying to make their combos/ pressure work. But they did it, and only days before CEO.

The difficulty of something in fighting games is always relative. Our links will never be harder than a frame and other players have shown us that this small of a link is still practical. USFIV players pull off these tight links all the time. We owe it to ourselves to be able to do these kinds of things, or at the very least know it's an option. Things like this separate the good from the great.

Now that I've had some time in the lab, I can do this combo with about 50% consistency, and rising. The link after ex statue isn't that hard, and knowing the f4 xx statue timing is going to benefit SZ mains no matter what due to how massively + it is, even on block (honestly the harder part is linking d1>b12 after shatter). Try this on someone like Jason or Goro and just feel it out. Once we have some more members doing it, someone is going to find something better and more practical. Also, styling in people is important too.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

about ending the combos midscreen with a b12 into a 50/50... I am of the opinion that this is gimmicky. we all know that his b2 is punished on block, so why do you want to take a risk and give your opponent the opportunity to turn things around on you, while instead you can do his standard bnb after a b12 freeze and carry them to the corner where you want to play your game.
so the mixup in that scenario, is either a grab or his low starter? I would take the corner carry option anytime.

It may be gimmicky... but it works. You have a 50% chance of it working, Sub gets like 30% off his standard B12 combos midscreen which is kind of pathetic. This loses 8% for a chance for 30% more on a correct guess. So IMO the risk is worth it.

 

[RM Ree]

This mid screen reset with b12 works wonders in Cryomancer, I don't see why it wouldn't work in GM. To me, it's a comeback strat when you're at chip percents and ~30% won't put food on the table for the lil Lin Kuei's.

 

[ZeZe]

Anybody found good uses for 114? I've seen it used several times (during ESL I think?) midscreen, but it seams only practical against big bodies (Goro, Pred, Jax, Jason, Kotal, F/T, Tremor) in the corner after clone cancel. Like F4,2~clone, 114.

On that note: I am not able to get MB clone from F4,2 ~ex clone on not blocking opponent. When they block it's all fine. If they are not, it will never come out (like it's not even a matter of randomness) and it will always cancel into normal one. Not sure if it's PC specific issue. If someone on console could test it would be much appreciated.

 

[loogie]

Anybody found good uses for 114? I've seen it used several times (during ESL I think?) midscreen, but it seams only practical against big bodies (Goro, Pred, Jax, Jason, Kotal, F/T, Tremor) in the corner after clone cancel. Like F4,2~clone, 114.

On that note: I am not able to get MB clone from F4,2 ~ex clone on not blocking opponent. When they block it's all fine. If they are not, it will never come out (like it's not even a matter of randomness) and it will always cancel into normal one. Not sure if it's PC specific issue. If someone on console could test it would be much appreciated.

the ex clone cancel issue has been known for a while, there were several vids by Tom Brady on that matter. Apparently it has to do with 'breathing hitboxes' which I still cannot wrap my head around.
conclusion, and as confirmed by NRS, this will not be fixed. So we deal with it, and don't ever rely on an ex clone cancel after a string.

PS: the vids been taken down I think, I just checked on the youtube channel

 

[loogie]

@loogie I know it looks tough, and I'm not gonna lie, it is hard to do, but only at first. Before their buff, D'Vorah mains were pulling off 2 frame links on bug cancels not too long ago, trying to make their combos/ pressure work. But they did it, and only days before CEO.

The difficulty of something in fighting games is always relative. Our links will never be harder than a frame and other players have shown us that this small of a link is still practical. USFIV players pull off these tight links all the time. We owe it to ourselves to be able to do these kinds of things, or at the very least know it's an option. Things like this separate the good from the great.

Now that I've had some time in the lab, I can do this combo with about 50% consistency, and rising. The link after ex statue isn't that hard, and knowing the f4 xx statue timing is going to benefit SZ mains no matter what due to how massively + it is, even on block (honestly the harder part is linking d1>b12 after shatter). Try this on someone like Jason or Goro and just feel it out. Once we have some more members doing it, someone is going to find something better and more practical. Also, styling in people is important too.

Are you able to get ex statue consistently to come out?

 

[loogie]

It may be gimmicky... but it works. You have a 50% chance of it working, Sub gets like 30% off his standard B12 combos midscreen which is kind of pathetic. This loses 8% for a chance for 30% more on a correct guess. So IMO the risk is worth it.

30% yes, but you take them to the corner with it ... I don't even mind getting 20% only and taking them to the corner, then it's party-time in the corner and the real damage begins. Why do you want to take a chance (50%) of them guessing correctly and ending your offense there, once in the corner they'll be in panic mode and trying to get out vs Sub.

Anyway, it's a choice and you must be having good results with it to be advocating the tactic. Peace.

 

[ZeZe]

the ex clone cancel issue has been known for a while, there were several vids by Tom Brady on that matter. Apparently it has to do with 'breathing hitboxes' which I still cannot wrap my head around.

Yes, I know that and it makes sense why ex clone does not come constantly. But it does come out sometimes (when hitbox gets smaller while opponent's character's exhaling thus proximity check allows for MB clone). Here I have a situation when it does not come out at all when they are not blocking and comes out when they are blocking. It's a bit different issue, although it might be caused by the same thing. I'm only curious if it's something PC specific.

Plus: It's a shame 114 is limited to only big hitbox characters. This string is so likable.

 

[RM Ree]

Are you able to get ex statue consistently to come out?

Yes, at the range specified (default corner reset from practice mode) ex clone comes out 100% of the time.

Close f4 xx statue will result in the breathing hit box issue (more often than not though, it gives me f42 instead of either clone).

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

30% yes, but you take them to the corner with it ... I don't even mind getting 20% only and taking them to the corner, then it's party-time in the corner and the real damage begins. Why do you want to take a chance (50%) of them guessing correctly and ending your offense there, once in the corner they'll be in panic mode and trying to get out vs Sub.

Anyway, it's a choice and you must be having good results with it to be advocating the tactic. Peace.

It's not hard to get someone to the corner in MKX. Like almost every combo for everyone takes you there. So, why settle for 30% into the corner when you can get 50%+?

Playing safe doesn't always work, especially in a game like this.

But to each their own.

 

[Creepy00]

So, I was messing around with Ree's f4 Ex iceclone combo, and figured out something rather odd. Subzero's f4 on hit and as well on block, changes a male character's breathing hitbox (?). This allows sub's standing 4~iceclone to connect consistently in the corner for a 29% ice clone set up combo, but will reset if ended by a hard knockdown or followed by another f4.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

So, I was messing around with Ree's f4 Ex iceclone combo, and figured out something rather odd. Subzero's f4 on hit and as well on block, changes a male character's breathing hitbox (?). This allows sub's standing 4~iceclone to connect consistently in the corner for a 29% ice clone set up combo, but will reset if ended by a hard knockdown or followed by another f4.

4~Ice Clone is a terrible opener for beginners, but regardless it isn't breathe box related, it's consistency is stance related

 

[Ravosa]

What's the b2 female corner combo everybody uses? The one in the OP is old and not that good.

 

[Creepy00]

4~Ice Clone is a terrible opener for beginners, but regardless it isn't breathe box related, it's consistency is stance related

Now that you mentioned it, I noticed that it is indeed stance related. I wasn't aware that certain moves, other knockdowns could change the opponent's stance. Still, it just gives another option to convert from standing 4 lands, which is neutral on block.

 

[RM Ree]

There are a few versions.
- b2, b2, 1, 1, b12 xx clone...
- b2, b2, 1, b3 xx clone...
- b2, b2, b12 xx enhanced ice blast...

Most reliable being the meter use. Think of it as a trade off for being able to combo b33 meterless mid screen on females.

 

[ZeZe]

B3 always connects on males (like ALWAYS) and most of the time on females. If you wanna keep it safe, b3~clone finisher all the way after whatever.

 

[KoldSpecter]

If you got execution and lag problems, but wanna make safe klone setup on every characters from the overhead not depending on the hitbox, here's combo:
b2-11-iceball-njp-jip-ENDER [you can end it with NJK, f12, b33d4 - every ender that gives you safe klone setup] ~ 25% dmg

 

[Rebelo]

I've been a subzero main for awhile now and been pretty successful with him but I have never in my life seen a character with as much loses matches as subzero and I've been a high lvl player in pretty much every fighter that matters from sf4 to marvel to injustice to ki to mkx now and this character got way to many matches that are not in his favor it's fucken retarded he loses to sshinnok kung Lao predator Liu kang kenshi devora qaun chi ferratorr Tanya ermac and most likely mileena that's a lot of losing matches its just redick!

 

[Rebelo]

Tom also thinks he loses to erron black I think it's 5-5 to be honest

 

[Endeavor]

I've been a subzero main for awhile now and been pretty successful with him but I have never in my life seen a character with as much loses matches as subzero and I've been a high lvl player in pretty much every fighter that matters from sf4 to marvel to injustice to ki to mkx now and this character got way to many matches that are not in his favor it's fucken retarded he loses to sshinnok kung Lao predator Liu kang kenshi devora qaun chi ferratorr Tanya ermac and most likely mileena that's a lot of losing matches its just redick!

So you think he loses to liu Kang too huh? Honestly DF is the worst to deal with, way worst than flame fist. And honestly it was worst in mk9 I personally think Ermac is 5-5 but your probably facing really strong Mac players.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I've been a subzero main for awhile now and been pretty successful with him but I have never in my life seen a character with as much loses matches as subzero and I've been a high lvl player in pretty much every fighter that matters from sf4 to marvel to injustice to ki to mkx now and this character got way to many matches that are not in his favor it's fucken retarded he loses to sshinnok kung Lao predator Liu kang kenshi devora qaun chi ferratorr Tanya ermac and most likely mileena that's a lot of losing matches its just redick!

You forgot Raiden

PS you are my favourite Sub-Zero player to watch