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Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

SWonder916

When's DragonBall?
Can you add for mid screen mid-air frozen combos - neutral jump punch, 1, B12, ice smash for 18%. This is the most damage I can get mid screen, does anyone know if there's a higher damage string than this? I'd really like to be able to break 20% when someone jumps on my frickin' clone.
Same here. That's the one I was doing closer to the corner and the 1,2,3 Slide if not. Punishing over 20% would be lovely
 

Embestone

Stoen
So, just to add to the many new b2 corner combos coming out, I found one that does 2% more than the old one, and can be looped.

b2, b2, 1 1 d1 b12 xx Ice Clone.... yada yada... Video below.
I should add a disclaimer to this... While consistent offline, this shit is hella hard to do consistently online, if at all.
 
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Psyren136

Apprentice
Can you add for mid screen mid-air frozen combos - neutral jump punch, 1, B12, ice smash for 18%. This is the most damage I can get mid screen, does anyone know if there's a higher damage string than this? I'd really like to be able to break 20% when someone jumps on my frickin' clone.
What about: NJP - 2 4 2 - Slide ?

Wouldn't that net a little more damage than 18%?
 

Durango

Enhancer
Do you feel Grandmaster is overall more effective than Cryomancer? I feel Cryomancer's strength comes from two things:

-Cold Blooded
-EX Hammer

Cold Blooded is an ender that deals substantial damage and is a potential reset. Unfortunately, Sub-Zero is in neutral, which makes escape almost too easy for opponents at mid-screen.

EX Hammer is an armored move and a starter. The downsides are that it's easily punished by jumping over or neutral jumping. And when Sub-Zero has no meter, he loses this option. Also note that, as Cryomancer, your ability to build meter is limited.

Whereas in Grandmaster, Ice Clone can be propped without meter. Both have a corner game, but once again, you have options without using any meter in Grandmaster. You can defend yourself from projectiles, throw the clone, burst it, or use it to combo into EX Slide. You can use the Clone to throw Ice Balls and build some meter as well.

But again, the corner game. Using Cold Blooded as an ender is a limited "reset" and people can get out easier if you have no meter for EX Hammer. Grandmaster has the Clone option, and outside of Cold Blooded (in which you switch your ender with Slide instead of the shanks) they more or less have similar options (B2, F4, B33, F33, etc.).
 

Psyren136

Apprentice
How much damage is that?

I'm not sure, I have a hard time getting the slide after 242, I'll these try tomorrow when I have access to my PS4
For the slide just wait until they are already knocked back across the screen and falling then input slide. You will catch them close to the ground. If you do it right after 242 then you will just slide under and get no hits.
 

14K

Warrior
ohhhh @SWonder916 ohhh my boy that tag down there, thats an old old thing you got there my friend LOL...

Anyway onto topic, that combo B2,B2 1,1 D1, B12 Clone ... is actually harder than it looks, specially online the timing is a lot more sensative than it seems from the vid... offline i doubt ppl will have a lot of trouble after a short practise round... but online those 1,1 into D1, B12 are tricky, very tricky...

EDIT: @Embestone can you confirm that combo is doing consistent 35% dmg? cause im doing it and its doing 36% while not very important its still 1% right right...

EDIT2: Never mind bro im an idiot... im doing B2B2, 11, D1, B12 Clone J1, Jf1, J4... thats where the extra 1% is coming from
 
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14K

Warrior
Sorry for the mutiple posts But i think i found a consistent 36% loopable that i think is a lot easier to poll even online than the one above, feel free to test it yourselfs.

B2B2, D1D1 B12 Clone, J1, Jf1 J4

Sorry i have no means of recording this but anyone that can and wants to share visual reference feel free to test and share a vid on this
 

PwnStar

Noob
Still think people need to be using the bj1, f12 ender, not the nj3 after nj1. If you're going to use nj3 you need to at least use it on the way down to get more frame advantage and prevent armor moves punishing you (or those stupid disjointed hitbox ones like Mileena's teleport kick).I generally test by setting an opponent SZ to wake up EX~slide.

So I'm doing the female correction with b3 to clone freeze...but they're too low to hit with nj1 (I hate SZ's nj1 hitbox...it's so sketchy). How do I fix that? EX: b2, b2, b3~clone, nj1, bj1, f12

I'm still really frustrated with Raiden's Superman move. I can't fuckin tell when he'll get frozen or when he'll connect after doing clone. the results are very inconsistent . If they were going to nerf clone, they should've at least made things consistent between moves that love to cheat through it. Also, anyone have issues fighting Devora with GM? This new nerf makes it like she doesn't even care about clones since she can now spam strings through it and not get frozen.
 

14K

Warrior
Still think people need to be using the bj1, f12 ender, not the nj3 after nj1. If you're going to use nj3 you need to at least use it on the way down to get more frame advantage and prevent armor moves punishing you (or those stupid disjointed hitbox ones like Mileena's teleport kick).I generally test by setting an opponent SZ to wake up EX~slide.

So I'm doing the female correction with b3 to clone freeze...but they're too low to hit with nj1 (I hate SZ's nj1 hitbox...it's so sketchy). How do I fix that? EX: b2, b2, b3~clone, nj1, bj1, f12

I'm still really frustrated with Raiden's Superman move. I can't fuckin tell when he'll get frozen or when he'll connect after doing clone. the results are very inconsistent . If they were going to nerf clone, they should've at least made things consistent between moves that love to cheat through it. Also, anyone have issues fighting Devora with GM? This new nerf makes it like she doesn't even care about clones since she can now spam strings through it and not get frozen.
On that Raiden issue, right after the patch hit, i did a set with a friend of mine, really good raiden, and i was mind blown by how inconsistent superman move is when it hits a clone... he even told me that he stopped burning meter on it during the set cause superman goes right pass clone not even carring that its there... i was really frustrated with that...

as for Dvorah, iv been playing her to make her close to my main lately, and let me tell you since i know both characters rather well, Dvorah gives no Sh...ts against GM Sub, she really doesnt, her D3 is godlike when she is stuck in the corner with a clone out because she can poke out and leave you in a range where you have a hard time punishing anything, let alone if she touches you, clone is gone... mid range she has that godlike F22 that she can cancel and get and easy mix up...
 

PwnStar

Noob
Yeah my friend plays her and prepatch it felt pretty even because I could drop clone poke or block, then I still had clone if she responded. It took away here ability to complete a string or do any forward moving attacks. Now she just doesn't care. I can only get her with it on a read jump or baiting an overly committed forward string. Corner game is so weak against her now. I'm trying Cryo/unbreakable as a counter pick option, and maybe it's just I was spoiled by how good prepatch SZ was, but it doesn't feel like those two do much better...they just feel so under powered in neutral, like they need another tool.
 

14K

Warrior
Yeah my friend plays her and prepatch it felt pretty even because I could drop clone poke or block, then I still had clone if she responded. It took away here ability to complete a string or do any forward moving attacks. Now she just doesn't care. I can only get her with it on a read jump or baiting an overly committed forward string. Corner game is so weak against her now. I'm trying Cryo/unbreakable as a counter pick option, and maybe it's just I was spoiled by how good prepatch SZ was, but it doesn't feel like those two do much better...they just feel so under powered in neutral, like they need another tool.
Well I started out playing as Cryo, and he is very meh for multiple reasons, atleast in my opinion, the Low High Mix up using Hammer not only has you consuming meter for combos ( Meter Subzero likes to have for def/ combo extender) that dont really do that much more dmg than GM, and ill be honest you will catch a lot of newbies with B33, Hammer or B3 Hammer, but a really good player will see that coming 10000 miles away, thats the expirience i had with Cryo since that mix up should be close to your main opener... As for Unbreakable, ill just ask this, how good is your eye? because you can catch a TON of stuff if you know exacly when to shield yourself for a freeze on the opponent, but you really need to get your study on, and learn where all the strings of each character have holes in them... as for stoping ranged game, its meh at best, requires a lot of effort on your part for very little pay off
 

PwnStar

Noob
Well I started out playing as Cryo, and he is very meh for multiple reasons, atleast in my opinion, the Low High Mix up using Hammer not only has you consuming meter for combos ( Meter Subzero likes to have for def/ combo extender) that dont really do that much more dmg than GM, and ill be honest you will catch a lot of newbies with B33, Hammer or B3 Hammer, but a really good player will see that coming 10000 miles away, thats the expirience i had with Cryo since that mix up should be close to your main opener... As for Unbreakable, ill just ask this, how good is your eye? because you can catch a TON of stuff if you know exacly when to shield yourself for a freeze on the opponent, but you really need to get your study on, and learn where all the strings of each character have holes in them... as for stoping ranged game, its meh at best, requires a lot of effort on your part for very little pay off
Kinda how I felt. Cryo's added mixups feel more like scrub kills leaving your only real benefit as better midscreen damage and the standing wake up (which is not as good as prepatch clone set ups). I feel like he needs more ice weapon attacks in neutral, like a better poke or mixup (Also wtf is 111 for???). Unbreakable just feels too risky for too little payoff. It just does too little damage and tries too compensate with risky counters that scale your damage even more harshly. Also not having EX-smash really sucks since it's high damage combos in corner and a better option for armor than slide in cases where you're not in the corner.

I have this dreaded feeling that SZ is just gonna have a few really harsh matchups now and he may have to become an alt that I pocket for characters that can't deal with clones still.
 

Creepy00

Kombatant
How much damage is that?

I'm not sure, I have a hard time getting the slide after 242, I'll these try tomorrow when I have access to my PS4
njp, fj2, run1, f42, slide does 21%

As soon you recover from 242, input slide. You recover faster than you opponent touching the floor after 242.
 

14K

Warrior
Kinda how I felt. Cryo's added mixups feel more like scrub kills leaving your only real benefit as better midscreen damage and the standing wake up (which is not as good as prepatch clone set ups). I feel like he needs more ice weapon attacks in neutral, like a better poke or mixup (Also wtf is 111 for???). Unbreakable just feels too risky for too little payoff. It just does too little damage and tries too compensate with risky counters that scale your damage even more harshly. Also not having EX-smash really sucks since it's high damage combos in corner and a better option for armor than slide in cases where you're not in the corner.

I have this dreaded feeling that SZ is just gonna have a few really harsh matchups now and he may have to become an alt that I pocket for characters that can't deal with clones still.
ill Be honest here, as characters figure out more and more ways to move in on their opponents, sub zeros very straight foward, high low options, will soon enouth fall short of being enouth to make Sub Zero any kinda of a threat to any of the more well rounded characters out there.

Honestly if i was to do something to sub zero that would make him more solid, but still very manegable over all variations, would be the following:
GM: clone Smash. i seriously see no reason why the furthest traveling particle of the explosion doesnt have a hit box, only the more bulky ones... seriously, this would give Sub Zero more spacial control, a decent chip option that still keeps him protected over a bigger range of the map and its seriously stupid that the smaller particules dont have hit boxes... it feels lazy from NRS

Another Special Move needs to be added and honestly i dont even go far in providing one that would make wonders for all variations on SubZero. His Very awesome and very famous Ice Puddle. how would this make subzero more well rounded and better without breaking him on all variations you ask? This is How:

Ice Puddle Mechanic, Low hitting special move, blockable,( not his unblockable counterpart from older MKs ) and let it be kinda safe on block providing the same animation on hit as previous MKs ( the one where they are sliding on the ice )

GM Improvements: it would give SZ an option to cancel strings from, that ends in a low, still easy enouth to read and block since subzero has no OverHead ender in GM and the only other option is the slide that is unsafe, it would give SZ a better spacial control over his opponent if he Clones and uses Ice Puddle to safely get a reaction from his opponent without having to put himself in risk and if it hit,. Free combo due to the stagger animation... ( scaling would be enouth for atleast a 25 % combo to 30% something in that range seems fair)

Cryo improvements : it would provide Cryo variation with the special ender mix up it so surely needs. If Cryo is supposed to be the offensive Variation. Where are the high low mind games it requires to trive on such close quarters to his opponent? ( surely they dont mean the mix up of Hammer and Slide is good enouth for a character that needs to be in the opponents face since he doesnt have a chip dmg ranged option, i mean 1 of those needs meter to combo, but its painfully slow, the other one is a KD with very little dmg and punishable on block) So Ice Puddle would sky rocket Cryo Sub Zero to a place where he would actually be viable..

Unbreakable Improvements : it would give this Variation with atleast a safe option and minimal chip on block, because honestly this variation seems like a punshing bag, its offence is so bad that it makes me sad inside... but with Ice puddle atleast he would have a low ender that would provide a combo without it having to spend meter on EX Ice ball almost 70% of the time...

This obviously is just a idea, but i think its a well thought out one and it does provide all variations with something they really need without breaking subzero into the stupid tier... Sorry for the long post guys
 

Iced_Taz

Characters loyalist :)
If you want combo that always hits in the corner (male characters) use:

B2, 242, 1, b12 clone, njp, jp2, b12 -36% (with jump punch 37%). You sacrafice 2% of damage but that combo is much easier than b2, b2, d1, b12

For clone setup (perfect distance for b33 or b2) end combo with forward throw (after njp). It takes 35% with throw.
 

Creepy00

Kombatant
Hmm, you could do b2, b2, d1,d1, b12 ice clone. The extra d1 puts the opponent right into the height for the iceclone to come out and does 1% more damage. Something like this:

B2,B2,D1,D1,B12~clone, Njp, jp2, f12 for 37% Basically the same string we having using but with a minor tweak. I should also mention this works across all characters, including female characters (for most of the times, also more reliable than b3, iceclone). Credit goes to @14K
 
Reactions: 14K