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General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

Sub-Zeros bed of spike fatality has mesh errors when you do it on D'vorah wearing her second costume. I play on Xbox One and also why isn't there any blood left on the spikes after he stomps them down? I know its not a big deal to some but its the finer details that bother me. All in all the fatality isn't bad its just that on some characters the spikes have mesh errors. Could NRS fix it or too late?
 
With today's patch a lot of frame data for Sub has changed. Also not sure if it was mentioned but F3,3 is safe entirely even though the frame data says it's -40 or something on block O_O. Tempest Lao's Cyclone reversal came after block which was funny :)
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
With today's patch a lot of frame data for Sub has changed. Also not sure if it was mentioned but F3,3 is safe entirely even though the frame data says it's -40 or something on block O_O. Tempest Lao's Cyclone reversal came after block which was funny :)
Say wut? What other frames have changed?
 
Many normals for example have additional -1 on block and some got startup raised from 6 to 8. I compared frame data after today's patch to info in Tom's threads. Many of his were off. So I suggest double checking it now.
 
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In EU on PS4 there was a patch upgrading the game to (IIRC!) 0,142-128 or something. Was late night EU CET so for the sake of curiosity I compared some frame date in-game to Tom's data for normals and so on and pretty much everything was off. Some more some less. Mostly on the negative side :p

I won't get into details now since I have no access to console @work xD
 
I play on the xbox one and the Xbox One pad isn't very good for fighting games...so the only option is to get the Titan One. With the Titan One you can use any controller you want! I use a PS 3 controller on the Xbox One and it works flawlessly.
 

Lokheit

Noob
So... was Sub-Zero nerfed already? Like, for real?

If anything I would've expected some stuff specifically on Grandmaster (which wasn't even needed as proven how punishable it is), but not on ALL of SZs variations. Cryomancer even needs to be buffed to be minimally competitive lol.
 

BATTLEBEAR

NJ Jobber
So... was Sub-Zero nerfed already? Like, for real?

If anything I would've expected some stuff specifically on Grandmaster (which wasn't even needed as proven how punishable it is), but not on ALL of SZs variations. Cryomancer even needs to be buffed to be minimally competitive lol.
Cryomancer is fine. Trust me. That variation is very viable in competition.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Many normals for example have additional -1 on block and some got startup raised from 6 to 8. I compared frame data after today's patch to info in Tom's threads. Many of his were off. So I suggest double checking it now.
Tom's threads were made before the frame data was changed.
So... was Sub-Zero nerfed already? Like, for real?

If anything I would've expected some stuff specifically on Grandmaster (which wasn't even needed as proven how punishable it is), but not on ALL of SZs variations. Cryomancer even needs to be buffed to be minimally competitive lol.
SMH.
 

Lokheit

Noob
Cryomancer is fine. Trust me. That variation is very viable in competition.
Well the post was more about the news on frame data getting nerfed overal and then I deviated to point how it was unnecesary and people were crying about just 1 of the variations anyway (and more a problem of "learn more cry less").

Anyway, I've been practicing a lot with Cryomancer, from the beginning I've been wanting to main it and to really find something that makes it stand out, but I'm having a hard time convincing myself (and I'm very willing to convince myself it's a viable variation). I'm seeing some tools here and there, but the sum of all of those tools doesn't seem to be enough. I'm slowly gravitating to Unbreakable, but I still want to main Cryomancer.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Well the post was more about the news on frame data getting nerfed overal and then I deviated to point how it was unnecesary and people were crying about just 1 of the variations anyway (and more a problem of "learn more cry less").

Anyway, I've been practicing a lot with Cryomancer, from the beginning I've been wanting to main it and to really find something that makes it stand out, but I'm having a hard time convincing myself (and I'm very willing to convince myself it's a viable variation). I'm seeing some tools here and there, but the sum of all of those tools doesn't seem to be enough. I'm slowly gravitating to Unbreakable, but I still want to main Cryomancer.
The kenshi and ermac and characters that don't care about clone or parry don't like cryoMancer. Trust me.
 
How do you guys approach the Takeda MU with Shirai Ryu? Ya practically gotta have a totally different mindset in this match compared to a decent amount of other matchups since you have to be very cautious about using Clones and Iceballs due to Air Spear plus staying outside of his whip moves lets him toss kunais for hardly any risk at all.
 
Hi!

Anyone know the max damage combos off of his overhead?

for no meter I have been using
b2 run b1,2 xx db1 - 25% (seems harder to do at when b2 hits at max range)
b2 run f4,2,13 - 23% (changes sides, hard knockdown)
b2, fb4 - 17% (easy mode, hard knockdown, dose not require stamina)

1 meter
b2 run, b1,2 xx ex.df2, jp, d2 - 30%

3 meter
b2 run b1,2 xx x ray - 47%

p.s I'm knew to this so sorry if the combo notations are a little wonky
 
Coming from a SF background i'm used to anti-airing the living shit out of people with fast anti-air normals or fast invincible attacks. In MKX i now play as Sub-Zero again like i did in MK9. I'm having immense trouble trying to anti-air in this game, atleast with Sub-Zero. His D+2 just plain SUCKS this combined with how good a lot of jumping attacks are make it way too risky to even try it. Others have mentioned it needs to be done from a crouching position, i guess because of the smaller hurtbox initially. In short i'll probably won't even bother using this move when someone jumps as it gets stuffed constantly on startup. I would have to be extremely on point if i want to AA with this. Spacing also plays a large part it seems, further away the easier it is.

DB+1(Enhanced) seems a more reliable option however it is still not nearly as satisfactory, it is really really slow, 14 frames startupand unsafe on block so i'm gambling on the fact that people are commiting to a string after the initial jumpin and the DB+1 catches that....which everyone does, for now. It does give a free juggle though which is nice but it costs meter. Not an option to use everytime someone jumps it seems.

D+4 has the same startup as his D+2 but this move makes his hurtbox so low it low profiles a lot of jumping attacks, except attacks with large hitboxes and downward angled attacks such as a lot of jumping 3 or 4 attacks. On hit it gives very nice + frames which allow you to press your offense or atleast get some breathing room. It also works often against crossup attempts. This seems like a more reliable option to me and Tom also does it constantly. He also does run into f42 afterwards which can't be interrupted.

Another option which i find pretty good is his Jump+3, it is 5 frames on startup and has a nice hitbox it seems and it is active for 13 frames, so no timing required. Doing it from a backward jump seems the safest way.
*Quick question, why is it sometimes when i try to do a jumping attack as fast as posible it won't come out? Does it have a large amound of grounded frames before the jump is initiated, and thus it doesn't accept the input? I actually have to wait slightly before pressing the button, extremely annoying.

Backdashing from a jump or crossup attempt is pretty legit, initial invincibility gets you out of the situation reliably. Pretty safe. Some strings will reach if they've inputted it though and then they're right back in your face, overall i like this option though.

I guess you can also do an X-Ray, it has armour and it's safe on block and it freezes opponent when holding it...

D+2 imho is the absolute worst option to use against jump attacks, it's atrocious. D+4 and neutral/backwards jump+3 seem to be the best options.
This is just from my experience of the short time playing this game and i'm still atrocious at it but slowly i'm trying to learn it.
Good spacing and usage of the clone makes jumping a lot more difficult for the opponent but i'm still getting used to the game...hopefully it'll click soon.
Slide is working fairly well for me
 
Coming from a SF background i'm used to anti-airing the living shit out of people with fast anti-air normals or fast invincible attacks. In MKX i now play as Sub-Zero again like i did in MK9. I'm having immense trouble trying to anti-air in this game, atleast with Sub-Zero. His D+2 just plain SUCKS this combined with how good a lot of jumping attacks are make it way too risky to even try it. Others have mentioned it needs to be done from a crouching position, i guess because of the smaller hurtbox initially. In short i'll probably won't even bother using this move when someone jumps as it gets stuffed constantly on startup. I would have to be extremely on point if i want to AA with this. Spacing also plays a large part it seems, further away the easier it is.

DB+1(Enhanced) seems a more reliable option however it is still not nearly as satisfactory, it is really really slow, 14 frames startupand unsafe on block so i'm gambling on the fact that people are commiting to a string after the initial jumpin and the DB+1 catches that....which everyone does, for now. It does give a free juggle though which is nice but it costs meter. Not an option to use everytime someone jumps it seems.

D+4 has the same startup as his D+2 but this move makes his hurtbox so low it low profiles a lot of jumping attacks, except attacks with large hitboxes and downward angled attacks such as a lot of jumping 3 or 4 attacks. On hit it gives very nice + frames which allow you to press your offense or atleast get some breathing room. It also works often against crossup attempts. This seems like a more reliable option to me and Tom also does it constantly. He also does run into f42 afterwards which can't be interrupted.

Another option which i find pretty good is his Jump+3, it is 5 frames on startup and has a nice hitbox it seems and it is active for 13 frames, so no timing required. Doing it from a backward jump seems the safest way.
*Quick question, why is it sometimes when i try to do a jumping attack as fast as posible it won't come out? Does it have a large amound of grounded frames before the jump is initiated, and thus it doesn't accept the input? I actually have to wait slightly before pressing the button, extremely annoying.

Backdashing from a jump or crossup attempt is pretty legit, initial invincibility gets you out of the situation reliably. Pretty safe. Some strings will reach if they've inputted it though and then they're right back in your face, overall i like this option though.

I guess you can also do an X-Ray, it has armour and it's safe on block and it freezes opponent when holding it...

D+2 imho is the absolute worst option to use against jump attacks, it's atrocious. D+4 and neutral/backwards jump+3 seem to be the best options.
This is just from my experience of the short time playing this game and i'm still atrocious at it but slowly i'm trying to learn it.
Good spacing and usage of the clone makes jumping a lot more difficult for the opponent but i'm still getting used to the game...hopefully it'll click soon.
Slide is working fairly well for me
 

Rebelo

Noob
Ok now that one of the best if not the best subzero didn't make it out of pools the godfather of subzero tom Brady. I hope people are smart enough to understand there all dumbasses for thinking subzero needs nefs that is all just really loving sub the way he is
 

Odoyle

Drops combos
Wow I see the nerf too. Sucks. :/


Edit: I think it happened for everyone, not just Sub. Wasn't Liu Kang's F1 5 frames? It say 6 now. Also Kun Jin's low is 3 frames and OH is 19 frames which is a frame higher than before.
 
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Wow I see the nerf too. Sucks. :/


Edit: I think it happened for everyone, not just Sub. Wasn't Liu Kang's F1 5 frames? It say 6 now. Also Kun Jin's low is 3 frames and OH is 19 frames which is a frame higher than before.
The frame data in game was wrong so... Was it a nerf or a fix to the frame data?