Guide Sub-Zero Frame Data

[Somberness]

How to understand this.
Execution (singular | cumulative)
1 - 16
1,1 - 18 | 36
1,3 - 17 | 35
1,3,B+4 - 21 | 64
1,3,F+4 - 17 | 60
2 - 9
2,1 - 18 | 34
2,1,2 - 24 | 67
2,1,4 - 19 | 62
2,2 - 10 | 26
2,2,2 - 14 | 48
2,2,4 - 19 | 53
3 - 18
3,F+4 - 17 | 43
4 - 21
D+1 - 7
D+2 - 13
D+3 - 7
D+4 - 8
B+1 - 12
B+1,2 - 24 | 44
B+1,2,1 - 31 | 82
B+1,2,4 - 37 | 88
B+2 - 42-59
B+4 - 16
F+4 - 24
F+4,1+2 - 15 | 52
Throw - 10
Iceball - 24
Iceball (full screen) - 52
Slide - 10
Ice Clone (startup) - 1
Ice Puddle - 56
Icebeam - 20
Icebeam (full screen) - 36
Power Slide - 10
Power Slide (full screen) - 31
Ice Statue (startup) - 1
Ground Freeze - 53
Ground Freeze (full screen) - 85
Deep Freeze - 9-249

Advantage (block | hit)
1 - 0 | 0
1,1 - 0 | +4
1,3 - -4 | +2
1,3,B+4 - -6 | +16, +13
1,3,F+4 - -8 | +41, +49
2 - -3 | +1
2,1 - 0 | +48, +36
2,1,2 - -11 | +40, +23
2,1,4 - -9 | +46, +29
2,2 - -6 | +4
2,2,2 - -37 | +31, +39
2,2,4 - -13 | +41, +49
3 - 0 | +3
3,F+4 - -8 | +41, +49
4 - -7 | -2
D+1 - -14 | -6
D+1 (vs crouch) - -14 | -8
D+2 - -1 | +34, +27
D+3 - -8 | +2
D+3 (vs crouch) - -8 | +9
D+4 - 0 | +8
D+4 (vs crouch) - 0 | +1
B+1 - -2 | +4
B+1,2 - 0 | +37
B+1,2,1 - -10 | +24
B+1,2,4 - 0 | +33, +23
B+2 - 0 | +12 (max hold +45, +69)
B+4 - -4 | +17, +14
F+4 - -13 | +1
F+4,1+2 - -41 | 0, -5
Forward Throw - N/A | +9
Backward Throw - N/A | +9
Iceball - -27 | +96
Iceball (full screen) - +1 | +125
Slide - -35 | +6
Slide (full screen) - -16 | +24
Ice Puddle - N/A | +111
Icebeam - -29 | +214
Power Slide - -35 | +32, +15
Power Slide (full screen) - -21 | +31, +14
Deep Freeze - -2 | 0

Duration (whiff | block | hit)
1 - 25 | 25 | 22
1,1 - 51 | 51 | 51
1,3 - 66 | 66 | 66
1,3,B+4 - 97 | 97 | 97
1,3,F+4 - 95 | 95 | 95
2 - 39 | 39 | 39
2,1 - 59 | 59 | 59
2,1,2 - 104 | 105 | 105
2,1,4 - 98 | 98 | 94
2,2 - 59 | 59 | 59
2,2,2 - 112 | 112 | 93
2,2,4 - 93 | 93 | 88
3 - 41 | 41 | 41
3,F+4 - 78 | 78 | 78
4 - 55 | 55 | 50
D+1 - 27 | 27 | 27
D+2 - 50 | 41 | 63
D+3 - 21 | 21 | 21
D+4 - 33 | 33 | 33
B+1 - 41 | 41 | 41
B+1,2 - 79 | 64 | 64
B+1,2,1 - N/A | 119 | 119
B+1,2,4 - N/A | 105 | 105
B+2 - 19-86 (69 no hold) | 69 | 69-86
B+4 - 48 | 48 | 48
F+4 - 64 | 64 | 64
F+4,1+2 - 120 | 120 | 114
Forward Throw - 36 | N/A | 201
Backward Throw - 36 | N/A | 194
Iceball - 71 | 71 | 71
Slide - 82 | 72 | 72
Ice Clone (grounded) - ~38 | N/A | N/A
Ice Puddle - 89 | N/A | 89
Icebeam - 81 | 76 | 76
Power Slide - 78 | 72 | 86
Ice Statue (grounded) - ~38 | N/A | N/A
Ground Freeze - 116 | N/A | 116
Deep Freeze - 9-288 (50 no hold) | 38 | 445

Cancel Advantage (block | hit)
1 - +25 | +32
1,1 - +19 | +11
1,3 - +19 | +25
2 - +20 | +24
2,1 - +18 | +64, +52
2,1,2 - +28 | +79, +62
2,1,4 - +20 | +71, +54
2,2 - +19 | +29
2,2,4 - +20 | +69, +52
3 - +19 | +18
D+1 - +1 | +9
D+1 (vs crouch) - +1 | +7
D+3 - +2 | +12
D+3 (vs crouch) - +2 | +19
D+4 - +22 | +28
D+4 (vs crouch) - +22 | +21
B+1 - +19 | +25
B+1,2 - +20 | +50
B+1,2,1 - +18 | +52
F+4 - +14 | +28

Miscellaneous
Breaker (when grounded vs grounded opponent) - ~+13, ~+12
Iceball - airborne opponent is frozen for 99 frames, 74 frames when close to the ground
Icebeam - airborne opponent is frozen for 115 frames
Ice Clone - 149 active frames
Ice Statue - 239 active frames
Power Slide - armor on frames 2-23
Deep Freeze - invincibility on frames 1-2, armor on frames 3-32
1,3,B+4 - 2 frame gap
2,1,2 - 6 frame gap
2,1,4 - 1 frame gap
B+1,2 - 5 frame gap
B+1,2,1 - 11 frame gap
B+1,2,4 - 17 frame gap
F+4,1+2 - 1 frame gap

 

[xenogorgeous]

Nice job, great work, well done !! Your characters frame data threads = 5 stars top notch !!

 

[OnizukaPM]

GREAT JOB, thx

 

[Dark_Rob]

Excellent work Somberness! I will sticky this thread.

 

[Seapeople]

Great stuff! My brain must not be working today - what is deep freeze and how can it be cancelled?

Does cancel adv on block mean canceling the string into a special like the ice clone?

 

[Jim]

Great stuff! My brain must not be working today - what is deep freeze and how can it be cancelled?

Does cancel adv on block mean canceling the string into a special like the ice clone?

Deep Freeze is the xray.

 

[Lord Beef]

Yes! Somberness, you rule.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[Gilbagz]

Whoa 2,1 and 2,2 both last for 59 frames? On whiff, 2,1 feels like it recovers so much faster.

Anyways awesome job Somberness.

 

[Somberness]

Great stuff! My brain must not be working today - what is deep freeze and how can it be cancelled?

Does cancel adv on block mean canceling the string into a special like the ice clone?

Yes, to get the advantage when cancelling into ice clone, you would subtract the ice clone duration from the cancel advantage. (ignoring if the string puts Sub in the air to increase/decrease the recovery by a frame or two). So 212~ice clone is -9 and d1~ice clone is -36.

 

[Pagan]

If I'm reading this right, it looks like he's got a fairly big gap after the 3rd in in all his bnb chains but having an 8 frame d4 though helps a lot yikes

 

[Seapeople]

Yes, to get the advantage when cancelling into ice clone, you would subtract the ice clone duration from the cancel advantage. (ignoring if the string puts Sub in the air to increase/decrease the recovery by a frame or two). So 212~ice clone is -9 and d1~ice clone is -36.

Wow, it looks like Sub can be interrupted by a lot of stuff.
Kenshi's spirit charge looks fast enough to punish 212~clone
Kenshi's RK, Ermac's TKS and Ermac's TKP look fast enough to punish every other ice clone string.
Freddy's hellspikes looks fast enough to punish them all except 212 or d4~clone.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Wow, it looks like Sub can be interrupted by a lot of stuff.
Kenshi's spirit charge looks fast enough to punish 212~clone
Kenshi's RK, Ermac's TKS and Ermac's TKP look fast enough to punish every other ice clone string.
Freddy's hellspikes looks fast enough to punish them all except 212 or d4~clone.

Thats why you HC.... you shouldn't be using the full strings against those guys anyhow.
I'm glad that b1,2 is 0 on block. I think that changes his standard JiP to b1,2 as well then go into 2,1 and 2,2 or d4. Slowly evolving.

 

[Playpal]

Somberness I highly doubt uncharged B2 is neutral on block.

 

[Somberness]

Somberness I highly doubt uncharged B2 is neutral on block.

How so?

 

[Playpal]

How so?

I've tested it myself and it appears to be disadvantage. Normally I wouldn't argue because if you post that something is neutral, I can test it myself and see that you're right. However, I tested the advantage of B2 a while ago (and just now) and it's disadvantage. I used the crouch method since the jump method is hard for the naked eye.

 

[Somberness]

A B2 that hits on the 42nd frame (just tapping it) gets 0 every time for me. If it is 0, it should be easy to see doing a jump because the characters would be unison.

 

[Playpal]

Somberness I'm still not convinced. My tests consistently show that B2 is disadvantage when both players crouch immediately. It's possible the advantage is different.

 

[Somberness]

When blocking B2, the character starts lowering 1 frame before they actually recover, any attack read on the frame is not recognized. That character also enters the lowest crouch position faster for whatever reason, I guess it is an animation feature.

 

[M_TRICKZz]

So Sub has no advantage at all on block, *chicken nuggets*

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

being neutral isn't bad. Especially with how fast d4 is and the advantage on hit he gets from it.

 

[M_TRICKZz]

I can see the advantage, you can say:

21: They jump at you, clone hits, They respect it d4 hits, But I've noticed if the opponent d1's after your gonna get hit so IDK hmmmm

 

[salvificblood]

I've been playing around a lot with 214 setups in practise and given that 214 is only negative 9 on block, (same as Smoke's smoke bomb which is considered fairly safe), and with fairly decent pushback but certainly not as much as 212, clone, 224, clone, etc, do you not think Sub could use 214 against the likes of Kitana in order to maintain favourable spacing while not really being punishable? Clearly, you wouldn't do this against a character like Reptile, however, 214 seems to keep Sub at an optimal footsies range and would make cancelling into the clone an "interesting" option again rather than the default, go-to option on block.

 

[ryublaze]

Somberness: How much is Ice Clone on block? I know it's probably not that useful information but it can possibly help in one of his corner setups. Thanks.

 

[Seapeople]

Somberness: How much is Ice Clone on block? I know it's probably not that useful information but it can possibly help in one of his corner setups. Thanks.

Take the cancel advantage for any string minus the ice clone's 37 frame duration.
For example d4 is +22 cancel adv on block minus 37 from the ice clone = -15
Hope that helps.

 

[ryublaze]

Take the cancel advantage for any string minus the ice clone's 37 frame duration.
For example d4 is +22 cancel adv on block minus 37 from the ice clone = -15
Hope that helps.

I think that gives the advantage if the D4 is blocked. but I mean if the opponent just walks up and blocks the Ice Clone he is at some kind of disadvantage. I know that if you push the opponent into a clone while he is blocking you get a free throw attempt. Walking up and blocking Ice Clone is the main flaw in the D4 Ice Clone setup.