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Guide Sub-Zero Frame Data

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Hey from the frame data
2,2,4 clone is punishable
Obviously not by full combo, but everyone with a fast projectile
2,2,4 has a cancel advantage of +20
The ice clone has a duration of 37 frames
That leaves you at -17 correct.
I was looking through the other character frame data, and some characters for sure can punish this right with a fast projectile or at least check you?
This is all theory right now, and I haven't tested anything properly yet.
Coloured = Uncertain due to push back of clone and distance projectile has to travel
Ermac
Force Lift - 13
Force Push - 14
Kenshi
Spirit Charge - 8 Frames
Sub Zero
Ex Slide - >10 Frames
Xray - >9 Frames
Freddy
Hellspike - 16 Frames
Noob
Tackle - >11 Frames
Slide - >14 Frames
Scorpion
Hellfire - 22 Frames [Can jump I think, don't know how long it takes to jump. Perhaps ex hellfire would catch you if you jump]
Spear - >13 Frames
[I think you would have to jump immediately to dodge the hellfire, but this opens up a mind game on whether or Scorpion is going to spear or hellfire. If you jump you get caught by the spear, if you don't you eat the hellfire. Probably isn't anything, but was just a thought for the Scorpion-Sub-Zero match up.]
Quan Chi
Ex-Rune - 21 Frames [Idk if you can jump in time]
Sektor
iaTpu - Minimum 16 Frames
Kabal
Gas Blast (air) - 6 (9 frames to hit up close)
Ex Dash - >13 Frames
Kitana
iaF - >13 Frames

Anyways these are just a few characters, but i'm sure there are others who can punish Sub for doing a 2,2,4 into clone. All of this is currently all theory and i know a lot of this isn't practical since it requries just frame execution for some characters but alot of characters can force Sub to move after a 2,2,4 clone (e.g. Scorpion and Quan Chi) or force him to stand there and block because they can at minimum check him with a projectile. I guess this can open up the mind game to whether or not you clone, but even 2,2,4 on block is -13, so even they do hesistate in anticipation of the clone, they will still be able to check you with a projectile since you'll then be at about -8[Based on how fast they react]. Only people who get greedy and try to dash in and pressure after a naked 2,2,4 will eat the delayed clone off of 2,2,4. The point of this is, is 2,2,4 clone really that safe? They can check you every time after with a projectile whether you clone or not, and once you respect this, they can dash in after you 2,2,4 to pressure you.

I know none if this is new, but its been bugging the hell out me cuz i've been eating spears and hellfires after 2,2,4's into clone. I've been trying to think of mix ups of 2,2,4. Like 2 then 2,2,4 clone, or 2,2, 2,2,4 clone or just 2,2,4 *wait clone. Been working out alright, but I was trying to think of ways to shut down my own mix ups. I know you would need lightning reactions to pull off a lot of this stuff, but im trying to cover every option that can screw up 2,2,4 mix ups.

Also: I can't remember if the 2,2,4 clone puts Sub at jump distance or not, so going to have to test this later properly.
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
I don't think Kabal's ex Dash will go through the clone
Yeah you're right, the push back is great enough that the armour on the dash wears off by the time contact is made.
Because of this most projectiles can be blocked in time.
So people who can punish it are those with super fast advancing specials with armour (so no one I think lol)
And instant hitting projectiles like Ermac and Kenshi TK stuff

Anyways disregard my entire post, I was completely wrong on most of it.
The only thing you can get out of it is Scorpion opens up another 50-50 I think.
From blocking it, they have to jump immediately to avoid the hellfire I think. If they hesistate for a second they will eat the hellfire. But if they jump immediately, the spear will hit I think. Need to do more testing, currently using rubber bands on the damn controllers to test shit.
Might not be much cuz most people will just eat the hellfire and not think twice, but might give scorpion some more options in this match up.
 

GGA soonk

ĜĞÅ §ººñ|<®©™
Premium Supporter
Raiden, Reptile, Cage, maybe Jax(idk frames on his ex dash punch) should be able to punish, along with Kenshi and Ermac. There might be more, just off the top of my head.
 

THTB

When's Syzoth?
Raiden, Reptile, Cage, maybe Jax(idk frames on his ex dash punch) should be able to punish, along with Kenshi and Ermac. There might be more, just off the top of my head.
Reptile is basically looking at a frame-perfect punish here, that does shit all lol.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Reptile is basically looking at a frame-perfect punish here, that does shit all lol.
this. Its different if he did an exSlide to get out of the corner.... where basically he is GOING to get out. But to risk being hit with the final hit AND eating a slide/freeze? yeah. Most characters are this way (that don't have a 6frame d1).

I still think SZ's d1 should keep its shitty hit/block advantage and be 6 frames. c'mon now.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
7 frame pokes can definitely interrupt 212 as player 1. I guess it has something to do with the character's hitbox being lower while they poke. Watch this video at 2:50 (really entertaining matches btw).
 

Eh SnOwY

PC FGC
7 frame pokes can definitely interrupt 212 as player 1. I guess it has something to do with the character's hitbox being lower while they poke. Watch this video at 2:50 (really entertaining matches btw).
Dat corner trap at the end :O Noway out
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
So Krys9984 and I are doing a video for Jade on when to EN Glow during block strings. What strings for Subzero do you know FOR SURE have gaps? Somberness
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
So Krys9984 and I are doing a video for Jade on when to EN Glow during block strings. What strings for Subzero do you know FOR SURE have gaps? Somberness
Pretty sure 224 doesn't. 214 has a 1 frame gap which is only big enough to be interrupted by X-ray, not armor.
b12 also has a 5 frame gap.
I think Chaosphere made frame gap threads for every character a long time ago
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
Premium Supporter
Pretty sure 224 doesn't. 214 has a 2 frame gap which is only big enough to be interrupted by X-ray, not armor.
b12 also has a 6 frame gap.
I think Chaosphere made frame gap threads for every character a long time ago
I believe b12 can be interrupted between both hits of the string, yes? Technically all 3 if you do b121, but the last is big enough to jump out of so...yeah lol. That's my contribution to this project. :D

RunwayMafia
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
214 has a 2 frame gap which is only big enough to be interrupted by X-ray, not armor.
You mean 212, right? 214 should not be interruptable by anything. I've had GGA Dizzy try to X-Ray me with Cage out of my 214, in the past, and he always ended up taking a foot to the face.

And he would always yell, "MY FACE! MY BEAUTIFUL FACE!" (may or may not be a dramatic re-enactment)