Guide Sub-Zero Frame Data

[ryublaze]

RunwayMafia I think it would be easier on your part by looking at the frame data to see which moves are interruptable and which aren't.

Sub-Zero's 214 has 19 frames of execution. Look at 21's cancel advantage on block and it is +18 so your opponent only has a 1 frame window between the 21 and 4 so it shouldn't be interruptable. I remember Tom Brady talking about 214 and people who try to armor out will get the meter drain glitch or something or they just get hit by the 4. Also armor moves have armor starting on the 2nd frame so any 2 frame gap can be armored out of IIRC.

21*gap*2 can be armored out of, and can only be poked out of with a 6 frame move by player 1.

224 is 19 frame execution and 22 has +19 cancel advantage on block so it's not interruptable.

B12 is 24 frame execution and B1 has +19 cancel advantage on block so it can be armored out of.

You would do this with all his strings to see which are interruptable and which aren't but it's time consuming.

 

[Seapeople]

You mean 212, right? 214 should not be interruptable by anything. I've had GGA Dizzy try to X-Ray me with Cage out of my 214, in the past, and he always ended up taking a foot to the face.

And he would always yell, "MY FACE! MY BEAUTIFUL FACE!" (may or may not be a dramatic re-enactment)

Haha. No it's X-rayable because x-rays don't suffer the meter drain glitch & there's a 1 frame gap.
I've done it several times in practice just to confirm, but never tried it in a real match.

 

[RunwayMafia]

RunwayMafia I think it would be easier on your part by looking at the frame data to see which moves are interruptable and which aren't.

Sub-Zero's 214 has 19 frames of execution. Look at 21's cancel advantage on block and it is +18 so your opponent only has a 1 frame window between the 21 and 4 so it shouldn't be interruptable. I remember Tom Brady talking about 214 and people who try to armor out will get the meter drain glitch or something or they just get hit by the 4. Also armor moves have armor starting on the 2nd frame so any 2 frame gap can be armored out of IIRC.

21*gap*2 can be armored out of, and can only be poked out of with a 6 frame move by player 1.

224 is 19 frame execution and 22 has +19 cancel advantage on block so it's not interruptable.

B12 is 24 frame execution and B1 has +19 cancel advantage on block so it can be armored out of.

You would do this with all his strings to see which are interruptable and which aren't but it's time consuming.

Thank you, honey boo boo child! Yeah, I'm using that formula for everyone...I feel like I'm going slightly mad (crazy) researching all of this....but it will be worth it!

 

[Seapeople]

I just noticed 13f4 & 3f4 give Sub Zero even more advantage on hit than 222...maybe these could lead to higher damaging combos. I'll have to mess with it.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

RunwayMafia

B12 is 24 frame execution and B1 has +19 cancel advantage on block so it can be armored out of.

Actually, it's +20 cancel advantage on block... but I had no idea that this is how you determine that! Thanks, gonna try to find gaps for a lot of characters now! XD

 

[Seapeople]

So since we found out fairly recently that enhanced specials have an extra 9 frames of invincibility... ex clone might finally have a use?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I just noticed 13f4 & 3f4 give Sub Zero even more advantage on hit than 222...maybe these could lead to higher damaging combos. I'll have to mess with it.

I don't htink he can move as fast.
This is the only time I do a naked b2 off a splat.... the input for a wakeup attack is awkward an usually comes out as wakeup block get shit on by unblockable.

 

[Lord Beef]

Ok, how do I find out how negative I am off d1~clone?

D1 cancel adv on hit +9
clone start up 1f
Clone recovery.36f?
So..... -28?

STB CharlieMurphy

HALLLP

 

[Seapeople]

Ok, how do I find out how negative I am off d1~clone?

D1 cancel adv on hit +9
clone start up 1f
Clone recovery.36f?
So..... -28?

STB CharlieMurphy

HALLLP

Yep d1~clone on hit is -28 (-30 vs crouch). d1~clone on block is -36
You don't have to use start up frame data. The duration frame data for the clone (37 frames) already factors that in.

 

[Lord Beef]

Yep d1~clone on hit is -28 (-30 vs crouch). d1~clone on block is -36
You don't have to use start up frame data. The duration frame data for the clone (37 frames) already factors that in.

Thx! Been using it to get out of pressure lately to some success. As a one off type of thing. Mainly against characters with block string normals that advance them(raiden for example) your thoughts?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Thx! Been using it to get out of pressure lately to some success. As a one off type of thing. Mainly against characters with block string normals that advance them(raiden for example) your thoughts?

this is how you make JC rage.
because d1 sucks on hit... usually f3 comes out anyway... and they go right into a tasty clone. I do it to Jax as well.... fucker kicks the cloen like a goober.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

D1 is ass, how does the clone not break?

 

[Chongo]

this is how you make JC rage.
because d1 sucks on hit... usually f3 comes out anyway... and they go right into a tasty clone. I do it to Jax as well.... fucker kicks the cloen like a goober.

You get a like for using the word "goober"

 

[Lord Beef]

this is how you make JC rage.
because d1 sucks on hit... usually f3 comes out anyway... and they go right into a tasty clone. I do it to Jax as well.... fucker kicks the cloen like a goober.

Right?! God it's awesome. I use it in those matches as well

 

[Lord Beef]

D1 is ass, how does the clone not break?

It has this weird slight push back that lets it come out. D1clone is hella legit vs rush down

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

It has this weird slight push back that lets it come out. D1clone is hella legit vs rush down

give me an example?

like when do you do d1 clone?

 

[Lord Beef]

give me an example?

like when do you do d1 clone?

if I read a raiden is gonna do b3 on block then grab. Basically any time I feel like they're going to stagger a string then go for something right after. Jc f3, jax f41 etc. Tinkering with it in kabal pressure but I'm not comfortable with it yet. Thing is is it happens so fast and you're so close, it really throws people off.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

if I read a raiden is gonna do b3 on block then grab. Basically any time I feel like they're going to stagger a string then go for something right after. Jc f3, jax f41 etc. Tinkering with it in kabal pressure but I'm not comfortable with it yet. Thing is is it happens so fast and you're so close, it really throws people off.

no reason to use it against Kabal
just find a dash cancel and 2,2 freeze.

 

[Seapeople]

I think I just had a frame data epiphany!
Block Stun = Duration - (Startup - Block Advantage)

Startup would be the execution frame data minus 1. So take ice blast for example...it has 8 frames of block stun which means that if you throw an ice blast from full screen and it gets blocked, you should be +8. Knowing this kind of thing could make zoning a lot more in depth.
Somberness could you confirm?

 

[Somberness]

Seapeople, it's +1 on block from absolute full screen, all tests done against Sub. It has 21 frames of block stun, you could figure that out if you took the duration of the move and subtracted the time it takes for the move to hit full screen. It should say 51 instead of 52, at least against Sub. I am going to update him with new info soon.

 

[Seapeople]

Seapeople, it's +1 on block from absolute full screen, all tests done against Sub. It has 21 frames of block stun, you could figure that out if you took the duration of the move and subtracted the time it takes for the move to hit full screen. It should say 51 instead of 52, at least against Sub. I am going to update him with new info soon.

Ok I think I see what I did wrong. I used the startup data for ice blast from full screen rather than point blank to find the block stun. So to find the block advantage of a projectile from full screen, would this be how you do it?

Full screen execution - (point blank execution - block advantage) = Block advantage from full screen
In the case of ice blast, that would be 51 - (23 - -27) = +1

 

[Somberness]

Ok I think I see what I did wrong. I used the startup data for ice blast from full screen rather than point blank to find the block stun. So to find the block advantage of a projectile from full screen, would this be how you do it?

Full screen execution - (point blank execution - block advantage) = Block advantage from full screen
In the case of ice blast, that would be 51 - (23 - -27) = +1

Yeah.

 

[Somberness]

- standing 4 - execution changed to 21. This move has a terrible hitbox so it's likely not going to hit on that frame against every character. Also changed the hit and block values to match if it hits on that frame. The last point is hilariously bad. Adjusted the duration frame to 55 (whiff) as the move does instantly start up like every other move in the game. It takes 3 frames for your input to register, that's also why the execution was so high at 27, it fooled me good.
- iceball - execution changed to 24. There's no reference for this move other than looking at the animation of the opponent. To make sure, I had to press block exactly 24 frames after it was used to see if I was frozen or not.
- icebeam - execution changed to 20. This was easier, I knew it wasn't 19 because b1~icebeam does not jail on block. And before anyone asks, the move is always -29 and +214 so I didn't include the full screen advantage numbers.
- down 4 - changed duration to 33.
- 2,1,4 - added hit cancel advantage.
- added other new info. Here's the deal with his x-ray. I think it could be impossible to get a 9 frame x-ray from neutral. The best I can do is 10, quickly pressing the button might count as holding it for 1 frame, so any lower just won't happen. I know it is 9 frames because cancelling it from a normal gives you the time to release the button so it doesn't charge and you get the fastest possible. I kept 9 in the diagram for what it's worth. Also, there is no armor when charging (but you do get it after) and the armor values assume it was a "9 frame" x-ray. I learned that there is no invincibility, maybe for any x-ray attack, when you cancel out of a normal. However, I am just going to ignore that for simplicity's sake. It was hard to display slide's execution in a picture, as it slows down quite a bit. Enhanced is similar, just that it moves a bit faster and doesn't change speed.

 

[Durango]

This looks quite important. Normally I just go by experience, find what works, and remember the recovery times on everyone's movesets. When facing a solid opponent, I joke often, "wow, this guy must've studied the frame charts. Geez." But now I see how important it is.

Given as far as I've gotten in MK9, however, I don't know what to do from here. I've either read attacks as simply "safe on block" or not, and which comes out the fastest.

 

[Eddy Wang]

This looks quite important. Normally I just go by experience, find what works, and remember the recovery times on everyone's movesets. When facing a solid opponent, I joke often, "wow, this guy must've studied the frame charts. Geez." But now I see how important it is.

Given as far as I've gotten in MK9, however, I don't know what to do from here. I've either read attacks as simply "safe on block" or not, and which comes out the fastest.

learn Cancel advantage, so you will find out which strings are interruptibles as well.

which has way less disadvantage on block to setup frame traps, and which one has good hit advantage to give you an edge to start pressure and more frame traps.