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Guide Sub VS Reptile

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I was actually contemplating making a thread on this match-up, but I see it's been done already.

So anyway, this is actually one of my favorite match-ups to play. I don't main Sub-Zero, but I have dabbled in him a ton and I tended to have success dealing with Reptile players...however, as of late I've come to see how this match can favor Reptile.

Sub-Zero's not the kind of character that can zone Reptile. He can duck the Acid Spit, but the idea of jumping the Force Balls can get shut down quickly as Reptile can alternate between two speeds when throwing them. And unlike Sub-Zero's Ice Ball, Reptile can chip at his life from a distance. The Ice Clone won't help Sub to advance upon his opponent due to the nature of Reptile's zoning. Trading is out of the question, as a Force Ball will juggle Sub-Zero on hit...long enough so that even if Reptile is frozen, Sub won't be able to regain his footing quick enough to come in and do b1 2 1. Sometimes he can get in an Ice Slide before Reptile recovers, and sometimes that will get blown up by a full combo on crouch-block. Too much of a gamble there.

As you pointed out yourself, the main goal of this fight is to corner Reptile and fucking rape him there, all while watching for his EX Elbow Dash (which can be interrupted in the middle) or EX Acid Slide (armored and hits low). You can't hope to win at midscreen unless the Reptile is atrocious at trading and keeping you out. Knockdowns will give Sub-Zero an advantage as I don't find Reptile's Wake-Ups to be all that viable.

Get caught in a combo, you've lost about 35% - 40% of your life and will be facing a Force Ball set-up, then you'll have to go in again. I don't see Sub-Zero getting much meter in this match-up aside from sustaining damage, but if he does have some on hand you can force Reptile to respect EX Freeze even at full-screen. Should a Force Ball hit you during such a trade, you'll still have time to approach and land your b1 2 1 to start up pressure. When putting on the pressure, be wary of the Elbow Dash; at six frames, if you do 2 1, pause, and attempt to follow with more attacks, Reptile can read this and stop you with the dash...unless it can be stuffed with a d3? I have thought about this at some point, but never got to test it.

Again, don't clone just to clone. Even with a life lead, Reptile will find a way to catch up from a distance. Stay on top of him. Save the clones for the corner.

That's pretty much how I see the match-up. It may still be 5-5 like I initially thought it was, but I'm not sure on this. I might have been succeeding in this match-up because a lot of Reptiles I play are in a hurry to trade rather than watch and read what I will do. Whenever I play smarter Reptiles, the challenge really picks up.

Qwark28
heres the zoning mini chart

slow fball trades in subs favour if theyre both done at the same time therefore its discouraged to use it

fast fball is even, you can get a slide in from 3/4 knockdown distance and below, it can be jumped and if you dont take the slide hoping to get a blockstring youll get dashed but that can be baited

spit checks iceball that checks slow fball

2 out of 3 of reptiles tools can be jiped for full combo if timed right, from a distance its only the slow ball

clone midscreen gives you

immunity to all versions of dash

dash up and free pressure from a block iceball which is -26/29 if i remember right and dash lasts for about 21 frames

with decimals imo its 5,5 in reps favour after some thought, its only natural that when youre dealing with 3 projectiles when you only have 1 and a portable wall you have to read a lil bit better
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
heres the zoning mini chart

slow fball trades in subs favour if theyre both done at the same time therefore its discouraged to use it

fast fball is even, you can get a slide in from 3/4 knockdown distance and below, it can be jumped and if you dont take the slide hoping to get a blockstring youll get dashed but that can be baited

spit checks iceball that checks slow fball

2 out of 3 of reptiles tools can be jiped for full combo if timed right, from a distance its only the slow ball

clone midscreen gives you

immunity to all versions of dash

dash up and free pressure from a block iceball which is -26/29 if i remember right and dash lasts for about 21 frames

with decimals imo its 5,5 in reps favour after some thought, its only natural that when youre dealing with 3 projectiles when you only have 1 and a portable wall you have to read a lil bit better
Agreed, but what reason would Reptile have to dash in on you from a distance? I can see it punishing the Ice Ball on block at midscreen distance and the EX Freeze, but...
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Agreed, but what reason would Reptile have to dash in on you from a distance? I can see it punishing the Ice Ball on block at midscreen distance and the EX Freeze, but...
read on an iceball, jump, punish

punishing an iceball on block with a blockstring from a whiffed dash while he's still + and you cant get the clone out due to proximity

slow fball on block from dash whiff distance is a frametrap

id throw out the clone when i could just because of reptile has loads of side changing shit
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
lol at cloning midscreen.... only clone to keep yourself safe after a string.
Once you understand FB setups... you can start to toss ice blast in a more educated manor.

Ice blast is the key to this matchup. This is how you build meter (without taking damage) and force reptile to do something different.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
lol at cloning midscreen.... only clone to keep yourself safe after a string.
Once you understand FB setups... you can start to toss ice blast in a more educated manor.

Ice blast is the key to this matchup. This is how you build meter (without taking damage) and force reptile to do something different.
what makes you think the midscreen clone doesn't come from strings?
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
I find this match to be 5-5 or maybe 6-4 in Sub-Zero's favor. It can go either way, but it's very rare to find a unpredictable Reptile when one of my best friends plays that character.

The matchup is 5-5 imo.

Reptile wins the zoning battle but EX Freeze/EX Slide if used at the right time can stop him. Ice Clone fucks up the elbow dash and Sub's corner game destroys Reptile.
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The key against Reptile is to maintain short distance from him. If you can do that, half of the way to beat Reptile is already done. Spacing is very, very important in this match. EX Ice Blast is very good against his spit and force balls, but even the normal version of this move is dangerous to him if you're at medium/close range and you can predict him shooting a projectile.
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
I have to give my opinion that it's 6-4 in Reptiles favor, close 5/5.

High level Reptiles just have too many forceball setups and dash shenanigans to call it definitively even.
Which he won't be using as much if you're at close range. And if he do, it's going to be a EX Force Ball, so be careful.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I find this match to be 5-5 or maybe 6-4 in Sub-Zero's favor. It can go either way, but it's very rare to find a unpredictable Reptile when one of my best friends plays that character.



.

The key against Reptile is to maintain short distance from him. If you can do that, half of the way to beat Reptile is already done. Spacing is very, very important in this match. EX Ice Blast is very good against his spit and force balls, but even the normal version of this move is dangerous to him if you're at medium/close range and you can predict him shooting a projectile.
dont confuse familiarity with matchups, the terry brothers do it often.
 

Bruke

Wut
I always thought this was 6-4 in Sub's favor, I rarely get a good reptile that will mix things up.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
If anyone wants to play this MU on PSN, I would be very happy to play you then give advice after. Idk if I will be able to make it but I'm trying to be at FR at the end of the month, and I will definitely be at Civil War next month. So you guys can definitely find me there too. This is one of the most fun MU's in the game imo, both players really have to think to win.