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Guide Sub VS Reptile

Odoyle

Odoyle

Drops combos
I only have online as a judge so it's not really all too reliable but I feel like it's 5-5 when I play Cossner

Cossner I'm the Sub you play with that 2500-300 record you've played in ranked a ton of times since the game's came out if you don't know who I am. :p
 
Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
SubZeroMonster said:
I only have online as a judge so it's not really all too reliable but I feel like it's 5-5 when I play Cossner

Cossner I'm the Sub you play with that 2500-300 record you've played in ranked a ton of times since the game's came out if you don't know who I am. :p
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Yeah it's a fair MU.
Reptile has zoning, subby has clone and corner.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
STB CharlieMurphy said:
no reason to take 30... when you can take more and make him scarred to throw out FB's when you have a bar.

I play this without breaking as much as a I can. Simply because I typically only get hit by a FB combo... which is only 30%.
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except thats on a read and even then you use up a bar while he uses nothing and gets meter, id never break a combo like that, save it for le corner
 
Gesture Required Ahead

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Honestly I'm confused about this match-up. You guys say that Reptile out-zones Sub yet Sub wins all trades besides a late reaction to Spit and EN Slow Forceball.

En Slide is very baitable by using Ice Clone.

Reptile DIES in the corner.

1f Clone > 6f Dash and Clone doesn't disappear after first hit of Dash.

Considering these, it looks like Sub wins the match.yet it's seen as 6-4 Reptile.Someone educate me please.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Zer0 Hundr3d said:
Honestly I'm confused about this match-up. You guys say that Reptile out-zones Sub yet Sub wins all trades besides a late reaction to Spit and EN Slow Forceball.

En Slide is very baitable by using Ice Clone.

Reptile DIES in the corner.

1f Clone > 6f Dash and Clone doesn't disappear after first hit of Dash.

Considering these, it looks like Sub wins the match.yet it's seen as 6-4 Reptile.Someone educate me please.
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The only time SZ wins the trade 100% is if he is super close on a FB trade... or if he uses exFreeze. Most of the match is played at like 3/4ths screen where SZ can only get a slide. Hence why I use exFreeze anytime I can.
It is more or less a 5-5 when you get right down to it. Reptile does have a good d4 that leads to a safe move in AH, so he can always keep his spacing. He also has a legit way out of the corner that SZ really can't do a whole lot about.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Zer0 Hundr3d said:
Honestly I'm confused about this match-up. You guys say that Reptile out-zones Sub yet Sub wins all trades besides a late reaction to Spit and EN Slow Forceball.

En Slide is very baitable by using Ice Clone.

Reptile DIES in the corner.

1f Clone > 6f Dash and Clone doesn't disappear after first hit of Dash.

Considering these, it looks like Sub wins the match.yet it's seen as 6-4 Reptile.Someone educate me please.
Click to expand...
i thought it was fairly obvious that you cant trade well with forceballs unless its very close

if reptile gets a forceball out he can start his game

maybe you should read my whole explanation and not just say i cant use dash, if you know when to dash, which is after a dash on hit which leaves reptile fullscreen and + something and reverse sides thus avoiding the corner+ some combos that change sides youll see dash isnt useless

spit can be beaten by iceball on a read or a slide which is risky because you dont actually react to him reaching to the mouth but almost any movement really
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
STB CharlieMurphy said:
The only time SZ wins the trade 100% is if he is super close on a FB trade... or if he uses exFreeze. Most of the match is played at like 3/4ths screen where SZ can only get a slide. Hence why I use exFreeze anytime I can.
It is more or less a 5-5 when you get right down to it. Reptile does have a good d4 that leads to a safe move in AH, so he can always keep his spacing. He also has a legit way out of the corner that SZ really can't do a whole lot about.
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not really, you dont need to use the jik setup to win

ex freeze should be used sparingly, you can look at my sub vs reptile fight, sometimes it was a lifesaver but most of the time it was a 1 bar setback

and both iceball and icebeam can be punished by a double dash or free pressure
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Qwark28 said:
not really, you dont need to use the jik setup to win

ex freeze should be used sparingly, you can look at my sub vs reptile fight, sometimes it was a lifesaver but most of the time it was a 1 bar setback

and both iceball and icebeam can be punished by a double dash or free pressure
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you can exFreeze FB on reaction from anywhere that isn't full screen. So no... using it sparingly is a bad idea in my opinion. Why not turn reptiles biggest asset in the MU against him?

Reptile can also just wait for you to MOVE in on him and exSlide..... so yeah... legit way out. I wasn't saying it was easy or what not.. but all it takes is a decent read of "ok he is going to hit me now" and he'll get out of the corner.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
STB CharlieMurphy said:
you can exFreeze FB on reaction from anywhere that isn't full screen. So no... using it sparingly is a bad idea in my opinion. Why not turn reptiles biggest asset in the MU against him?

Reptile can also just wait for you to MOVE in on him and exSlide..... so yeah... legit way out. I wasn't saying it was easy or what not.. but all it takes is a decent read of "ok he is going to hit me now" and he'll get out of the corner.
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if youre part braindead then of course they can easily make that read on you, its easy enough to tell when they want to ex slide.

because it costs meter and you dont wanna be left without a breaker when he can switch sides with just a bnb and im not even sure you can do it on reaction because i dont see any subs offline doing it, will test this weekend
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Qwark28 said:
if youre part braindead then of course they can easily make that read on you, its easy enough to tell when they want to ex slide.

because it costs meter and you dont wanna be left without a breaker when he can switch sides with just a bnb and im not even sure you can do it on reaction because i dont see any subs offline doing it, will test this weekend
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Armor is braindead.... its not hard to just sit there and wait for SZ to do ANYTHING. i'm not calling you out or anything.... but exSlide is a problem. The funny thing is that you can do it right back to him.

Exfreeze is a game changer. Once you find that sweet spot and start reacting to FB's.... it allows you to move more freely.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
STB CharlieMurphy said:
Armor is braindead.... its not hard to just sit there and wait for SZ to do ANYTHING. i'm not calling you out or anything.... but exSlide is a problem. The funny thing is that you can do it right back to him.

Exfreeze is a game changer. Once you find that sweet spot and start reacting to FB's.... it allows you to move more freely.
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thing is that you should be looking out for it, when im in the corner my first job is to bait the slide, its easy especially if they like to throw it out the moment they see you move, it wastes a bar and you lose hp, its risky to just use it like that.

heres how it is though

fullscreen reptile wins and you cant do it on reaction

3/4 is where shit goes down, ex freeze can be used, reptile can barely get out a forceball after an iceball, anything past that and its too risky for reptile to throw any projectiles

ill experment with ex freeze but what i like to do is jumpover deep jik ice clone
 
o forever villain o

o forever villain o

Noob
5-5.. and that's being nice about it lol I tend to think sub has the tools to shut down reptile but the only sub I found that could shut my reptile down almost every game was mk cobra.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
5-5.

Both parties are reduced to methodical, lame-ass play lol. They both beat each other just by playing patiently.

To comment on slides, though, pick up d3 isn't always an option if the Reptile player is aware of DTR.
 
GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
I was actually contemplating making a thread on this match-up, but I see it's been done already.

So anyway, this is actually one of my favorite match-ups to play. I don't main Sub-Zero, but I have dabbled in him a ton and I tended to have success dealing with Reptile players...however, as of late I've come to see how this match can favor Reptile.

Sub-Zero's not the kind of character that can zone Reptile. He can duck the Acid Spit, but the idea of jumping the Force Balls can get shut down quickly as Reptile can alternate between two speeds when throwing them. And unlike Sub-Zero's Ice Ball, Reptile can chip at his life from a distance. The Ice Clone won't help Sub to advance upon his opponent due to the nature of Reptile's zoning. Trading is out of the question, as a Force Ball will juggle Sub-Zero on hit...long enough so that even if Reptile is frozen, Sub won't be able to regain his footing quick enough to come in and do b1 2 1. Sometimes he can get in an Ice Slide before Reptile recovers, and sometimes that will get blown up by a full combo on crouch-block. Too much of a gamble there.

As you pointed out yourself, the main goal of this fight is to corner Reptile and fucking rape him there, all while watching for his EX Elbow Dash (which can be interrupted in the middle) or EX Acid Slide (armored and hits low). You can't hope to win at midscreen unless the Reptile is atrocious at trading and keeping you out. Knockdowns will give Sub-Zero an advantage as I don't find Reptile's Wake-Ups to be all that viable.

Get caught in a combo, you've lost about 35% - 40% of your life and will be facing a Force Ball set-up, then you'll have to go in again. I don't see Sub-Zero getting much meter in this match-up aside from sustaining damage, but if he does have some on hand you can force Reptile to respect EX Freeze even at full-screen. Should a Force Ball hit you during such a trade, you'll still have time to approach and land your b1 2 1 to start up pressure. When putting on the pressure, be wary of the Elbow Dash; at six frames, if you do 2 1, pause, and attempt to follow with more attacks, Reptile can read this and stop you with the dash...unless it can be stuffed with a d3? I have thought about this at some point, but never got to test it.

Again, don't clone just to clone. Even with a life lead, Reptile will find a way to catch up from a distance. Stay on top of him. Save the clones for the corner.

That's pretty much how I see the match-up. It may still be 5-5 like I initially thought it was, but I'm not sure on this. I might have been succeeding in this match-up because a lot of Reptiles I play are in a hurry to trade rather than watch and read what I will do. Whenever I play smarter Reptiles, the challenge really picks up.

Qwark28
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
GamerBlake90 said:
I was actually contemplating making a thread on this match-up, but I see it's been done already.

So anyway, this is actually one of my favorite match-ups to play. I don't main Sub-Zero, but I have dabbled in him a ton and I tended to have success dealing with Reptile players...however, as of late I've come to see how this match can favor Reptile.

Sub-Zero's not the kind of character that can zone Reptile. He can duck the Acid Spit, but the idea of jumping the Force Balls can get shut down quickly as Reptile can alternate between two speeds when throwing them. And unlike Sub-Zero's Ice Ball, Reptile can chip at his life from a distance. The Ice Clone won't help Sub to advance upon his opponent due to the nature of Reptile's zoning. Trading is out of the question, as a Force Ball will juggle Sub-Zero on hit...long enough so that even if Reptile is frozen, Sub won't be able to regain his footing quick enough to come in and do b1 2 1. Sometimes he can get in an Ice Slide before Reptile recovers, and sometimes that will get blown up by a full combo on crouch-block. Too much of a gamble there.

As you pointed out yourself, the main goal of this fight is to corner Reptile and fucking rape him there, all while watching for his EX Elbow Dash (which can be interrupted in the middle) or EX Acid Slide (armored and hits low). You can't hope to win at midscreen unless the Reptile is atrocious at trading and keeping you out. Knockdowns will give Sub-Zero an advantage as I don't find Reptile's Wake-Ups to be all that viable.

Get caught in a combo, you've lost about 35% - 40% of your life and will be facing a Force Ball set-up, then you'll have to go in again. I don't see Sub-Zero getting much meter in this match-up aside from sustaining damage, but if he does have some on hand you can force Reptile to respect EX Freeze even at full-screen. Should a Force Ball hit you during such a trade, you'll still have time to approach and land your b1 2 1 to start up pressure. When putting on the pressure, be wary of the Elbow Dash; at six frames, if you do 2 1, pause, and attempt to follow with more attacks, Reptile can read this and stop you with the dash...unless it can be stuffed with a d3? I have thought about this at some point, but never got to test it.

Again, don't clone just to clone. Even with a life lead, Reptile will find a way to catch up from a distance. Stay on top of him. Save the clones for the corner.

That's pretty much how I see the match-up. It may still be 5-5 like I initially thought it was, but I'm not sure on this. I might have been succeeding in this match-up because a lot of Reptiles I play are in a hurry to trade rather than watch and read what I will do. Whenever I play smarter Reptiles, the challenge really picks up.

Qwark28
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before i even read a word of that post

sonya player! you have been spoiled by easy damage, you rack disciprine!
 
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