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Match-up Discussion Sonyas Match-Ups

Death

Noob
MIT we can agree to disagree.

I hope to play you at FR.

Dizzy. Yeah It is in Sonyas favor. She builds meter better than he does. Has a better keep away game, better projectile too. The best options for getting out of his pressure. 7f 1, 7f uppercut and EX cartwheel combo that leads to nearly 40%. What more can a player ask for. The only issue Sonya has to do deal with his d4msf1. Most times I dont want to do that to cage because it puts me right beside him :/
 
MITDJT Can you explain why Lao is 6-4 for Sonya?
here comes a list haha:
* low hitbox: can't use standing 2s in footsies bcuz of her d4 and makes his rushdown less effective vs her
*pressure: getting out of d4 ms to f+1 pressure isn't going to be easy, and you will have to guess what to do. Lao can spin out, but that is a very dangerous risk that will get you punished greatly if it doesn't work. Also she can instant divekick your counterpokes as well
*projectile: obviously he can tele on this, but has to be careful how he times it and also if he wants to throw hats, this projectile will win the war bcuz it is quicker and recovers faster
*teleport punish: can easily punish tele with d2 since her d2 is so swift, can also punish it with ex kartwheel all day and i believe ex kartwheel beats ex tele as well. Or she can d4 it and kartwheel after the d4 to get a full combo.
*divekick from lao: she can actually d2 his divekicks and also standing 1 them i believe
*crossups: won't be working for him like it'd work vs others bcuz of her swift d2 and her ex kartwheel
*footsies game: favors her bcuz he can't use his standing 2 on her d4, so he has to resort to doing less effective footsies tools to deal with her. Her standing 4 can work well in footsies and divekick must be scouted by lao.
 

Death

Noob
here comes a list haha:
* low hitbox: can't use standing 2s in footsies bcuz of her d4 and makes his rushdown less effective vs her
*pressure: getting out of d4 ms to f+1 pressure isn't going to be easy, and you will have to guess what to do. Lao can spin out, but that is a very dangerous risk that will get you punished greatly if it doesn't work. Also she can instant divekick your counterpokes as well
*projectile: obviously he can tele on this, but has to be careful how he times it and also if he wants to throw hats, this projectile will win the war bcuz it is quicker and recovers faster
*teleport punish: can easily punish tele with d2 since her d2 is so swift, can also punish it with ex kartwheel all day and i believe ex kartwheel beats ex tele as well. Or she can d4 it and kartwheel after the d4 to get a full combo.
*divekick from lao: she can actually d2 his divekicks and also standing 1 them i believe
*crossups: won't be working for him like it'd work vs others bcuz of her swift d2 and her ex kartwheel
*footsies game: favors her bcuz he can't use his standing 2 on her d4, so he has to resort to doing less effective footsies tools to deal with her. Her standing 4 can work well in footsies and divekick must be scouted by lao.
Cant believe I didnt see this earlier.

- Sonya does not have a low hitbox. All of KLs options work vs her like it would vs any other MEDIUM sized hit box character. Tele instant 3 hits her pretty decently and his standing 2 hits her in open space as well. Only reason why people mistake her for having a low hitbox char in this MU is because of her uppercut
- Sonya doesnt have a pressure game. Shes build off mixups with getting you here and there. KL never has to spin out of anything. He has a 7f 2 which works well vs her. She cant dive kick counter pokes. She can counter poke with her 4 but KL counter poke game is better with his 2.
- KL beats sonya in a projectile war. KL can teleport it obviously but mixing up ground hat with straight hat will outzone her in the long run. He also builds meter and can dive kick over her projectile game if he wants. He has more options than her when at long distance.
- Yes Sonya can punish tele with uppercut if the KL is predictable with it. If she hesitates the KL tele 3 will hit because of her hitbox.
- Sonya fast uppercut actually hurts her in this MU. If KL crosses her up he can tele 3 for over 40%. Her best bet is to dash out of the way but even then the tele 3 auto correct and hits her but its an instant tele 3.
- EX cartwheel would be a waste of meter on cross up because if KL teles it whiffs. If KL dive kick it still whiffs. Her best bet is to save her meter. And since she cant build meter that well she needs it.
- KL can also spin her out of her block strings. She struggles vs low hitbox characters more so than KL does. KL can also spin her out of MS block strings for free. Most characters need x-ray or armor but KL doesnt have to waste meter to do this.
- With KL run a way game. Jumping teleporting on cross ups. dive kicking on cross ups are all safe options vs her.

The only reason why its even is because Sonya can punish KL hard for any mistake. She can get over 50% on any random spin and nearly 40% if KL opts to do 24 low hat to try and "fake me out" which most scrubs KLs still do lol

Evil_Riu48

Any thoughts on the KL/Sonya MU?

I also updated the first post. What do you think of that chart?
 

Death

Noob
Surprised to see you changed your mind it being 6-4 in Sonyas favor. Before you were one of the most adamant 5-5 advocates. Needless to say, I agree though.
Changed my mind. Back to 5-5 lol. I actually never had issues and always had success vs Cages in casuals but we'll play a shit ton at FF

xKhaoTikx

I changed the Noob and Sindel to 6-4. This MU is completely different than online. Online favors them tremendously. Tough to react to projectiles. While offline its a whole lot easier to react too.
 
The only reason why its even is because Sonya can punish KL hard for any mistake. She can get over 50% on any random spin and nearly 40% if KL opts to do 24 low hat to try and "fake me out" which most scrubs KLs still do lol

Evil_Riu48

Any thoughts on the KL/Sonya MU?

I also updated the first post. What do you think of that chart?

i think it is even because kung lao controls the air much better and he does not have to be playing around her d4 he has the tools to play against her


to be honest i am even thinking about training kung lao as a secondary to play against sonya players in tourneys
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Man I never saw how KL/Sonya was in Sonya's favor. It never felt that way when I played it.
 

Death

Noob
I updated the OP. To all you fools out there who think I downplay that is my honest opinion on all MUs. She for sure is not top 4. 5th spot either goes to Sonya or Freddy.

The only MUs I'm not too sure about is Sheeva, Jade, Stryker. I know she beats them but I dont know how bad.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
I updated the OP. To all you fools out there who think I downplay that is my honest opinion on all MUs. She for sure is not top 4. 5th spot either goes to Sonya or Freddy.

The only MUs I'm not too sure about is Sheeva, Jade, Stryker. I know she beats them but I dont know how bad.
I think kenshi 6-4, so lets go through this match here, I know its been done over and over but I may have something new. What, in your opinion, is sonyas best tool to get in on kenshi?
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I updated the OP. To all you fools out there who think I downplay that is my honest opinion on all MUs. She for sure is not top 4. 5th spot either goes to Sonya or Freddy.

The only MUs I'm not too sure about is Sheeva, Jade, Stryker. I know she beats them but I dont know how bad.
So you're saying jade Stryker sheeva are 6/4 just like smoke????

Need I say anything else?
 

Death

Noob
I think kenshi 6-4, so lets go through this match here, I know its been done over and over but I may have something new. What, in your opinion, is sonyas best tool to get in on kenshi?
7-3. Ill never change my opinion on the MU. Its worst than Kabal. But its not 8-2 or 9-1 like most of Kenshis MUs so she can win here just takes work.

The main reason why its not an 8-2 MU is because of her EX cartwheel. She can blow up Kenshis zoning with it but she can only throw it out on a read. If Kenshi has really good spacing its tough for it to hit because he knows thats all he has to worry about. Sonya has a very hard time building meter in this MU too. Kenshi has meter all the time so if Sonya does get an ex cartwheel through he can just break and hell get the meter back.

I still dont know why irrelavant players say "just use MS 2". That move is at least 25 frames and you think me doing that in open space will do anything vs Kenshi? Ridiculous.

Sonya has no answer for a whiffed SC. She cant even dash in D4 or anything. Her best bet is to throw ring toss when it whiffs on a read and use the adv to come in with D4. Its hard to zone kenshi too because offline he can react to projectiles and reflect them a lot easier. Its not like an Instant air projectile that sonya can toss out mid screen. The ring is fast but you can see it coming on start up a mile away.

Once sonya is in she cant stay in which is a problem here. Same thing as the freddy MU. All her strings hit high even vs Kenshi. And Kenshi has loads of safe armor to deal with her MS block strings.

I hate it when people say "jump". If I have to jump to do anything good than that sucks too.

Kenshi can just D1~SC or D3~SC. At worst hes getting D4d. Its not combo punishable at all. But most times Kenshi an just poke out and using the EX SC. Kenshi doesnt give a fuck about using meter. He will always have it.

Sonya best chance is to capatalize on Kenshis mistakes and making good reads on his zoning.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
7-3. Ill never change my opinion on the MU. Its worst than Kabal. But its not 8-2 or 9-1 like most of Kenshis MUs so she can win here just takes work.

The main reason why its not an 8-2 MU is because of her EX cartwheel. She can blow up Kenshis zoning with it but she can only throw it out on a read. If Kenshi has really good spacing its tough for it to hit because he knows thats all he has to worry about. Sonya has a very hard time building meter in this MU too. Kenshi has meter all the time so if Sonya does get an ex cartwheel through he can just break and hell get the meter back.

I still dont know why irrelavant players say "just use MS 2". That move is at least 25 frames and you think me doing that in open space will do anything vs Kenshi? Ridiculous.

Sonya has no answer for a whiffed SC. She cant even dash in D4 or anything. Her best bet is to throw ring toss when it whiffs on a read and use the adv to come in with D4. Its hard to zone kenshi too because offline he can react to projectiles and reflect them a lot easier. Its not like an Instant air projectile that sonya can toss out mid screen. The ring is fast but you can see it coming on start up a mile away.

Once sonya is in she cant stay in which is a problem here. Same thing as the freddy MU. All her strings hit high even vs Kenshi. And Kenshi has loads of safe armor to deal with her MS block strings.

I hate it when people say "jump". If I have to jump to do anything good than that sucks too.

Kenshi can just D1~SC or D3~SC. At worst hes getting D4d. Its not combo punishable at all. But most times Kenshi an just poke out and using the EX SC. Kenshi doesnt give a fuck about using meter. He will always have it.

Sonya best chance is to capatalize on Kenshis mistakes and making good reads on his zoning.
I was always like wtf are people talking about ms2, but I just figured this out last night. If you get to like half screen and can get into military stance (all you need to do is dodge one overhead or teleflurry really) you can use ms2 on reaction to an overhead slash or telflurry and you will dodge it and hit kenshi. His only option is to spirit charge/ ex spirit charge but if you are looking for that you can back dash and whiff punish with a ring, which will allow you to either go into military stance again and start the same set up or dash in and close space. While kenshi can walk back, he is now using less specials and being forced to ex shoulder charge, which means he will have less meter and when you get in you have less to worry about. You still have to deal with blocked shoulder charges and all up close, but by using military stance and all you are building more meter which can get you another ex cartwheel. This helps more than you think. Trust me.
 

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
100% agree, wouldn't change a thing.

Death You should teach me the Lao vs Sonya MU, because that shit definitely feels 6-4 Sonya whenever I play it. You're on Psn right?
 

Death

Noob
I was always like wtf are people talking about ms2, but I just figured this out last night. If you get to like half screen and can get into military stance (all you need to do is dodge one overhead or teleflurry really) you can use ms2 on reaction to an overhead slash or telflurry and you will dodge it and hit kenshi. His only option is to spirit charge/ ex spirit charge but if you are looking for that you can back dash and whiff punish with a ring, which will allow you to either go into military stance again and start the same set up or dash in and close space. While kenshi can walk back, he is now using less specials and being forced to ex shoulder charge, which means he will have less meter and when you get in you have less to worry about. You still have to deal with blocked shoulder charges and all up close, but by using military stance and all you are building more meter which can get you another ex cartwheel. This helps more than you think. Trust me.
Dude MS2 is so slow to throw out in mid screen. Kenshi can just do EX SC because he doesnt give a fuck. lol If Kenshis are falling for a 25f move in open space than I dont know what to say...
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Dude MS2 is so slow to throw out in mid screen. Kenshi can just do EX SC because he doesnt give a fuck. lol If Kenshis are falling for a 25f move in open space than I dont know what to say...
They arent falling for shit,Its on reaction because while it is 25f it still moves really quickly on start up. You have to have a good reaction time, but it is definetly possible, I sat there and tested it. When I get a chance I will make a video because I can understand that this really doesnt make sense on paper.
 

Death

Noob
100% agree, wouldn't change a thing.

Death You should teach me the Lao vs Sonya MU, because that shit definitely feels 6-4 Sonya whenever I play it. You're on Psn right?
Yeah add me. The MU isnt bad for KL at all. He can do alot to Sonya than most characters cant do at all.
 

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
Yeah add me. The MU isnt bad for KL at all. He can do alot to Sonya than most characters cant do at all.
I hope you're right man. I'm gonna hop on in a lil bit for some B Ops 2, I'll add you.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
I agree with the Noob match-up. I don't know where these people are getting 5-5 from.
 

SatsuiYesHadou

Yung Kneecaps
I would say vs cage its a 5.5-4.5
Sonya has the superior armor but its not that hard to deal with. Cage just needs to watch those cartwheels and he should be alright and sonyas zoning is good but nothing cage should really be worried about. Her d4 could be a bit of a problem but no worse than mileenas for him
 

Death

Noob
RYX

Sonya-Noob MU was 5-5 to a lot of people because of the match online. Noob zoning is godlike online and can make it a pain for Sonya to read the shadows. Offline this is not the case. 6-4 Sonya. Could be 7-3 at the highest possible level.

SatsuiYesHadou

Sonya beats Cage 6-4 for sure. She has the best options to get out of his pressure. 7f 1 and 7f uppercut along with EX Cartwheel that does around 35%. What more can sonya ask for. She can turtle a lot better too with her D4 and Ring Toss.


I also updated the OP. Looks 100% accurate. If people still call me a downplayer than I dont know what to say...
 
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