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Sonya is a top 3 character

Death

Noob
I know you can jump MS F+1 on block strings. On a blocked D+4 in open space I'm not too sure. Offline Armoring out of D+4 MS F+1 isnt too bad at all.
 

Death

Noob
KingHippo, Kenshi doesn't even have a strong full screen keep away game. Freddy and Noob present more difficulties for Sonya.
Telefury has poor tracking while the overhead slashes are slow. Kenshi's zoning game revolves around the spirit charge at mid range. Sonya can penetrate his defense if you fight patiently and make good reads. I think she is better off vs Kenshi than Kitana, and Mr. Mileena's Kitana is doing well vs Pig's Kenshi. I can only imagine what he would do with a character that has armor and great offense.
No not noob god no. Its kenshis armor and safe armor that gives him problems. His EX teleflurry alone has like 10 hits of armor lol. Kenshi is Noob on steroids man. His recoveries on his zoning is shit. Kenshi is so much better than Noob and way harder to deal with.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I know you can jump MS F+1 on block strings. On a blocked D+4 in open space I'm not too sure. Offline Armoring out of D+4 MS F+1 isnt too bad at all.
I probably am thinking of 114 MS lol.
 

REO

Undead
d+4~ms~f+1 JAILS, what the hell are you people smoking? And even if the Sonya player delays the f+1 after the MS so you can jump out, why the hell would you want to risk it? So the f+1 can clip you in the air and then combo into her cartwheel? Good job.

*Shang Tsung Clap*
 
i mean isnt sonya's entire offense based upon that fact that strings in ms f1 jail so she can then loop her pressure and shit based upon the fact that you are reading ms f1 and even if u do start jumping out (which wont work if they hit the link) a good player should butt buck u for that
 

Death

Noob
Thats what i was saying in the earlier pages. It clips you out of the air when you jump in open space. Its not a good strat at all lol. But it can be jumped out of on blocked strings. Thats why you do MS B+4 if you want to go low. That you cannot jump out of.
 

LEGEND

YES!
no way bro, she definately diserves top 3 if not top 5.... who really gives her a hard time besides kabal? kabal and shoot fireballs but she has good dashes so she can dash block under them better than most characters. kenshi and freddy are based off reads also freddy can be armored out his nightmare stance and his ground claw if u expect it.
its more about her not beating enough characters than characters that beat her, its not like she walk all over 60% of the cast

when the official tier list project is all said and done she will most likely land in the 4-9 range probably with around 160-164/300
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Man the EVO-DEV "zoning era" was awesome lets go back to that. Remember how Kitana and Kabal projectiles were ruining streams and the scene would die if they weren't nerfed or the dash wasn't brought back. Those were the good old days.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
its more about her not beating enough characters than characters that beat her, its not like she walk all over 60% of the cast

when the official tier list project is all said and done she will most likely land in the 4-9 range probably with around 160-164/300
Honestly, that'd be the only thing that would keep her out of top 3. And even then, her bad matchups aren't downright terrible, and are pretty few in numbers.
 

LEGEND

YES!
d+4~ms~f+1 JAILS, what the hell are you people smoking? And even if the Sonya player delays the f+1 after the MS so you can jump out, why the hell would you want to risk it? So the f+1 can clip you in the air and then combo into her cartwheel? Good job.

*Shang Tsung Clap*
all i know is that i've hit a ranged D4 MS-any followup with a D4, 4 , Grapple and armored move as Stryker. Point blank might be a different story

EDIT: just checked the frame data, if i read it correctly you have 19 frames to play with if sonya goes for F1 off a blocked D4-MS
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
No offense to anyone, but I don't see how you couldn't not call the mid range ground based offense being important in any fighting game...ever.
 

Somberness

Lights
d+4~ms~f+1 JAILS, what the hell are you people smoking? And even if the Sonya player delays the f+1 after the MS so you can jump out, why the hell would you want to risk it? So the f+1 can clip you in the air and then combo into her cartwheel? Good job.

*Shang Tsung Clap*
Just tested it, ms f1's range is so good that even off a max range down 4, it still landed on the 15th frame. So yeah, it is unavoidable, you just have to do it fast enough.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
its more about her not beating enough characters than characters that beat her, its not like she walk all over 60% of the cast

when the official tier list project is all said and done she will most likely land in the 4-9 range probably with around 160-164/300
She does tho
she can run through 60% of the cast easily
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
You guys make great arguments. Can we just remove every single instance of frame advantage characters have in this game? SEE YA LATER KABAL.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
No not noob god no. Its kenshis armor and safe armor that gives him problems. His EX teleflurry alone has like 10 hits of armor lol. Kenshi is Noob on steroids man. His recoveries on his zoning is shit. Kenshi is so much better than Noob and way harder to deal with.
I definitely agree with you. You do not have to convince me that Noob is the very definition of average. LOL. But Sonya can armor through Kenshi's armor with EX CW if you are in range. She gets a juggle into guaranteed pressure. He does not. As I said, though, I cannot speak in detail for Sonya vs Kenshi, but the time will come when everyone sees the light.

The main point I am making is if the Sonya player knows how to overcome zoning, he can put himself at d+4 range with one good guess (at least vs Freddy). Then you are either forced to retreat into the corner or block d+4 xx MS f+1. Even if you retreat, the Sonya player is still one dash away from d+4 xx MS f+1. If you teleport back, you are now cornered. If you teleport forward, even with EX teleport, she has enough time to dash and d+4 xx MS f+1. If you decide to block d+4 xx MS f+1, you afraid to poke back because dive kick leads to 40% juggles into guaranteed pressure. If you decide to jump back after d+4 xx MS f+1, the player can poke with her standing 7F jab (which hits ALL block-crouching characters. LOL.) and set you up for more guaranteed pressure.

Bull shit.
 
One of the reasons i've made raiden as my secondary is that ive come to realize this game is pressure oriented(i still have faith in his potential but in reality his entire mixup is based off two fully punishable moves, albiet two AMAZING moves, if u just play patiently though i dont know, raiden has to grab a lot), while theoretically if u read perfectly raiden can dominate if u space out and whiff punish, but the problem is amounting an offense with him is very limited and i feel i have a very strong pressure game, he doesnt have the amount of variations that im falling in love with liu kang, at the right times i can kill some1 real fast with liu.... i think the more people understand the matchups in this game they'll realize that the ability to maintain pressure in this is key. (i think kenshi is one of those chars who can do this except its zoning which is why i think hes a serious force, also kung lao and jax are different because they have bullshit)

Sonya is one of the few chars in this game who has continuous pressure options based upon good reads(JC). She has a reset and extensive pressure options into a safe launcher but lets review her limitless options

1.safe on block armored combo starter INTO a reset (only other chars in this game that have an armored move into a reset are kabal and skarlet, im stealing this from @gr8one and saying this is something special and maybe a little bit bs that seperates these characters fromt he rest of the cast, we arent sure about skarlet yet noone has pushed her to her potential but we are pretty sure kabal is nutty)
1a. safe on block cancellable launcher which limits ur options, down 1 is safe, oh wait she can armor through it or block and counter-poke, so ur forced to make reads after blocking her pressure ender because the recovery is so minute, FUCK
2. incredible dash speed(is she #1?)
3.low/mid hitbox
4.super bs down 4 which she can link into a safe launcher or ms pressure, out spaces every1 like a hoe
5. a jump arc changing combo starter making anti-airing's risk reward pretty shitty, while punishable, this is something seriously unique and threatening, especially since it can escape pressure so quickly(isnt instan air dive kick like 5 frames jesus fucking christ that gives her kung laoish abilities, oh wait she has armor (boohoo u can read it and whiff punish it, that is a distinct difference from any1 in the game) obh wait, thats right it autocorrects!!!!!!!!
6. strong anti-air jab one of the best ive heard (i think sektors is underrated), a 6 frame uppercut which u dont really need
7.her projectile is solid, not too shabby, is a pain in my liu kangs ass(it aint that easy to time that shit out when she gets advantage).
8. im too exhauisted to keep going ill add on later

she is really good, though u can whiff punish that hoe.
 
its more about her not beating enough characters than characters that beat her, its not like she walk all over 60% of the cast

when the official tier list project is all said and done she will most likely land in the 4-9 range probably with around 160-164/300
the official tier list project doesnt mean anything in my book, maybe thats because im a liu kang player and i know hes gonna be midtier but i know that fucker is way better than that.
 

Espio

Kokomo
If Sonya runs through 60% of the roster, that means she destroys around 19 characters, who are these characters she runs through easily? I'm seriously curious whom falls under that large number.

That list would have to include some heavy hitters, not just those considered bottom tier or "bad".
 
the problem with matchup charts in this game is that theoretically i love this shit and its amazing advice,

but i think some matchups are hard to quantify because some characters have such unique abilities, like johnny cage and raiden....

while everyone may think about how hard some characters own johnny cage in terms of this beats that...

but the reality is that cage's pressure (and his footsies options and back 3) are so good that in fact the matchup could be even in his favor but ur only argument is if cage gets in.

with raiden's its like everything gets neutralized.....