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Match-Up Discussion - Sonya Blade Sonya Blade Matchup Thread

So you know when you're playing a relatively new player, and they save up all 3 bars for their x-ray- but you're ready to bait it out...

...You then block 10 consecutive negative-on-block strings, just ready to bait and block the inevitable reverse x-ray...

.. but it doesn't come out, so you finally decide it's safe to press a button and...

WHAM!!! EEEXXXXX-RAYYYYYYYY TO YO FAAAAACE

This is what the Predator matchup feels like, except replace "all 3 bars" with "just 1 bar". Oh my god I hate this matchup. Not sure if it's a bad matchup, a good matchup, or an even matchup for Sonya, but I am sure that I hate playing it with the white hot burning passion of a thousand suns.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
What a predator player who doesn't ex wakeup? That's unheard off?

I've seen some creative ones who mix up the flying discs and laser beams just so they can chip damage me because the discs force you to block instead of duck.
 

DaZengie

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MortalKombatATX/
The HQT predator match up is very bad. Very very bad. You have to be patient and block and walk forward. Go covert ops and put him in the corner and don't let him out. Ever. Haven't tried demolition on this yet but I'd imagine that reloading while playing laser tag is not effective. Also you want to keep him close to you and not knock him far away.
His d4 into ground laser must be blocked. Can't jump out unless you armor through it. Don't jump either because you can eat a NJP or air disc. Only jump in after he does a NJP so he's forced to block and knock him down. His wake up isn't good so you can do 21 or 12 or b33 to stuff it.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Go covert ops and put him in the corner and don't let him out. Ever.
Yep thats the best strategy, kick him into the corner and start pummeling, to get out he'll either ExWakeUp( that stab) or one of his quick low kicks. This one time I exparried his exwakeup and then activated the Garrote that brutality, the win left me beaming especially after suffering to find a break from all his zoning and flying discs.
 
Yeah, I've broken the armor on his EX wakeup a couple times by accident. I reckon I'll use 21 if I can to put ice on it
 

Mish

Noob
Any opener beats it, 21, 121, b332, b14 they all beat it cause it comes out ridiculously slow, there is literally no point in playing around predator wakeups you might as well just bully him on the ground constantly
 

DaZengie

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MortalKombatATX/
So the way I've been approaching HQT predator:
Despite the bad matchup, it's not impossible to win. Use Covert Ops to rush him down and don't let him start his game.
Here's what you need to learn before you go into the match:
1) know his strings. You have to block high low on his string > ground laser (think Kung Lao buzzsaw)
2) his d4 to low ground close laser cannot be jumped out. Only armor or backdash works.
3) if you get hit by a ground laser, you MUST block the next immediate one. Ground laser staggers too much (think Kano's knife) for you to jump away.
4) ground lasers don't hit you until they explode on the ground
5) if he does an air/ground disc, run into his face and xray. Disc = free xray since it auto tracks.
6) learn the timing of the disc wind up. if he throws a gound and air one, you can jump over the first disc if you time it right. the second disc is harder to jump over so maybe just block it otherwise you get sent back to full screen.

Before we get into the "what I should do" section, let's talk about what you should avoid (not to say to not do any of these at all because something good can come out of it)
1) don't trade projectiles with him. our bf2 pink laser isn't worth staying full screen vs his lasers. BF2 is poop but better than nothing.
2) Avoid jumping in (unless you're referring to #1 in the DO section below). He has too many options - njp, air disc, air laser.
3) don't random dive kick. This = free d4 and he keeps you out.
4) don't lose patience/hope. I've played rounds where it took 50+ game seconds just to win.
5) learn the timing of his wake up. Know when to press 12, 21, b33 so that it stuffs his wake up. I believe d3 cancel to parry also works on his wake up. His armor eats the d3 but the parry comes out before he stabs you.

The "what I should do" section:
To go from full screen to mid screen isn't that bad, but to get from f2 range to his face is a challenge. You must be within max F2 range or his D4 range for the following:
1) if he NJP, you want until his active frames for his punch to be over and you respond with f2/f2b1 or a jump in (no dive kick, you're in good position even if he blocks your jump in. Doing in a blocked jump in + dive kick = you can't do your blockstrings/mix ups on him since you get pushed back). He must block this as his armor attack won't come out fast enough to stuff you. If he does a second NJP, you will hit him out of it on your jump in or f2. You can also ex db4 arc kick to hit him out of the air and corner carry him.
2) if he throws a disc, you must react to this and do f2b1 for a hard knockdown. If your reactions are good, he will not recover in time so this is where you will need to go in and make him play your game.
3) if he does d4 to close ground laser, you can
a) block both and you stay within f2 range and see what else he does
b) armor through the ground laser with ex db4 or ex bf4 (if within range), whichever corner is closer.
4) if he does d4 to ex ground lasers, depending on distance
a) if you're really close to him, you can block the first laser after it explodes on the ground and do a very quick jump forward very low dive kick and it'll stuff his recovery. This requires some labbing as timing and execution are strict. Almost impossible online with the input lag.
b) if you're within f2 range, you may have to block the first 2 lasers but you can run forward or jump in before the 3rd laser explodes. predator is forced to block afterwards.

When you put him in the corner, don't let him out. One mistake could spell trouble and you have to play that zoning game all over again. Keep pressuring him. F2 is your best friend. You'll realize how awesome f2 is if you haven't done so already. Look for laser patterns. See how he responds after a blocked f2 or f2b1. Also good luck and hope for a predator nerf.
 
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Dedlock

Apprentice
How's everybody's progress against Kitanas?

Her popularity has exploded online, she's become the new Kung Lao.

The key to beating her is to some how get through her fans and manage to get up close and pile the pressure on her but
..

Her rising blades ex which the majority use as a wake up is basically a get out of jail free card, it's stats suggest otherwise but I tried it out in practise and it's untouchable it causes too much push back and crush to even punish it on block. It also can be combo'd off of.

I'm trying to find a hole somewhere, she seems pretty much untouchable.

Help please.
 

Mish

Noob
STAY ON THE GROUND

I know this seems unnatural since spamming Sonya's jump in 1 is really REALLY good against most opponents. Work out their patterns, if they always throw on the ground just duck and jump over them, once they start throwing them in the air that's when you run under them and trip guard them or uppercut then pressure them on wakeup. Also never, ever use air drop unless it's to delay your airtime to dodge a standing fan toss, but if she catches you in the air it's a full combo conversion so do NOT use air drop. Once you've found out her wakeup technique you can duck to dodge the rising blades or ex parry her butt dash thing.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
I've become a pro at dodging fans I normally can deal with the low and high's but its the mid air ones that bother me, also the fans leave you suspended in the air too long!

Somebody in NRS is a huge fan of her.
 

Mish

Noob
The most annoying thing is she can jump and throw fans just after the jump so they will hit standing AND jumping opponents
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
The most annoying thing is she can jump and throw fans just after the jump so they will hit standing AND jumping opponents
yeah those are the mid air ones i was referring too,

my last match against her went like this,

jump back air fan throw, land, fan throw, fan throw, fan throw, ex fan throw, get caught combo ending with her air wave "bum" taking a safe 25%, full screen distance fan throw. fan throw, air float, mid air fan throw, fan throw, jump back air fan throw, manage to get close, upraise, fan throw combo, I;m watching the counter its at 40 seconds, I;ve been dodging and trying to counter, decided to move in a little bit quicker Kitana starts her poking game low kick poke air float delayed overhead JIP, followed by a 1,1, or 22 or whatever those quick fan pokes, i i take a risk and parry move in for pressure manages to ex wakeup, i miraculously block decide to punish with 2,1,3,4 and for some reason it whiffs and bam upraise fan throw combo end in throat slice decapitated brutality.

This match up is literally all Risk for Sonya and all Safety for Kitana.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Trust me Mournful Kitana is even worst
Glaive hits mid and only -2 on block, which means it's plus 1 million from full screen away
Air glaive hits overhead and if u got hit in the air she gets 1 more free shadow kick
Her shadow kick is safe on block against Sonya lol if you're 1/3 screen away be careful with that. If u got hit u're knocked full screen away again
You can't even parry her wakeups, most of them ignore your parry (except wakeup eclipse kick) and rising blades will launch you for 31%. But it's good to know that all of her armored wake ups is punishable on block, all of them is like -17 ~ 20 on block (it's not like other moves being at -9 and the punishing window is tight) you can always B1 them (except for eclipse kick
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Trust me Mournful Kitana is even worst
Glaive hits mid and only -2 on block, which means it's plus 1 million from full screen away
Air glaive hits overhead and if u got hit in the air she gets 1 more free shadow kick
Her shadow kick is safe on block against Sonya lol if you're 1/3 screen away be careful with that. If u got hit u're knocked full screen away again
You can't even parry her wakeups, most of them ignore your parry (except wakeup eclipse kick) and rising blades will launch you for 31%. But it's good to know that all of her armored wake ups is punishable on block, all of them is like -17 ~ 20 on block (it's not like other moves being at -9 and the punishing window is tight) you can always B1 them (except for eclipse kick
I did come across some good mournful Kitana players, basically stand back and glaive, but I charged them when they jumped in the air and then starting pummeling her like there was no tomorrow, lol, we went to three rounds and got the win with less than 5% health. I made sure I Kiss of Death'd her, it gave me some satisfaction to hear her scream.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Has the recent patch made the Kung Jin matchups more easier, it feels weird out damaging him with covert ops.

His usual njp/dive kick combo is pulling in 30 % almost 5% less than Before. Maybe I'm seeing things.
 
I think Demo beats Ferra Torr (non lackey) variation pretty handily.

Grenade toss just puts a stop to his neutral jump shenanigans. It's pretty much a hard counter. FT rely on this to make you not want to approach and instead let them control the approach. Normally running in on FT is NJP city. But Demo blows this up, pardon the pun.

And that strength of FT was definitely meant to compensate for their lack of meterless anti air. And Demo Sonya was already uber difficult to AA given she could just put a pineapple at your feet.

On another note, I am starting to realize d3 for Sonya hurts her in alot of matches. It hits soooo low to the ground that it gets crushed by other d3's where the character lifts their front leg off the ground higher ( like Sub Zero's) Its a decent poke for its speed, but in certain matchups it just loses to your opponents buttons, and your are left reliant on backdashing and d1.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
I've stopped using D3 it loses against everything, it's stats are not accurate in the menu.

D1 serves me better and it has some range.
 

skater11

The saltiest
What variation is best against war God kotal kahn in your opinion? I hate this matchup when playing against really safe Kotals who avoid gaps and just straight pressure and poke me to death. I try parrying and baiting his OH sword and it works maybe once but then they catch up to it and it's pretty hard to get in with his advancing strings. Can't trade full screen
 
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Dedlock

Apprentice
What variation is best against war God kotal kahn in your opinion? I hate this matchup when playing against really safe Kotals who avoid gaps and just straight pressure and poke me to death. I try parrying and baiting his OH sword and it works maybe once but then they catch up to it and it's pretty hard to get in with his advancing strings. Can't trade full screen
Kotal's matchups have gotten worse especially with the buffs in his other variations, but I think I've come across a breakthrough, all his moves have slow start ups, so whilst I was practicing I noticed I could easily jump over whatever war god special he had ( except air throw) and full dive kick punish since his recovery is really slow, I've tried incorporating it in my matchups and so far results are mixed I need more time to test, but one thing for sure in covert ops zoning him energy rings (full screen distance ofcourse) will get you no where, sooner or later you;re going to have to go upfront and settle it, I really hate how they keep abusing his safe strings again and again but I feel like there is progress when I fight him, its been close the last couple of times.
 

skater11

The saltiest
Kotal's matchups have gotten worse especially with the buffs in his other variations, but I think I've come across a breakthrough, all his moves have slow start ups, so whilst I was practicing I noticed I could easily jump over whatever war god special he had ( except air throw) and full dive kick punish since his recovery is really slow, I've tried incorporating it in my matchups and so far results are mixed I need more time to test, but one thing for sure in covert ops zoning him energy rings (full screen distance ofcourse) will get you no where, sooner or later you;re going to have to go upfront and settle it, I really hate how they keep abusing his safe strings again and again but I feel like there is progress when I fight him, its been close the last couple of times.
Wow I'm impressed how well the use of excessive dive kicks worked in this matchup. I was playing against a handful of kotals online and pretty much went through what you told me, it worked pretty damn well and felt more even . Now if only I had that safe dive kick timing(very low).

Would you happen to know the shrai ryu takeda matchup? I hardly play sets with anyone who mains him but I do run into them quite a lot online.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Wow I'm impressed how well the use of excessive dive kicks worked in this matchup. I was playing against a handful of kotals online and pretty much went through what you told me, it worked pretty damn well and felt more even . Now if only I had that safe dive kick timing(very low).

Would you happen to know the shrai ryu takeda matchup? I hardly play sets with anyone who mains him but I do run into them quite a lot online.
Takeda I don't fight him frequently but he's very circumstantial and he has no threatening lows except for his ex teleport which is easy to counter, he's going to try to control the Air with his njp but you've got to watch your spacing and arc kick punish.

Apart from the that I've got nothing much and see how the match progresses.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
@Tony at Home Id love to grind that match up with you more some time. I honestly dont know the matchup very well, and I was playing mostly off of reaction.

Im going into the lab with Sonya now to see what her options are vs mine.