What's new

Match-up Discussion Sonya Blade Matchup Discussion Thread

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
6-4 Sonya IMO, she can hurt him from more spaces on the screen and doesnt have that hard of a time chasing him, and since they both have to be near each other to hurt eachother she's at advantage.
 

HD Smoke

Noob
Riu48 I've been hearing that CD jr considers the Smoke-Sonya matchup 6-4 for Smoke, and that you apparently agree with that. Can either of you explain to me what advantages Smoke has aside from his ability to run away and create space? I want to know what I'm doing wrong here because I see it as 5-5. Online, in particular, Sonya having the advantage.

Maybe A F0xy Grampa and MortySeinfeld would like to share their opinion on the matchup as well?

Much appreciated.
Lol i just posted something like this in the Smoke forum. i agree i have no idea how its in Smokes favor. He can definitely win but as far as match up it has to be in sonyas favor or atleast 5-5. However I am not a top level player at all so its just my opinion. Its close but i just feel like sonya can chase and get in easy. Plus divekick beats his standing 2 AA.
 
Riu48 I've been hearing that CD jr considers the Smoke-Sonya matchup 6-4 for Smoke, and that you apparently agree with that. Can either of you explain to me what advantages Smoke has aside from his ability to run away and create space? I want to know what I'm doing wrong here because I see it as 5-5. Online, in particular, Sonya having the advantage.

Maybe A F0xy Grampa and MortySeinfeld would like to share their opinion on the matchup as well?

Much appreciated.
online. . . i think that matchup most be like 6-4 sonya lol sonya is much better online than she is offline

offline
smoke can run away and build meter very fast so by the time sonya gets to him most of the time he will have a breaker already this one of the advantage he has but it is not the only advantage he has this is why

1) he beat her at full and mid screen ( i do not think i need to explain why lol )

2) agains smoke sonya has to be very careful with her d4 because of the smoke-bomd which comes out really fast and many time even if you hit smoke on the frames of his smoke-bomb animation the smoke-bomd will still come out and trade with her d4 and he will get a full combo

3) smoke has one of the best ''poke game'' in the game and this is very scary when he elso has a fast overhead for a full combo but why this is big problems for sonya? because a big part of sonya's game has to do with pokes and smoke can easily beat her on that game . . . his d1 to smoke-bomb is really powerful and even when it is possible to jump and divekick the smoke-bomd after you block the d1 it is not something you would be able to do consistently do in a real fight when you have to be paying attention to so many things and the only why this would work is if you stand block the d1 and then jump because it will not work if you crouch block the d1 and many time in a real fight you will react late to the d1 and get it by the smoke bomd in the first frames of your jump because the hit box on the smoke-bomb force you to have to react fast to be able to be high in the air before the first active frame of the smoke-bomd or the it will hit you out of the air ( i say in a real fight because in the practice roon i can do it all day long lol but in a fight many time i get it out of the air by the smoke-bomd)

4) since smoke has the more dominant ''poke game'' this allow him to play more freely at close because you have to respect his overhead and his d1 to smoke bomd so if you are respecting the overhead 2 much his pokes will leave sonya with a small window to start her rushdown game

5) yes sonya can dive kick a poke like a d1 or d3 but you can not based your game on you been able to constantly make the read since this is only possible when you read a poke is coming and you have to commit to it. . . it can not be done on reaction and this risky because when the smoke player learn that you are looking for that ''read'' on his game all he has to do is block which involve not risk for him and a big reward
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
I think Sonya beats Smoke. Smoke's bad matchups are against characters he can't play his "poking game" against: Sonya and Kung Lao. Poking Sonya is a bad idea, so Smoke has no real way to launch his own offense. If Smoke walks up to Sonya and holds block, he's going to be giving her free offense. Can you explain to me why Sonya needs to try to d4 Smoke consistently? Doesn't she have some of the fastest normals in the game and great footsies off military stance? It's not like Smoke can just stand there and throw smoke bombs at you or get too poke happy because Sonya has really great punishers for that... I don't really understand how this would be in Smoke's favour.
 
I think Sonya beats Smoke. Smoke's bad matchups are against characters he can't play his "poking game" against: Sonya and Kung Lao. Poking Sonya is a bad idea, so Smoke has no real way to launch his own offense. If Smoke walks up to Sonya and holds block, he's going to be giving her free offense. Can you explain to me why Sonya needs to try to d4 Smoke consistently? Doesn't she have some of the fastest normals in the game and great footsies off military stance? It's not like Smoke can just stand there and throw smoke bombs at you or get too poke happy because Sonya has really great punishers for that... I don't really understand how this would be in Smoke's favour.
it is in smoke's favour because sonya has a harder time using her tools against smoke than smoke using his tools against sonya.

this matchup at high level play is 6-4 but this does not mean that smoke players win the match because when we are talking about matchups we are not talkings about wins and losts we are talking about who has a harder time fighting who
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
I don't know if I need more Sonya practice or what, but the last time I played Riu48 I literally threw my controller.
 

lazybird123

Purple Belt in BJJ, White Belt in MK
Question for the more experienced Sonyas out there:

I see some of you guys putting the Noob matchup at 3-7. While I haven't had a chance to play a great Noob player with Sonya, I have been able to deal with some decent Noobs with dash cancels, blocking high, and baiting out the Up Shadow, or hopefully, having them throw a projectile when I'm in Dive Kick distance so I can punish it. The reason I block high is because its not that easy to tell the difference between the Tackle and the Slide, but the slide just slows you down while the tackle knocks you down. Only problem is, the Up Shadow actually hits Sonya when she D4s a lot of times, so its hard to try to D4 him, which to make makes the matchup more like 4-6. While Sonya doesn't have a lot of tools to deal with Noob full screen, he doesn't have a lot of tools to deal with her from up close.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Question for the more experienced Sonyas out there:

I see some of you guys putting the Noob matchup at 3-7. While I haven't had a chance to play a great Noob player with Sonya, I have been able to deal with some decent Noobs with dash cancels, blocking high, and baiting out the Up Shadow, or hopefully, having them throw a projectile when I'm in Dive Kick distance so I can punish it. The reason I block high is because its not that easy to tell the difference between the Tackle and the Slide, but the slide just slows you down while the tackle knocks you down. Only problem is, the Up Shadow actually hits Sonya when she D4s a lot of times, so its hard to try to D4 him, which to make makes the matchup more like 4-6. While Sonya doesn't have a lot of tools to deal with Noob full screen, he doesn't have a lot of tools to deal with her from up close.
The problem is that everytime Sonya gets to attack, it will ultimately end in a knockdown and make it easier for the opponent to escape, and letting Noob Saibot free is just a pain, you can whiff punish upknees with D4s as the very least, if you're close enough a divekick.
 

lazybird123

Purple Belt in BJJ, White Belt in MK
The problem is that everytime Sonya gets to attack, it will ultimately end in a knockdown and make it easier for the opponent to escape, and letting Noob Saibot free is just a pain, you can whiff punish upknees with D4s as the very least, if you're close enough a divekick.
What do you think about a strategy where you try to finish your resets with Kartwheels instead of MSF1 or MSThrow because one of two things will happen: 1) Noob won't block and you can start a new combo, 2) he'll block, but you're up in his face anyway so you can start your pressure over.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
What do you think about a strategy where you try to finish your resets with Kartwheels instead of MSF1 or MSThrow because one of two things will happen: 1) Noob won't block and you can start a new combo, 2) he'll block, but you're up in his face anyway so you can start your pressure over.
Blocked cartwheel is disadvantage so she cant just press buttons for free, it'd be a guessing game since noob is so slow.
 

lazybird123

Purple Belt in BJJ, White Belt in MK
Blocked cartwheel is disadvantage so she cant just press buttons for free, it'd be a guessing game since noob is so slow.
No doubt, I was also thinking finishing the resets with her projectile is good, a lot of times I'm able to keep real good pressure with Dive Kicks and JIPs after they block it.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Sonya Vs Kenshi 4-6:
What is the best way for Sonya to deal with a full zoning Kenshi? Up close I know he is the least of her problems but going through his obstacle course with those overhead slashes, telekinetic fury slapping, that sword lift pop up and that kinetic push (safe on block?) It seems when I find an opening that kinetic push, I can't seem to punish it and if I read wrong and tried to jump in, he does that sword lift pop up juggle. Typically I use her Ex Cartwheel for the armor and at times, Kenshi would use his armored move so it becomes armor versus armor. I do know once Kenshi runs out of meter and Sonya has full meter, she can take him on but Kenshi builds meter so fast when she dash, block, dash block his spamming. I assume an online Kenshi is different from an offline Kenshi? Any insight, strategies, opinions would be helpful for this terrible MU. Thanks F0xy
 
My chart for Sonya. Everything based in personal experience (I've been playing her since day one. I'm not a pro but i think i know the character pretty well)

Baraka: 6-4
Cyber Sub: 6-4
Cyrax - 6-4
Ermac: 6-4
Freddy: 4-6
Jade: 6-4
Jax: 5.5-4.5
Johnny Cage: 5.5-4.5
Kabal: 3-7
Kano: 5-5
Kenshi: 3.5-6.5
Kitana: 5-5
Kung Lao: 5-5
Liu Kang: 5-5
Mileena: 5-5
Nightwolf: 6-4
Noob: 3.5-6.5
Quan Chi: 6-4
Raiden: 5-5
Rain: 6-4
Reptile: 5-5.4.5
Scorpion: 5-5
Sektor: 6-4
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 4-6
Skarlet: 6-4
Smoke: 5-5
Stryker: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5

Total: 156 (i think)
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
What is the best way for Sonya to deal with a full zoning Kenshi? Up close I know he is the least of her problems but going through his obstacle course with those overhead slashes, telekinetic fury slapping, that sword lift pop up and that kinetic push (safe on block?) It seems when I find an opening that kinetic push, I can't seem to punish it and if I read wrong and tried to jump in, he does that sword lift pop up juggle. Typically I use her Ex Cartwheel for the armor and at times, Kenshi would use his armored move so it becomes armor versus armor. I do know once Kenshi runs out of meter and Sonya has full meter, she can take him on but Kenshi builds meter so fast when she dash, block, dash block his spamming. I assume an online Kenshi is different from an offline Kenshi? Any insight, strategies, opinions would be helpful for this terrible MU. Thanks F0xy
If you learn the spacing to make his shoulder charge miss you can start zoing him, it will be too close for him to reflect, and its only a couple of steps away to D4 him. Gotta make him respect her projectile
 

Death

Noob
My chart for Sonya. Everything based in personal experience (I've been playing her since day one. I'm not a pro but i think i know the character pretty well)

Baraka: 6-4
Cyber Sub: 6-4
Cyrax - 6-4
Ermac: 6-4
Freddy: 4-6
Jade: 6-4
Jax: 5.5-4.5
Johnny Cage: 5.5-4.5
Kabal: 3-7
Kano: 5-5
Kenshi: 3.5-6.5
Kitana: 5-5
Kung Lao: 5-5
Liu Kang: 5-5
Mileena: 5-5
Nightwolf: 6-4
Noob: 3.5-6.5
Quan Chi: 6-4
Raiden: 5-5
Rain: 6-4
Reptile: 5-5.4.5
Scorpion: 5-5
Sektor: 6-4
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 4-6
Skarlet: 6-4
Smoke: 5-5
Stryker: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5

Total: 156 (i think)
Sonya beats Jax 6-4. Even with Cage. She also kills KL 6-4. Probably KLs Worst MU. She also beats Mileena and Liu Kang 6-4. She goes even with noob. No way its that bad vs Noob. She also beats raiden and Scorpion. Raiden and scorpion both lose that MU vs Sonya. She also beats Reptile 6-4. I also think she goes even with Skarlet and possibly goes 6-4 over Shang.

I do think she loses 3-7 vs Kenshi/Freddy and 4-6 vs Kabal. Those 3 being her only bad MUs
 
Well, I always counter pick KL with Sonya. She shuts down his teleport and outzones him. 6-4, then.

I play both Sonya and Mileena, and I feel it's even. I even counterpick Sonya with Mileena, and it usually works. But maybe I have to face a high level Sonya before I call it a 5-5.

Liu Kang outzones her, but when she gets in, even if he is knocked down, his crappy wake up game won't help him. I only put it as a 5-5 because of his fireballs, but based on some matches I had yesterday I'm convinced it is a 6-4, or 5.5-4.5 at least.

No way she beats Raiden. I think it's even. If anyone in the cast beats Raiden, it's Reptile. A smart Raiden won't just teleport randomly and eat a dive kick combo.

I don't think I know the Reptile MU enough, since his elbow dash is safe online, but she does outzone him.

Noob is a 4-6 IMO. With the right reads, she won't be able to get to him without losing half her life bar first, and when she gets in, without being hit by an upknee on the way, he will have a breaker. I'm pretty convinced that Sindel is also a bad MU for Sonya.

Kabal is her worst IMO. At least against Kenshi there is a sweet spot where she can throw rings without being punished. Freddy is tough, but I still think Kabal is worse.

How do you feel about Kitana? I put it as a 5-5, but I'm almost changing my mind. She outzones Sonya completely, and can compete with her up close. When Sonya gets in, there is a chance that she will be the one getting rushed down instead of Kitana.
 

Death

Noob
Ill throw mine in there.

Baraka: 6-4
Cage: 5-5
CSZ: 6-4
Cyrax: 6-4
Ermac: 5-5
Freddy: 4-6
Jade: 6-4
Jax: 6-4
Kabal: 4-6
Kano: 5-5
Kenshi: 4-6
Kitana: 5-5
Kung Lao: 6-4
Liu Kang: 6-4
Mileena- 6-4
Nightwolf: 6-4
Noob: 5-5
Quan Chi: 6-4
Raiden: 6-4
Rain: 6-4
Reptile: 6-4
Scorpion: 6-4
Sektor: 6-4
Shang: 6-4
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 4-6
Skarlet: 5-5
Smoke: 5-5
Stryker: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5

Total: 163
 

Death

Noob
Well, I always counter pick KL with Sonya. She shuts down his teleport and outzones him. 6-4, then.

I play both Sonya and Mileena, and I feel it's even. I even counterpick Sonya with Mileena, and it usually works. But maybe I have to face a high level Sonya before I call it a 5-5.

Liu Kang outzones her, but when she gets in, even if he is knocked down, his crappy wake up game won't help him. I only put it as a 5-5 because of his fireballs, but based on some matches I had yesterday I'm convinced it is a 6-4, or 5.5-4.5 at least.

No way she beats Raiden. I think it's even. If anyone in the cast beats Raiden, it's Reptile. A smart Raiden won't just teleport randomly and eat a dive kick combo.

I don't think I know the Reptile MU enough, since his elbow dash is safe online, but she does outzone him.

Noob is a 4-6 IMO. With the right reads, she won't be able to get to him without losing half her life bar first, and when she gets in, without being hit by an upknee on the way, he will have a breaker. I'm pretty convinced that Sindel is also a bad MU for Sonya.

Kabal is her worst IMO. At least against Kenshi there is a sweet spot where she can throw rings without being punished. Freddy is tough, but I still think Kabal is worse.

How do you feel about Kitana? I put it as a 5-5, but I'm almost changing my mind. She outzones Sonya completely, and can compete with her up close. When Sonya gets in, there is a chance that she will be the one getting rushed down instead of Kitana.
From reading this I can tell most of this is from online. Reptile elbow dash isnt close to being safe. Offline Reptile is eating a 40% dive kick combo. Noob is even. Sonya can get in a lot better than Noob keeping her out. EX Cartwheel also blows up anything noob does from 1/4-1/2 screen away. Its a solid 5-5 MU imo. Reptile does not beat Raiden. Raiden does lose to Sonya. Raiden doesn't have many bad MUs but Sonya is one of them. Kabal is a 4-6 MU but i dont think its her worst. At least Sonya can trap Kabal in the corner if Kabal is doing IAGB. Sonya can also ex cartwheel through his zoning. Yes its a bad MU but freddy and kenshi is much worse.

Kitana/sonya is a solid 5-5. Kitana zoning isnt good enough to change the MU. Solid 5-5

No way Mileena is even with Sonya. Sonya kills Mileena. Sonya dive kick/EX cartwheel will blow up Mileenas D+4 zoning tool. Sonya is one of Mileenas worst Matchups imo. Sonya can also punish Mileena really bad for anything Mileena does.
 
From reading this I can tell most of this is from online. Reptile elbow dash isnt close to being safe. Offline Reptile is eating a 40% dive kick combo. Noob is even. Sonya can get in a lot better than Noob keeping her out. EX Cartwheel also blows up anything noob does from 1/4-1/2 screen away. Its a solid 5-5 MU imo. Reptile does not beat Raiden. Raiden does lose to Sonya. Raiden doesn't have many bad MUs but Sonya is one of them. Kabal is a 4-6 MU but i dont think its her worst. At least Sonya can trap Kabal in the corner if Kabal is doing IAGB. Sonya can also ex cartwheel through his zoning. Yes its a bad MU but freddy and kenshi is much worse.

Kitana/sonya is a solid 5-5. Kitana zoning isnt good enough to change the MU. Solid 5-5

No way Mileena is even with Sonya. Sonya kills Mileena. Sonya dive kick/EX cartwheel will blow up Mileenas D+4 zoning tool. Sonya is one of Mileenas worst Matchups imo. Sonya can also punish Mileena really bad for anything Mileena does.
Obviously you have a lot more offline experience than I do (because I have zero offline experience) so would you please tell me your inputs in the Freddy, Kenshi, Kabal and Mileena matchups? These are the ones I have the hardest time understanding your oppinions. I really don't understand how Freddy and Kenshi are harder than Kabal, and how Sonya is the hardest for Mileena (especially when there are chars with much better counter zoning options than Sonya).
 

Death

Noob
Death what do you use to punish mileena telekick and roll with sonya?
For Mileenas roll i use the combo in foxys guide. MS B+2, NJP, slight dash kiss divekick 21~cartwheel, B+21F+2 112~MS. Its around 40%. Big punish for roll. For EX telekick its D+1 cartwheel combo. For regular telekick. Sometimes NJ Punch works. Im still trying to find a consistent combo for regular telekick. Standing Jabs is a safe bet ending in MS mixups.
 

Death

Noob
Obviously you have a lot more offline experience than I do (because I have zero offline experience) so would you please tell me your inputs in the Freddy, Kenshi, Kabal and Mileena matchups? These are the ones I have the hardest time understanding your oppinions. I really don't understand how Freddy and Kenshi are harder than Kabal, and how Sonya is the hardest for Mileena (especially when there are chars with much better counter zoning options than Sonya).
The reason why I think Kabal isnt as bad is because Kabal will corner himself if he does IAGB and Sonya corner game is insane. Can make the matchup winnable. Sonya can also punish Kabals Nomad dash on block for 50-55%. She can also Armor through his projectiles from 1/4-1/2 screen away. Its still a tough MU though just not her worse imo.

Kenshi is really bad. Keep in mind. Kenshi is 100x better offline. Yeah Sonya can armor through kenshi zoning but kenshi will always have meter and he has more armored moves himself. He can blow sonya up with ex shoulder, ex risking karma and ex teleflurry. Once sonya is in he will always have breaker as well. One shoulder charge is brutal and sonya has to go through the whole gauntlet again. Its very very bad for sonya.

Freddy. This one i dont know for sure. I never ran this MU offline. I ran it alot with M2dave online and it felt really terrible. I couldnt really move in the MU cuz of freddys frametraps. This MU felt real bad. I had to counterpick with Mileena to have success vs Freddy. But keep in mind I NEVER ran this MU offline so it could be different.

Sonya beats Mileena 6-4. Mileenas zoning isnt good enough to keep sonya out. If mileena gets a blocked roll or does anything risky Sonya can blow it up. Mileena also has no armor so she can armor out of anything sonya does up close. Sonya can also dive kick Mileenas D+4 or ex cartwheel it for consistentcy. Sonya can also armor through Mileenas zoning with ex cartwheel.

Sindel- That is interseting. Like Freddy when i fight Mr mils sindel online i had to use Mileena as a counter pick. That MU didnt feel too good either. But like freddy it was only fought online. Ill have to run those MUs offline to see what i think it is.

But as of now I do think Kenshi, Freddy and Kabal are sonyas only bad MUs. Sindel possibly could be a bad MU but 5-5 for now.
 
The reason why I think Kabal isnt as bad is because Kabal will corner himself if he does IAGB and Sonya corner game is insane. Can make the matchup winnable. Sonya can also punish Kabals Nomad dash on block for 50-55%. She can also Armor through his projectiles from 1/4-1/2 screen away. Its still a tough MU though just not her worse imo.

Kenshi is really bad. Keep in mind. Kenshi is 100x better offline. Yeah Sonya can armor through kenshi zoning but kenshi will always have meter and he has more armored moves himself. He can blow sonya up with ex shoulder, ex risking karma and ex teleflurry. Once sonya is in he will always have breaker as well. One shoulder charge is brutal and sonya has to go through the whole gauntlet again. Its very very bad for sonya.

Freddy. This one i dont know for sure. I never ran this MU offline. I ran it alot with M2dave online and it felt really terrible. I couldnt really move in the MU cuz of freddys frametraps. This MU felt real bad. I had to counterpick with Mileena to have success vs Freddy. But keep in mind I NEVER ran this MU offline so it could be different.

Sonya beats Mileena 6-4. Mileenas zoning isnt good enough to keep sonya out. If mileena gets a blocked roll or does anything risky Sonya can blow it up. Mileena also has no armor so she can armor out of anything sonya does up close. Sonya can also dive kick Mileenas D+4 or ex cartwheel it for consistentcy. Sonya can also armor through Mileenas zoning with ex cartwheel.

Sindel- That is interseting. Like Freddy when i fight Mr mils sindel online i had to use Mileena as a counter pick. That MU didnt feel too good either. But like freddy it was only fought online. Ill have to run those MUs offline to see what i think it is.

But as of now I do think Kenshi, Freddy and Kabal are sonyas only bad MUs. Sindel possibly could be a bad MU but 5-5 for now.
Sindel is interesting, I think. Like Mileena, she has no armor, but her zoning is just too good. I played a very good Sindel online yesterday (connection was very nice. I could anti air jab, so it was almost as good as online). I played two matches using Sonya. Lost the first one, won the second. But in the second I just got up close and stayed there ultil she was finished. I think it could be a 5-5, just not sure. What annoyes me about Sindel is her throw. It puts Sonya back at full screen.

But as you said, like Kabal, Sindel kinda corners herself while zoning. And again, she has no armor.

What about Stryker? Do you have offline experience against him?