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Match-up Discussion Sonya Blade Matchup Discussion Thread

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I realize that there might be a matchup thread already in this forum, but the point of this thread is to discuss matchups to make the Matchup Chart as accurate as possible.

The Matchup Chart thread:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3075-Mortal-Kombat-(2011)-Matchup-Chart

When you discuss or list what you think the matchups are, please do so in alphabetical order. Also, they should be listed in either whole numbers or .5 notations.

The current Matchup Chart for Sonya Blade is as follows:
5-5 vs Baraka
4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
4-6 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
5-5 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
4-6 vs Mileena
4-6 vs Nightwolf
3-7 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
4-6 vs Sektor
4-6 vs Shang Tsung
7-3 vs Sheeva
4-6 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
4-6 vs Stryker
4-6 vs Sub-Zero


Agree? Disagree? DISCUSS!
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Here's my opinion on the match ups, I'll run this by Morty to so he can give you his input. Hes been playing Sonya since launch so he knows all of her strengths/weaknesses.

The current Matchup Chart for Sonya Blade is as follows:
5-5 vs Baraka
4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
6-4 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
5-5 vs Kitana
6-4 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
4-6 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
5-5 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
6-4 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
4-6 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Stryker
3-7 vs Sub-Zero

Edit: Morty says hes going to correct some of this today.
 
Here are my opinions on matchups. Feel free to disagree, make your points and discuss. I am really only going to provide my opinion on characters I feel I have enough matchup experience with.

5-5 vs Baraka - I don't have enough matchup experience to really say, but my gut tells me this could be changed. (Left chart as is)

4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero - I don't have enough experience with this matchup to form an opinion. Sonya bullies low very well which means CSZ probably will not be getting many Ice-Parries off. I think this one probably comes down to how well Sonya can contain the CSZ dive-kicks. (left chart as is)

4-6 vs Cyrax - Cyrax controls a lot of space with bombs and net. You really have to maneuver around this well and pick your spots. Once Sonya gets in you really have to maintain constant pressure and try to prevent Cyrax from dropping a close bomb and defending. On Cyrax's Wake-Up, Sonya has to create a little bit of space if she wants to punish wake-up attempts, or simply stay in his face and block which allows him to escape wake-up pressure with meter. Because of the amount of damage Cyrax currently gets from combo's I feel that this is currently in Cyrax's favor. Sonya's Ex-Cartwheel can pass through both a bomb and a net on startup which can be useful.

5-5 vs Ermac - This matchup really comes down to dash blocking appropriately and keeping Ermac honest on wake-up.

xxx vs Freddy Krueger

5-5 vs Jade - I don't have enough experience in this matchup to say, perhaps Wonderchef could chime in since he plays Krayzie Bone's Jade? (left chart as is)

6-4 vs Jax - I don't have enough experience in this matchup to really say. Sonya can lower her hitbox to nullify the dash punch. Don't get cornered. (left chart as is)

5-5 vs Johnny Cage - This matchup comes down to whoever can get the other person in frame traps first. Sonya has d4; Cage has f3,2. If Cages f3,2 is timed appropriately it can stuff the d4 forcing Sonya to defend appropriately and poke her way out of pressure. Sonya can do the same with ms cancels.

4-6 vs Kabal - Kabal's instant-air gas ball and sawblade zoning really puts this match in Kabal's favor. You have to work your way in which can be very difficult. Sonya has ms xx 2 which can somewhat force her way in under the ia gas-balls. You have to be cautious on Kabal's wake-up, but so does every other character.

4-6 vs Kano - Keepaway Kano that forces you to dash block all day and uses the b112 string when close can be difficult to deal with, especially if they are using the command grab for frame-advantage to escape and re-setup their zone game.

xxx vs Kenshi -

5-5 vs Kitana - This matchup comes down to Kitana d1 vs. Sonya d4. Sonya needs to dash and crouch under the fans, get good reads on Kitana's f3 xx cutter, f3,2 and d1 xx Cutter. When Sonya has scored a knockdown, Kitana's wake-up options are not very threatening allowing you to maintain pressure. This is a really good matchup that comes down to good spacing.

5-5 vs Kung Lao - I actually feel that Sonya deals with Kung Lao well. Sonya will primarily be crouch blocking which will cause Kung Lao's go-to strings to whiff because they hit high. Against the low hat block-strings, Sonya can d1 to break-up pressure easily after a blocked low hat (I have tested punishing the d1 with spin, and I do not think it is possible since her d1 is 6 frames). The primary threat to Sonya in this matchup if you are crouch blocking would be overheads, and all of Kung Lao's overheads are punishable and can be fuzzy-guarded. Sonya has a 7-frame uppercut with a good hitbox, so Kung Lao should never get a regular teleport off.

5-5 vs Liu Kang -

4.5-5.5 vs Mileena - I agree that this seems to be one of Sonya's more difficult matchups. In theory she should be able to dive-kick on the d4, but I don't seem to make that happen. Sonya also has the benefit of being able to jump kick xx air-throw to punish the lowered hitbox which is more than most characters get. Sonya does not get full punish against blocked dive-kicks or rolls, but can get around 20-25% with a modified combo.

5-5 vs Nightwolf - I don't have much reason to believe that this matchup is in Nightwolf's favor. Sonya's offense is generated from low attacks which makes Nightwolf's Shoulder Charge less useful as a tool. Sonya has a 6-frame d1 which should allow her to escape most of Nightwolf's frame-traps by breaking up pressure.

4-6 vs Noob Saibot - I don't think this match-up is a 3-7, but does feel like it is Noob Saibot's favor. Once Sonya is within d4 range, she should be able to nullify the up-kicks better than most characters can. You have to fight your way around shadow-tackles with push block first though.

6-4 vs Quan Chi -

5.5-4.5 vs Raiden - Sonya is one of the few characters that can actually punish Raiden's teleport with full combo (jump back dive kick >> combo) if you're looking for it. Sonya can poke her way out of Raiden's block strings with d1 easily enough. This matchup takes practice, but eventually becomes very winnable when you are using your tools correctly. Slight advantage for Sonya.

xxx vs Rain

4-6 vs Reptile - Slow orb covers reptiles command dash allowing Reptile to maintain pressure. This matchup comes down to good spacing, Sonya needs to maintain a position where she is close enough to cause the command dash to collide with Sonya on block (and punish) and close enough to make Reptile be fearful of using regular orbs. Reptiles enhanced orbs have faster startup which can make jumping in on Reptile very risky because he gets a full combo. Try to get Reptile to spend all of his meter then pursue with jump-ins since he does not have great anti-air options or fast normals.

5-5 vs Scorpion -

5-5 vs Sektor - Sektor has to spend meter in situations he would otherwise have to take risks. When Sektor can cancel attack strings into a front or back up missile I think this chart could change, but I currently feel this matchup is even.

4-6 vs Shang Tsung - Up-Skulls and Air Skulls dictate Sonya's movement. Shang Tsung can make it very difficult for Sonya to move forward, and if he gets Sonya to block a close skull this sets him up for a free safe-jump into a mix-up that can be ended in another blocked up-skull that leaves Shang Tsung at slight advantage. If Shang Tsung ends his block strings into an air-skull you can technically attempt to punish him, but risk getting hit by the air-skull which sets Shang Tsung up for more pressure. Sonya is forced to take a lot of risks in this matchup to win.

6-4 vs Sheeva - This matchup is not a 7-3. Sheeva has some very nasty block traps with her command grabs that leave her at +1. Her normals are slow, but she can force you to guess. It isn't worth it to pressure Sheeva on wake-up because the ex-command grab will beat anything Sonya can do if you are pressing buttons, and on block leaves Sheeva is at +1. It is risky to attempt to beat Sheeva's air-stomp because it is guide-able. At best Sonya gets a jump back kick then a grounded combo for maybe 20-25%, or jump back kick air-throw for 15% (this assumes Sheeva is using the stomp that lands above you).

4-6 vs Sindel - Sindel's zoning can be very tough to deal with. Once you find your way in with Sonya you have to maintain pressure and be aware of the overhead flip kick.

xxx vs Skarlet -

5-5 vs Smoke -

6-4 vs Stryker - This is not a 4-6 in Stryker's favor. Sonya can dash and crouch under Strykers gun zoning. Once Sonya is in on Stryker she can pressure him constantly. Stryker has to spend meter on wake-up to create a neutral situation, and does not really have any fast enough mid-hitting strings to punish Sonya for much of anything.

4-6 vs Sub-Zero - Ice-clone dictates the pace of this match and can be very difficult to work around. Sonya's rings have fast recovery so she should be able to get a few of these off within enough time to safely block an ice-ball. If the Sub-Zero is ending all of their block strings into ice-clone it can be very difficult to generate an offense. Ex Cartwheel will break an ice-clone and go through an ice-ball on start-up, but if Sub-Zero has good spacing this can be irrelevant.
 
I've been thinking CBZ was definitely in Sonya's favor. Kisses can keep both dive kicks (shoot ring, preemptive kiss) and parrys in check, and Sonya's poke game is light-years beyond cybers. CBZ has no chance of a naked freeze without getting pummeled by rings, and arc kick can hit dive kicks from time to time depending on angle (and weather, oh appease us dear elder gods, grant us this trade in our favor)

Just my .02 though.


@Riu48: Yea I don't understand why people think that matchup is bad. Its not ideal, but its not really lopsided either, just kinda boring because you'll be getting a lot of rings off
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
4-6 vs Sub-Zero - Ice-clone dictates the pace of this match and can be very difficult to work around. Sonya's rings have fast recovery so she should be able to get a few of these off within enough time to safely block an ice-ball. If the Sub-Zero is ending all of their block strings into ice-clone it can be very difficult to generate an offense. Ex Cartwheel will break an ice-clone and go through an ice-ball on start-up, but if Sub-Zero has good spacing this can be irrelevant.
Sub-Zero doesn't have to attempt trades with sonya, he can punish her regular projectile on reaction with the slide. I think Sonya is one of Sub's best matchups, along with Kano.

I think 6-4 is very generous to Sonya. Sub winning 7-3 wouldn't be unrealistic.
 

bipolar_shango

" Bros before Hoes"
I think the Sonya vs Subzero match-up is better represented by 4.5 - 5.5 . The only time the match becomes difficult is when Sonya is in the corner.(any experienced player can guard against this most of the time) It is obviously easier for characters like Raiden, Cyrax, CSZ, Kunglao to get around this but their teleports can be punished if its anticipated(Yes, i know its hard to punish Raiden's).

################################################
Mid-stage options against clone
- Stay "D+4" distance from the clone to prevent him from moving forward (mash D+4 if he tries to gain ground *to ultimately corner you*).
- Stay "D+4" distance & use Rings/ex Rings (time rings if not he will punish with slide or worse, ex-slide you into the clone and combo you :( . I normally just hold block and tap back continuously then press Forward+2 for rings/fireball when Subzero releases block or tries to advance.
- With super-perfect timing you can go over the clone & subzero when subzero is standing directly inline with the clone with Arc kick.(not easy in a real match)
- You can use kiss when subzero tries to walk forward.
- And of course there is always the ex-cartwheel!!

#################################################
In the corner, You're SCREWED! But the same can be said when fighting against any other character in the game.


....Subzero's ice-ball is not a factor in this match its just too slow. :bigsmile:
 
6-4 vs Stryker - This is not a 4-6 in Stryker's favor. Sonya can dash and crouch under Strykers gun zoning. Once Sonya is in on Stryker she can pressure him constantly. Stryker has to spend meter on wake-up to create a neutral situation, and does not really have any fast enough mid-hitting strings to punish Sonya for much of anything.
Stryker vs Sonya is 5.5-4.5 or 5-5 imo. It's very similar to the Jax matchup.

Grenade stops Sonya's flying kick/dive kick shenanigans btw. People need to stop thinking all that Stryker has is a gun lol. He has full air control + a high crush that sends you full screen + decent combos + some of the best footsies in the game.


MortySeinfeld said:
Stryker has to spend meter on wake-up to create a neutral situation
It's not a "neutral situation". EN Roll Toss sends you flying across the screen where I can lock Sonya down with grenades and gun cancels or make it very difficult for her to approach me without taking chip damage (while I build tons of meter). Once you get back in I can breaker or EN roll toss again to make you start over. It can get very frustrating for Sonya and Jax tbh.

I honestly think Stryker vs Johnny Cage is 4-6 or 5-5. So for me there's no way that Jax and Sonya have a 6-4 advantage over Stryker. They're basically watered down versions of Johnny Cage.

And I find Kitana a lot scarier up close than Sonya because her strings seem to constantly stuff EN Roll Toss + she can actually zone from far away unlike Sonya.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
5-5 vs Baraka - From playing Mustards Baraka, Gotta be careful with divekicks
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero - Kiss > Parry
5-5 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal - I dont see why people think Kabal is hard? MSf1 lower her under iAF and a jump back divekick will always punish his F32 string
6-4 vs Kano - he doesnt actually have anything threatening other than a ball
xxx vs Kenshi
6-4 vs Kitana - Same reason as the kabal matchup, just requires timing
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
6-4 vs Mileena - Both have the same D4, but sonya doesnt need hers much anyway, Divekick > Mileenas D4
5-5 vs Nightwolf - from playing ketchups nightwolf. Arc kick is helpful Sonya wins up close, but its hard to get near.
3-7 vs Noob Saibot - Obvious reasons
6-4 vs Quan Chi
5-5 vs Raiden - Punish teleport pokes with a divekick, then she basically forces raiden to block after a teleport
xxx vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile - Divekick over them forceballs
5-5 vs Scorpion
4-6 vs Sektor
4-6 vs Shang Tsung
7-3 vs Sheeva
4-6 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
4-6 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero - you can shoot back alot, most of the time a trade is in favour of sonya + it can bait a slide, just time shots well, once you're in her cant do much
 
Hey Foxy, your Sonya completely destroyed me lol. To the point that you made me rethink the matchup. Though it may be my lack of experience vs good Sonya players that know how to use her.

You're the best player I've fought online by far.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Yeah, I definitely didn't think Sonya was as good as I now think her to be. Foxy's Sonya beats my Sub like a drum and Sub's tools don't nullify Sonya's as much as I thought they did/would. She has great zoning against Sub from the right screen distance and great pressure when she gets in. Definitely see it differently now.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
I have some more nasty stuff to show off once people start respecting the military stance, but atm its just 100% damage because everybody tries to interupt it.

Updated my matchup list too
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Why are we using Online matches to determine whether or not Sonya is good in certain match ups...
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
Yeah, I definitely didn't think Sonya was as good as I now think her to be. Foxy's Sonya beats my Sub like a drum and Sub's tools don't nullify Sonya's as much as I thought they did/would. She has great zoning against Sub from the right screen distance and great pressure when she gets in. Definitely see it differently now.
It seems on paper SZ can keep her out. Can you explain more?
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
It seems on paper SZ can keep her out. Can you explain more?
Sub-Zero doesn't beat her in a zoning war. He has to stay around halfscreen distance to slide punish projectiles. He won 't get many trades outside of ex freeze, too, so he has to use meter to get in a lot of the time. If he could run away from Sonya as he can Cage, sure, it would be in his favour, but Sonya's projectile doesn't suck like his, so she can get a lifelead with her rings and then make Sub come to her. That's why it's not really lopsided in Sub's favour. The Sonya just has to play it right.
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
Sub-Zero doesn't beat her in a zoning war. He has to stay around halfscreen distance to slide punish projectiles. He won 't get many trades outside of ex freeze, too, so he has to use meter to get in a lot of the time. If he could run away from Sonya as he can Cage, sure, it would be in his favour, but Sonya's projectile doesn't suck like his, so she can get a lifelead with her rings and then make Sub come to her. That's why it's not really lopsided in Sub's favour. The Sonya just has to play it right.
That's what I was thinking, that Sub can just clone and run away the entire time. So projectiles cause him to move around and that's when it comes in his favor. Awesome, thanks
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
That's what I was thinking, that Sub can just clone and run away the entire time. So projectiles cause him to move around and that's when it comes in his favor. Awesome, thanks
Sonya has better offensive tools than Sub-Zero, so him having to go to her will obviously cause him problems. Him having to chase her down does not make the matchup in his favour.
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
5.5-4.5 vs Raiden - Sonya is one of the few characters that can actually punish Raiden's teleport with full combo (jump back dive kick >> combo) if you're looking for it. Sonya can poke her way out of Raiden's block strings with d1 easily enough. This matchup takes practice, but eventually becomes very winnable when you are using your tools correctly. Slight advantage for Sonya.
What strings can be interupted? B3, 1, 2 cannot be interupted w/D1
 

bipolar_shango

" Bros before Hoes"
I really enjoyed watching Riu48's SONYA blowup Tom Bradys SUBZERO yesterday(Offline & Two High level players that main those characters). I think it proves that though the match-up is a bit challenging for Sonya, it is not as hard/bad as most people think. *Next match-up myth to bust Subzero vs Cyber-Sub* :)
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
I really enjoyed watching Riu48's SONYA blowup Tom Bradys SUBZERO yesterday(Offline & Two High level players that main those characters). I think it proves that though the match-up is a bit challenging for Sonya, it is not as hard/bad as most people think. *Next match-up myth to bust Subzero vs Cyber-Sub* :)
Not many people know the Sonya matchup yet, either. Once people realise how much she has, she will be placed in the top tier, I believe.