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Match Footage - Sub-Zero SonicFox Debuts his Cryomancer

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
I don't know about all of you but I openly welcome our new frosty overlord. Good thing salt inhibits freezing, otherwise everyone's face would be frozen from all those tears after feeling the chill of despair.

Really though, it's nice NRS finally gave this character something really strong in a patch, after years of nerfing.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
I was kind of leaning that way. But what would the nerf be? Slower? More negative?
I'd prefer to have it slower, but either of them is fine really. now that you can break out of gm's corner with armor.

I think you're really overestimating those things in comparison to what the other mkx characters could do but I like you so I'll just agree to disagree.
ohh <3

First of all, Grandmaster has all of those things. And the problem was that Cryo was just plain worse at all of them.

40%+ for 1 bar might sound good on paper, but if you had to get that damage from mids and highs that had median frames of anywhere between -3 to -9 on block, you would be calling bullshit on people telling you can open people up with such normals.

And about that overhead, it's still -13 on block with no clone to shield it in Cryo. On top of that, getting optimal damage from it midscreen is now extremely finicky due to variable hit reactions on crouching opponents (y'know, the entire reason you would want to check someone with an overhead in the first place?) between different characters making it impractical, if not outright impossible, to follow up with F42 Grab.

For the record, I'm not trying to downplay, and take this all from me as someone who isn't even a Sub main, I think Cryo is a very good variation now, but when it was failing to do its job, that being to provide alternative offense to Grandmaster without relying on the presence of clone, to say "it was already fine" is just flat out logistically wrong.
cryo did worse than gm because gm has always been broken, no other reason.

I don't get your second point, cryo had (and still does have) 50/50s, so what about the mids?

I agree that the b2 should be more consistent, but everything else about it is complete nonsense: it has insane air control, it has insane space control for footsies, you can combo off of it, it hits overhead, it has great recovery, you can't react to it and it's an hard punish even up close, safe with clone. that normal ain't fair.

he was fine.
 
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SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
^Pick Kitana. Slide over to Mournful. Stack bars. Bait jumps and slides. Make him burn his bars. You can full combo punish mid screen iceballs used in the neutral. Once you have a hit you literally choose where to throw him. You can armor through ex ice ball with two of her Exspecials. Furthermore, counter-zoning. Space control. Korean backslashes. D3, d1 b3 b4. B2.

Shall I continue?
 

Lokheit

Noob
Just here to remind everyone that Cryo's grab is duckable (like Erron's), so it has more counters than with most grapplers.

But yeah the character is now really fun, execution got high (the reason you found many of them online before is because the old gameplay featured A-B-C combos linking F421+3 multiple times, online warriors are probably going in a different direction like Ninjutsu and similar characters now, so you won't be seeing him so much now if that's what you're worried about) and B2 isn't as good for him as it used to be, but he's really fun to play. Still worse neutral than many characters and some stuff got a bit more negative but the mind games are real. I was surprised as this wasn't the buffs I expected but having a blast (and a bit of pain in my thumbs too lol).

I always corrected people calling him an offensive character because he wasn't one (he was a punisher and a bad one at that, going full offense rush with him was a bad idea) but now he is an offensive character for real.

To be honest I think SZ could be a "Kotal style" character in that all of his variations are going to be seen in tournaments to some extent without neccessarily being at the absolute top of the tier list. Before UB and Cryo were abysmal so this is great (too bad my other character, Kenshi, won't be able to say the same). In fact I think Cryo could be his 3rd best variation or tied for 2nd :p

Good to see Sonic using him, he's going to kick some ass, this video was without getting used to the whole toolset and muscle memory (many dropped B12 and D1 juggles and still doing great) so it's going to be really good and the character now fits his usual mindset during games for what I've seen of him in tournaments (btw, if you read this, try finishing your corner combos with 111grab instead of B12 for a bit more damage).
 
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Karma

Soul Caliber, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, and SF.
Fox is a savage with those tick throws he pulled off. Bravo!
 

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
I really want to get my hands on the character at some point. I see way too many options into tick, and safe tick evasion setups to go along with the whole "just duck it" mindset.

Sub now technically has 2 combo starting lows because of command grab. Rush down is going to be very scary once optimized.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
cryo did worse than gm because gm has always been broken, no other reason.

I don't get your second point, cryo had (and still does have) 50/50s, so what about the mids?

I agree that the b2 should be more consistent, but everything else about it is complete nonsense: it has insane air control, it has insane space control for footsies, you can combo off of it, it hits overhead, it has great recovery, you can't react to it and it's an hard punish even up close, safe with clone. that normal ain't fair.

he was fine.
His 50/50s in Cryo were nothing to write home about no matter what way you slice it. Again, the OH was always unsafe in the variation, and you couldn't launch from the low without meter except vs females, and even then it was still unsafe.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
His 50/50s in Cryo were nothing to write home about no matter what way you slice it. Again, the OH was always unsafe in the variation, and you couldn't launch from the low without meter except vs females, and even then it was still unsafe.
Sub's oh is as unsafe as prepatch BS's projectile, witch I'd personally feel ashamed to call unsafe in public.

And cryo's hammer is also safe.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Sub's oh is as unsafe as prepatch BS's projectile, witch I'd personally feel ashamed to call unsafe in public.

And cryo's hammer is also safe.
If -13 is safe to you then Bo Rai Cho has a safe Monkey Flip lol.

(and believe me, I wish it was...)
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
The one thing I learned from one hour of gameplay at the highest level was how horribly reactable and punishable that sub b2 is.

MY ASS.

Piece of shit broken crap and still gets downplayed. How the hell do you have the gall to defend that crap after everyone can clearly see the opposite is beyond common sense.

And people complain about reptile b2?!! Fine swap them then, give reptile subs b2 and viceversa and I guarantee everyone will be shitting bricks in a day.
 
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