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Match-up Discussion Solomon Grundy Matchup Thread

JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Espio said:
Hello all, so I'm looking for Grundy experience with my Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl if anybody's interested.

I haven't played this match up with Hawkgirl against a serious Grundy main since probably July and only a tiny bit ever with Martian Manhunter.

My PSN is Espio872 :).
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Are you in the UK? I'd like to play the Hawkgirl match, only played one and got blown up, played a few MMH's but none of them seemed to know the character very well.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
JTB123 said:
Are you in the UK? I'd like to play the Hawkgirl match, only played one and got blown up, played a few MMH's but none of them seemed to know the character very well.
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Unfortunately, no I'm a Michigan native in the States.

Hawkgirl is a rather tricky match up for Grundy in my opinion, but I think people should use more chip or health trait, that could be a huge help...especially since Grundy outdamages her heavily even without the traits active.


Good Martian Manhunters are hard to find it seems, really fun character though.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Espio said:
Unfortunately, no I'm a Michigan native in the States.

Hawkgirl is a rather tricky match up for Grundy in my opinion, but I think people should use more chip or health trait, that could be a huge help...especially since Grundy outdamages her heavily even without the traits active.


Good Martian Manhunters are hard to find it seems, really fun character though.
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HG can literally..... seriously you shoudl try this...... literally MC on reaction to every WC for free. That alone makes this matchup really really hard. If you're really good, you can also MB on a most of a read and always stay safe and take 23% damage.
You can play so basic against Grundy with her, just reacting and basically making him have to dash in (where your d1 stuffs everything) and play like a wild person.

The flying stuff isn't that big of a deal... its the fact that she takes 1/4 life every time I use my best tool.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
NRF CharlieMurphy said:
HG can literally..... seriously you shoudl try this...... literally MC on reaction to every WC for free. That alone makes this matchup really really hard. If you're really good, you can also MB on a most of a read and always stay safe and take 23% damage.
You can play so basic against Grundy with her, just reacting and basically making him have to dash in (where your d1 stuffs everything) and play like a wild person.

The flying stuff isn't that big of a deal... its the fact that she takes 1/4 life every time I use my best tool.
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That's not really a good idea in my opinion, especially if you're dealing with someone who can punish mace charge with neutral jump or cancelling WC into uppercut etc. Grundy like every character has multiple answers, but I almost never see anyone use them. MB mace charge requires meter so it's not like she can constantly throw it out so you can make a read on WC cancelling to full combo punish her.

Back 2, 3 is how I blow up walking corpse when Grundy is close most of the time, it does more damage for no meter. She beats him bad without playing flow chart and I wouldn't adopt the strategy because it promotes bad habits and Grundy does have things he can do to counter constant mace charge spam whether he's doing walking corpse or not, at least three things that net him good damage and allow him to get a trait grab to cut down on chip damage or allow her attacks to do less damage.


I'm just looking for more experience in the match up as while I know how to play it already, I haven't played it in ages. And I've barely played it at all with Martian Manhunter.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Espio said:
That's not really a good idea in my opinion, especially if you're dealing with someone who can punish mace charge with neutral jump or cancelling WC into uppercut etc. Grundy like every character has multiple answers, but I almost never see anyone use them. MB mace charge requires meter so it's not like she can constantly throw it out so you can make a read on WC cancelling to full combo punish her.

Back 2, 3 is how I blow up walking corpse when Grundy is close most of the time, it does more damage for no meter. She beats him bad without playing flow chart and I wouldn't adopt the strategy because it promotes bad habits and Grundy does have things he can do to counter constant mace charge spam whether he's doing walking corpse or not, at least three things that net him good damage and allow him to get a trait grab to cut down on chip damage or allow her attacks to do less damage.


I'm just looking for more experience in the match up as while I know how to play it already, I haven't played it in ages. And I've barely played it at all with Martian Manhunter.
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On reaction. Not randomly.
Even if I cancel.... the MB OH will usualy bop me for holding down to block.

You can react SO late in his animation and it'll whiff, and even if he does cancel, he can't do anything about it barring something extremely lucky. Doing strings will get you blown up... doing something that I can't punish on hit/block is what beats WCC.

There is nothing flowchart about beating my best tool with one move. You can also Wing Evade 3 it on reaction for some more free damage.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
NRF CharlieMurphy said:
On reaction. Not randomly.
Even if I cancel.... the MB OH will usualy bop me for holding down to block.

You can react SO late in his animation and it'll whiff, and even if he does cancel, he can't do anything about it barring something extremely lucky. Doing strings will get you blown up... doing something that I can't punish on hit/block is what beats WCC.

There is nothing flowchart about beating my best tool with one move. You can also Wing Evade 3 it on reaction for some more free damage.
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I'm not disagreeing that you can do it on reaction, I'm just saying that I wouldn't do it every time he does walking corpse.

Uppercut is fast enough to punish regular mace charge if you cancel into that. Admiral Augustus used this when we used to play and if he scouted mace charge got consistent results with the punish.

Wing evade 3 is really good against armor in general, I agree. It even goes through people and can cross you up to the other side of your opponent if spaced correctly.

We both agree she has tons of options to deal with walking corpse, whether its strings like (back 2, 3) or her specials (wing evade and mace charge).
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Espio said:
I'm not disagreeing that you can do it on reaction, I'm just saying that I wouldn't do it every time he does walking corpse.

Uppercut is fast enough to punish regular mace charge if you cancel into that. Admiral Augustus used this when we used to play and if he scouted mace charge got consistent results with the punish.

Wing evade 3 is really good against armor in general, I agree. It even goes through people and can cross you up to the other side of your opponent if spaced correctly.

We both agree she has tons of options to deal with walking corpse, whether its strings like (back 2, 3) or her specials (wing evade and mace charge).
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She really only needs that mace charge tho. Why risk the string when the mace charge will blow it up everytime?
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
LEGEND AK Harold

My thoughts on the Flash Grundy MU.

I feel that in any grounded scenario, grundy has the footsie advantage. Flash has to commit to strings from range that can be WCC. On knockdown, Grundy can air grab you out of f3 set up if you go the crossover tech.

But just like most 5-5 MU, its a momentum game. Flash can keep that momentum going easily with a few good reads. Im more interested in hearing from Harold and Tyrant.
 
ll Nooby ll

ll Nooby ll

To Live is to Die
Here's something cool I found that really helps against Aquamans trait. When he gets locked into EX Swamp Hands and activates trait. You can do a WCC and then do a grab and you get full damage off the grab instead of having it be scaled. This takes advantage of how whiffing moves reset the combo in this game.
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Haven't had chance to really test this as I don't play a Batman regularly but I've been trying out using MB back 3 against his jump ins whenever I come across a Batman online. While probably not necessary offline, I did find this worked very well online. You can get some very good damage:

MB-B3, J3, 11 Health Trait = 42%
MB-B3, J3, 1 MBSW, J2B1, Health Trait = 64%

The swamp hands combo builds around 80% of that second bar back too, I'd really like to play Batman offline a lot as it seems like his jump 2 wouldn't be as much of a problem offline.
 
ll Nooby ll

ll Nooby ll

To Live is to Die
Here's something cool against Supermans who spam Rising Grab on their wake up. After doing an AA Grab you can dash up and do a meaty 3. If the RG Supes goes over Grundy and it perfectly times your 112 to trip guard when he lands. If he tries to do other wake-ups you can do 3~WCC and punish. Once he starts respecting 3, you can go 32 which can mixup Triat grab and EX Cleaver. 32 is also safe if he does RG. Also 3 is about 0 on block when done as a meaty. So you can try for 3 into D2 shenanigans.
The timing for EX Walking Corpse would be Grave Rot, WCC, then 3.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
JTB123 said:
*snip*
MB-B3, J3, 1 MBSW, J2B1, Health Trait = 64%
*snip*
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Good to remind oneself about armored anti-airs, although this combo can be replaced with what is basically a part of BGB BnB combo:
[MB]B3, J2, b1~[MB]Swamp hands, J2b1; 4
Not essential, but does a bit more damage, 69%. Bonus point for being useful in other situations so you don't have to get used to variations of the combo for different cases.
Your meterless followup looks pretty optimized to me though :)
Also I was trying to do variations of this part the other day and sometimes I feel that this one is easier to pull off than with J3 into 1~[MB]SH.
 
fr stack

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
ll Nooby ll said:
Here's something cool I found that really helps against Aquamans trait. When he gets locked into EX Swamp Hands and activates trait. You can do a WCC and then do a grab and you get full damage off the grab instead of having it be scaled. This takes advantage of how whiffing moves reset the combo in this game.
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also u could try MB grave rot then WCC it still works , or at least u can dash then grave rot ... if u grave rot then dash its less damage , only one dash btw
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Curious to see what you guys think about Green Lantern, after doing some digging on some of the setups he has I was actually able to take games off the best GL I've played on PSN. Very annoying that you can't interrupt some of his crap online and it's very frustrating to not have a wake up come out as instead of taking 50% you eat another 30 something. Also, I've heard people say that his turbine smash is fully punishable on block. Now on a great connection I might go as far as to say you can just WCC on reaction, but online because of the distance it creates on block it is pretty much completely safe. Dash up throw is the best I've got so if I'm missing something here please let me know.

And while I'm at it, Killer Frost, I don't even know where to begin. Went 9 games in a row down before taking any off the player I just fought. And that slide is some bullshit online, I just couldn't guess right to save my life and even when I did it didn't help much. This was the first time I'd fought a decent Killer Frost though so hopefully I will get better. Any info for this match would be appreciated.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
JTB123 said:
Also, I've heard people say that his turbine smash is fully punishable on block. Now on a great connection I might go as far as to say you can just WCC on reaction, but online because of the distance it creates on block it is pretty much completely safe. Dash up throw is the best I've got so if I'm missing something here please let me know.
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Interestingly, the distance it creates actually differs, although I'm yet to find out why is that (it's definitely not just something random). In some cases it's just enough for you to immediately 2~Hands[MB] him, sometimes it leaves you further though.
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Barrogh said:
Interestingly, the distance it creates actually differs, although I'm yet to find out why is that (it's definitely not just something random). In some cases it's just enough for you to immediately 2~Hands[MB] him, sometimes it leaves you further though.
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Just tested this a little and I had never noticed that before. This is pretty interesting, if he does it close then 2 MB hands is a straight up punish which is just lovely :) Seems to leave him further away when he does it from longer range, going to see if I can find out what causes the distance.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
JTB123 said:
Just tested this a little and I had never noticed that before. This is pretty interesting, if he does it close then 2 MB hands is a straight up punish which is just lovely :) Seems to leave him further away when he does it from longer range, going to see if I can find out what causes the distance.
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Well, I didn't dig deep enough, in fact I was just trying to punish dummy's reversal, and indeed, it looks to me that point-blank turbine is what gives you punish through 2~. The problem is, you probably won't be turbined from that range by anyone :D
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Did some more testing and it is dependent on the distance that the GL does the turbine smash from. At max range none of Grundy's normals are in range, they can even jump out of the dash up throw attempt at this range. Hopefully going to test this out later in game rather than just training mode.
 
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ETC AdmiralAugustus

ETC AdmiralAugustus

Grabble Frazzled
Anyone wanna give me some pointers on the Batman matchup?

Also Espio I can play with ya sometime this weekend if you wanna get some matchup experience with mmh. I haven't played in forever so you're gonna have to excuse the rust.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
AdmiralAugustus said:
2 2-8's? And 2 3-7's? I know I've been out of the loop, but nigga you crazy
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dude Bane and Hawkgirl are matchups I have literally no idea what to do. I have never seen a high level grundy beat a high level bane in a set, I have never seen Grundy beat Hawkgirl either.

Green Lantern is a hard matchup because of the risks you have to take. A zoning green lantern with no chip trait? hope you like getting mini gunned.
inb4 minigun full screen, that shit you can swamp hands, I'm talking about the awkward mid screen game where you have to worry about b1.
 
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