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So many problems with mk 11

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
2. "Some characters can stuff most if not all wakeup options with a single move"

This is actually true. Many characters have single moves that beat out all wakeup options if not almost all. Erron Black, Jax, Kollector, Baraka all have universal tools for example Jax can B2 after backdash and it beats the following in the corner and most midscreen: U3/U2/Rolls/Throws/Delayed WU

Then we have a near Universal OS for wakeup Scorpion and Raid on come to mind almost every character can beat every option but back roll midscreen with it and some beat all. Shaolin has a thread on TYM called "Universal OS" check it out.

To be clear I'm not against anything here but I can understand frustration with certain characters having incredible oki
I'm disagreeing with this if the statement says that 1 move hits "meaty" and beat all options.
Impossiberu, U3 fully invincible on wakeup, if something tries to hit it while it happens it HAS to lose.
Forward Roll, is strike Invincible if a meaty tries to hit it while it happpens BEFORE the invincibility frames runs out it will whiff.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Search: "Universal OS" on TYM the thread was made by Shaolin. Some moves do in fact beat out U3 and all other options and some OS into block when U3 us used allowing punish or more pressure.

I'm on my phone ATM or I'd link it. I think I posted it above. He shows examples with Scorpion and Raiden because they have teleports but it can be used with other specials.
You guys are mixing your statements
Option Select, Meaty are two different things
Characters having option selects on wakeup is possible which means, a certain option will only come if something is activated under a certain time which player tricks the game to do 2 things at 2 diffrent timings.

But having a meaty strike defeating a move designed to be invincible against everything its not possible
Skarlet Low iad on wakeup were meaty in MK9, they hit used to hit before the wakeup window appears with a lot of active frames, it wasn't possible to use wakeups because to input specials you had to perform a 2 to 3 input commands while her Kunai was active.
After IGAU NRS gave invulnerability on knockdowns, because we used to perform Breakers into d3 to negate wakeups using meaty lows, just an example, there is a window no one will hit you as you stand, and if you input the right move to defeat meaties you actually will.
 
that's bullshit, there is no wakeup jump in this game, certainly there is no wakeup strings, if you are getting hit by a jab when the opponent wakes up or doing letting escape with a jump after they stand that's because you are just too slow to hit players on their wakeup window.

Stop blaming the game for you being slow, or better yet, play ppl with better connections, maybe plug a cable once in a while if you Wi-Fi ping is that high.

third, the breakaway is consistent, you need to make sure you have 2 defensive bars before using it, how many times you have looked at it before trying to mash it away?

Also why is this on a scorpion thread?
wakeup buttons is a thing i have found to be effective. I'll delay wakeup 2-3 times in a row mixed with a roll or two, once they've chilled out i'll seriously not delay wakeup and then wakeup jab. I feel the wakeup game in this is super strong.
 

kcd117

Noob
And what exactly its the problem, the fact that he can beat 8 out 10 scenarios with 1 move?
I already told you multiple times, he can't use this string unless he is in range of U3 or Forward roll if he wants to meaty with B222
If you can beat Meaty B222 with roll forward or U3 which is an option every character has, i don't really see a flaw in it.

I'm just here thinking how the the hell will U3 lose to B222 as meaty if U3 is fully invincible on wakeup.

Do make a video proof about it pls.
There are two problems:

1 first, he is one character, that has one move, that shuts down half of the cast on oki. Even with 10+ possible scenarios, he can simply knock you down once and goodbye neutral until you guess right (and in some cases guess right 3 consecutive times lol). Having one move that covers 80% of your options makes the guessing game completely in his favor. In a tournament, he can basically flipcoin you into losers/home after he wins the neutral once. I don't think this is good.

2 not everyone is Erron Black. He makes an extremely strong wakeup system look like nothing. We have many characters that don't have tools like that, and in some situations, it feels like the guessing game heavily favors the defender. That's why we see so many wakeup jumps and stuff like that.

The system forces you to respect too many options, and at the same time, some characters have tools that ignore all these options despite them being really strong.

Imo the rolls should still cost 1 bar but that bar should take twice the time it currently takes to come back. U2s should actually be buffed so they effectively stuff jump ins 100% of the time. All U3 should be very negative on block so if you read it you get a guaranteed punish.

Consequently, characters with enders that loop into stupid oki situations should have their tools adjusted to be unsafe, less damaging and in some cases not loopable.

I play Kano, and he has a really solid oki game. Once I knock you down I have cmd grab to stuff rolls and block, meaty F4 to catch jumps and low block, 24 to catch jumps and pressure people, B4 to low profile wakeups, B3 to catch jumps and people mashing and whiff punish U3. What keeps his oki fair is that he doesn't have a tool that stuffs everything universally, and I have to guess right like 5 to 6 times to effectively beat you, and the situations don't loop into the same hella advantageous blender, besides his F43, a 25 frames overhead that does 15% dmg and is not cancelable. Erron, on the other hand, has slide as a universal ender that sets up his oki, and has b222 a mid, overhead, overhead cancelable string that ignores most wakeup options and gives him mixups, full combos, and loops into the same situation, and he can potentially end the match in 3 loops. He has many other tools and options besides that. There is a difference between good and dumb, Kano's is good, very good actually, Erron's is just pure stupidity.

Edit: I'll try to make a vid this weekend, for some reason my PS4 won't upload directly to YT.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Invincible U3
Extremely fast air invincible U2
Far reaching front roll with stupid fast recovery frames
Far reaching back roll with stupid fast recover frames
Normal get up into normal
Wakeup grab
Delayed Wake up
Delayed wake up into fatal...

Also, this "every character has an option to shut down most if not all wake up options" is so far from the truth.. like stop lying to try and get your point across.

There are maybe 2-3 characters in the whole game that can do this to Most but not all of a characters wake up options.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
You guys are mixing your statements
Option Select, Meaty are two different things
Characters having option selects on wakeup is possible which means, a certain option will only come if something is activated under a certain time which player tricks the game to do 2 things at 2 diffrent timings.

But having a meaty strike defeating a move designed to be invincible against everything its not possible
Skarlet Low iad on wakeup were meaty in MK9, they hit used to hit before the wakeup window appears with a lot of active frames, it wasn't possible to use wakeups because to input specials you had to perform a 2 to 3 input commands while her Kunai was active.
After IGAU NRS gave invulnerability on knockdowns, because we used to perform Breakers into d3 to negate wakeups using meaty lows, just an example, there is a window no one will hit you as you stand, and if you input the right move to defeat meaties you actually will.
I'll try to find the video but I linked that thread because I posted one with jax that blows up:
Throw
Forward Roll
Back roll
U3
U2

It won't beat delayed Wakeup but he is safe on block 0 to be exact.

But it beats all those options Into full combo with B2 after micro backdash.
Now there are certain U3s that have massive range which requires different backdash times and blows up the wakeup tech I'm talking about(kollectors blows it up) since he has massive U2/3 range.

But it works vs most characters. I am fully aware meaty and OS are two different things but I was talking about options that beat wakeups whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter.
You can time you backdash and jaxs B2 to hit just after U3 wiffs you and it gets all other options if you misstime it the worst that can happen is you are safe on block.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara bruh
You need to learn how to bait wake ups. It seem like people think because you get the knock down it should still be your turn and its not the case. Whatch what your opponents tendancys are and punish accordingly.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
You guys are mixing your statements
Option Select, Meaty are two different things
Characters having option selects on wakeup is possible which means, a certain option will only come if something is activated under a certain time which player tricks the game to do 2 things at 2 diffrent timings.

But having a meaty strike defeating a move designed to be invincible against everything its not possible
Skarlet Low iad on wakeup were meaty in MK9, they hit used to hit before the wakeup window appears with a lot of active frames, it wasn't possible to use wakeups because to input specials you had to perform a 2 to 3 input commands while her Kunai was active.
After IGAU NRS gave invulnerability on knockdowns, because we used to perform Breakers into d3 to negate wakeups using meaty lows, just an example, there is a window no one will hit you as you stand, and if you input the right move to defeat meaties you actually will.

Here is a very poor example of what I'm talking about. If timed correctly it stuffs:
U+3
U+2
WU throw
Back Roll
Forward Roll
And is safe on Delay Wakeup

To be clear I'm not in agreement with those you are arguing with. I'm simply supplying info others may not know.
You post high quality content and are very intelligent and I normally take your word for most things (I always check them in lab though) but I know from near 5 years on here that you usually post good content.
As for the WU counter tech(not sure what to call it) it works and stuffs U3 and most wakeup options in the corner. I am not advocating nerfing anything at all. I think its fine.
As I stated in another post Kollectors U3 and U2 blows my tech up. He gas massive range and I'm sure there are a few others who can blow it up but it does work vs most characters.
 

Vslayer

I'm a gril
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Invincible U3
Extremely fast air invincible U2
Far reaching front roll with stupid fast recovery frames
Far reaching back roll with stupid fast recover frames
Normal get up into normal
Wakeup grab
Delayed Wake up
Delayed wake up into fatal...

Also, this "every character has an option to shut down most if not all wake up options" is so far from the truth.. like stop lying to try and get your point across.

There are maybe 2-3 characters in the whole game that can do this to Most but not all of a characters wake up options.
Wow, I never seen so much missinformation in one post.
 

OnlineSkunk

Premium
Premium Supporter
First of all, I'm also struggling in MK11, I'm not winning as I thought I would, with that said I feel like a lot of people overestimate their own skills and just want to blame the game when they realize they're not winning as they're expecting to. Not saying MK11 is flawless, there things that have been mentioned by pro players like Reo I'd like to see changed but that's not going to stop me from leveling up or to blame the game for my losses.
 

Son ov Timett

Bork, No Jin
First of all, I'm also struggling in MK11, I'm not winning as I thought I would, with that said I feel like a lot of people overestimate their own skills and just want to blame the game when they realize they're not winning as they're expecting to. Not saying MK11 is flawless, there things that have been mentioned by pro players like Reo I'd like to see changed but that's not going to stop me from leveling up or to blame the game for my losses.

Yep, the game is nigh 2 months old. Didnt realize there were so many gaming prodigies in the fgc. It takes time to lab, work on your main, and grind mus. Instant gratification generation. The game must be arse, since Im a deity among ants.

Mindset has a ton to do with playing. If ye playing with a piss poor attitude, ye just going to tilt further in the trench that Kano pisses in. Play calmly, try and improve upon your base skill set. If ye pissy and distracted, lab, play a tower, go read a book. Anything but come on here and piss and moan like a soft gelatinous clump of goo.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor

Here is a very poor example of what I'm talking about. If timed correctly it stuffs:
U+3
U+2
WU throw
Back Roll
Forward Roll
And is safe on Delay Wakeup

To be clear I'm not in agreement with those you are arguing with. I'm simply supplying info others may not know.
You post high quality content and are very intelligent and I normally take your word for most things (I always check them in lab though) but I know from near 5 years on here that you usually post good content.
As for the WU counter tech(not sure what to call it) it works and stuffs U3 and most wakeup options in the corner. I am not advocating nerfing anything at all. I think its fine.
As I stated in another post Kollectors U3 and U2 blows my tech up. He gas massive range and I'm sure there are a few others who can blow it up but it does work vs most characters.
this has a 33% chance of punishing the opponent. A 33% of getting full combo punished and 33% chance of having it blocked and resetting neutral.. and this is supposedly one of the better setups..
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I'll try to find the video but I linked that thread because I posted one with jax that blows up:
Throw
Forward Roll
Back roll
U3
U2

It won't beat delayed Wakeup but he is safe on block 0 to be exact.

But it beats all those options Into full combo with B2 after micro backdash.
Now there are certain U3s that have massive range which requires different backdash times and blows up the wakeup tech I'm talking about(kollectors blows it up) since he has massive U2/3 range.

But it works vs most characters. I am fully aware meaty and OS are two different things but I was talking about options that beat wakeups whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter.
You can time you backdash and jaxs B2 to hit just after U3 wiffs you and it gets all other options if you misstime it the worst that can happen is you are safe on block.
Sure, a video its much easier to diggest.

We also know most of U3 can be low profiled which i hope they get fixed soon.
 

Vslayer

I'm a gril
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Lol aren’t you the “Cassie is super honest poster”? How is there misinformation
Cassie is honest when she’s with me ;) her F4 may be a dirty tool but she’s still a grounded character.

First off, U2s have no armor. Second, every character can neutral jump, block, grab and move backwards or use advancing strings to beat wake up options. If you’re getting blown up by wake ups all the time it means you are always sitting on your opponent after knockdown and don’t anticipate any of them.
 
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Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist

Here is a very poor example of what I'm talking about. If timed correctly it stuffs:
U+3
U+2
WU throw
Back Roll
Forward Roll
And is safe on Delay Wakeup

To be clear I'm not in agreement with those you are arguing with. I'm simply supplying info others may not know.
You post high quality content and are very intelligent and I normally take your word for most things (I always check them in lab though) but I know from near 5 years on here that you usually post good content.
As for the WU counter tech(not sure what to call it) it works and stuffs U3 and most wakeup options in the corner. I am not advocating nerfing anything at all. I think its fine.
As I stated in another post Kollectors U3 and U2 blows my tech up. He gas massive range and I'm sure there are a few others who can blow it up but it does work vs most characters.
its not hitting meaty a all, the U3 is avoided not stuffed (interrupted), and its just an Oki Option select that works in the corner because Baraka has no where else to go so its pretty natural this works, pretty sure under the same conditions some characters with the same overhead speed can pull this exact same tactic. There is nothing wrong with it.

I went on practice mode and replicated the setup this doesn't work if
You wakeup and hit with your fastest advancing normal

You can flawless block and launch after a forward roll which its much easier to time it, i'm on metric data, i will up a vid as soon as i have internet at home.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
its not hitting meaty a all, the U3 is avoided not stuffed (interrupted), and its just an Oki Option select that works in the corner because Baraka has no where else to go so its pretty natural this works, pretty sure under the same conditions some characters with the same overhead speed can pull this exact same tactic. There is nothing wrong with it.

I went on practice mode and replicated the setup this doesn't work if
You wakeup and hit with your fastest advancing normal

You can flawless block and launch after a forward roll which its much easier to time it, i'm on metric data, i will up a vid as soon as i have internet at home.
Ive actually been wanting to have you check this for a while. Yeah tons if characters have this, some better than others. I was thinking a few have low profiling starters that may prove a strong option.
Shang is my main I'm still experimenting with his options. B3U4, F24, B11, 3U2 all look promising. His corpse drop might shut down everything in the corner if he is spaced correctly not to get punished and it has an amazing hitbox.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Throws are too fucking strong in this game, they do way too much damage and on top of that are 50/50's, and dont' tell me u can just figure out what direction they're gonna throw you in to tech it because i will flat out throw you outta the corner just becuz i want that damage yo, because its 12% and u can't block it, so to hell with the logical choice.

Duck the throw u say? thats fine until the character has staggerable mids that lead to 30% combo's.

throws should do like 6% to 8%, not 12%.
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
that's bullshit, there is no wakeup jump in this game, certainly there is no wakeup strings, if you are getting hit by a jab when the opponent wakes up or doing letting escape with a jump after they stand that's because you are just too slow to hit players on their wakeup window.

Stop blaming the game for you being slow, or better yet, play ppl with better connections, maybe plug a cable once in a while if you Wi-Fi ping is that high.

third, the breakaway is consistent, you need to make sure you have 2 defensive bars before using it, how many times you have looked at it before trying to mash it away?

Also why is this on a scorpion thread?
:DOGEBecause Scorpion's teleport is too punishable bruh. Another problem with MK11.
Also I get hit out of "wake-up" jump 99% of the time, so I don't know what the op is talking about.
 
that's bullshit, there is no wakeup jump in this game, certainly there is no wakeup strings, if you are getting hit by a jab when the opponent wakes up or doing letting escape with a jump after they stand that's because you are just too slow to hit players on their wakeup window.

Stop blaming the game for you being slow, or better yet, play ppl with better connections, maybe plug a cable once in a while if you Wi-Fi ping is that high.

third, the breakaway is consistent, you need to make sure you have 2 defensive bars before using it, how many times you have looked at it before trying to mash it away?

Also why is this on a scorpion thread?
no wakeup jump? now let's not deny that holding up on wakeup isn't a viable option