Question - Erron Black So erron black gets a free grab off every d3?

[MsMiharo]

Tick throws are great. Zangief has made a career out of them. Command grabs connecting on block strings are lame, and are rarely in fighting games.

As a defender, there is literally no way to know if he is going to continue the string and combo you or cancel it short into an unreactable Unbreakable connecting command grab. This is massively in his favor, more so than a 50/50 starter because you're already blocking. He is already applying pressure and you already blocked, so you shouldn't have to guess in the middle of a block string. Just imagine if Zangief was able to block string you into piledriver without having to time anything lmao. Or if Commando Kano could B1~Command grab you as a block string into rib breaker. He would be ridiculous. I haven't tried Jason outside of punishes, but every other character in the game, in NRS history, whiffs command grabs during block strings. Why is Erron different?

That's my only issue. I don't mind it connecting every other way because that's just something people have to deal with, but not during block strings. He shouldn't be rewarded with an extra mixup that he didn't have to tick throw or time on block, by just literally mashing out grab during a quick attack string.

Shazam says hi

 

[MsMiharo]

I've had this whiff in match for a number of reasons. You have a lot of time to react so you can literally full combo punish it or at least poke. But jumping is probably your best option.

 

[TKB]

Tick throws are great. Zangief has made a career out of them. Command grabs connecting on block strings are lame, and are rarely in fighting games.

As a defender, there is literally no way to know if he is going to continue the string and combo you or cancel it short into an unreactable Unbreakable connecting command grab. This is massively in his favor, more so than a 50/50 starter because you're already blocking. He is already applying pressure and you already blocked, so you shouldn't have to guess in the middle of a block string. Just imagine if Zangief was able to block string you into piledriver without having to time anything lmao. Or if Commando Kano could B1~Command grab you as a block string into rib breaker. He would be ridiculous. I haven't tried Jason outside of punishes, but every other character in the game, in NRS history, whiffs command grabs during block strings. Why is Erron different?

That's my only issue. I don't mind it connecting every other way because that's just something people have to deal with, but not during block strings. He shouldn't be rewarded with an extra mixup that he didn't have to tick throw or time on block, by just literally mashing out grab during a quick attack string.

He's not the first to have a block string lead into a tick throw...

Both Shazam and lobo have strings that do the exact same thing.

I don't see a problem here, it's definitely not broken. His d3 into command grab working on hit is kinda dumb but by no means Better than all the other crazy setups and vortexes in this game.

 

[NurzBenny]

I see no issue here. You stay blocking, you might get grabbed. Thems the breaks.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Jesum crow complaining about tick throws. How about complain about something real like ST's hawks negative edge grab loop, ya damn youngens.

 

[Crathen]

d3 into cmd grab works because the hitstun is so short that when the command grab connects you were able to do everything you want except blocking , armor or forward jumping are the best options and cover most stuff , also people are not punishing blockstrings into Sand Trap when they get hit , say 2112xxST you unblock on the last 2 and the cmd grab whiffs you got like 15 frames to punish , the risk reward is there especially when some characters can punish a potential 13-19% command grab with 40+ damage.

I agree that the cmd grab is the tool that will keep Erron Black good in the future when people stop getting hit by f13/f12 when he's not even in b32 range

 

[NurzBenny]

d3 into cmd grab works because the hitstun is so short that when the command grab connects you were able to do everything you want except blocking , armor or forward jumping are the best options and cover most stuff , also people are not punishing blockstrings into Sand Trap when they get hit , say 2112xxST you unblock on the last 2 and the cmd grab whiffs you got like 15 frames to punish , the risk reward is there especially when some characters can punish a potential 13-19% command grab with 40+ damage.

I agree that the cmd grab is the tool that will keep Erron Black good in the future when people stop getting hit by f13/f12 when he's not even in b32 range

Agreed, I think command grab is what separates him from being a future dud. You can also jump 21122 string if you smell command grab. (you'll get punished in marksman if the opponent cancel's the last hit into rifle swing but that's the risk you take. Like others have said neutral ducking and armor are your friends)

 

[SaltShaker]

He's not the first to have a block string lead into a tick throw...

Both Shazam and lobo have strings that do the exact same thing.

I don't see a problem here, it's definitely not broken. His d3 into command grab working on hit is kinda dumb but by no means Better than all the other crazy setups and vortexes in this game.

Reactable setup is fine with me, not that 21 bs.

I actually don't mind his D3 connecting into the grab, which is weird, since I should be on the other side of it lol. If they left that I wouldn't really care, as I think the tool helps him stay a strong character.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

6frame..

He has one of the faster pokes in the game

You going to low unblock after d3 on reaction? And then fuzzy guard when the grab doesn't come out?

Not to mention if ur low unblocking after a d3 ur guna eat d1 for free which gives a free 50/50..

Are you some kind of jedi with these on reaction tactics u plan on using.
By your logic NDC's in mk9 were completely legit

You literally just compared Erron Black doing D3 on hit into another D3 to NDCs...
I dont think there theres anything i can even say here...

 

[Captain Oxygen]

it is silly that you can tic it on hit. Thats the only thing I see here and it is dumb. Not much risk for you doing this.

This happens because the D3 on hit doesnt lead to free pressure because its +3 on hit. Some crouching pokes are more + on Block than his are on hit.

 

[wsj515]

It doesn't, read the post before you make dumbass sarcastic remarks

Its stupid, it makes the risk reward game up close even more horrible and the only way you're punishing it is crazy quick reactions or putting yourself in a very risky situation

So I just tested it - it only tics from a hit if you are standing and continue to stand. If you crouch after, it whiffs. If you are crouching when it hits, it whiffs. If you get hit standing or crouching, or block crouching, the throw whiffs if you jump, giving you a full combo punish off NJP. If you spam a low poke, you either beat out the d3 or get hit by the d3 and the throw whiffs. If they try the overhead string and you are spamming a low poke, it gets interrupted. If you block the d3, you get a full combo punish.

Its a mixup, just like any other in the game, and by no means is it overpowered.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Sounds like a typical tick grab. That D3 is punishable like anything else on a read. It's safe to say that jump in game is strong on erron black players. His ground game is too scary so stay safe in the air.

no

because a typical tick grab will not work if the poke lands.

can someone please post a video? this is getting annoying to read.

 

[Groove Heaven]

That's my only issue. I don't mind it connecting every other way because that's just something people have to deal with, but not during block strings. He shouldn't be rewarded with an extra mixup that he didn't have to tick throw or time on block, by just literally mashing out grab during a quick attack string.

Ohhhhh ok I see what you're saying.

I remember that Grundy's 112~4 would grab on block. Didn't Bane had something like that? Were there any strings they could cut short and get the grab to work? I don't have the game anymore to test and I really don't remember.

 

[Crathen]

no

because a typical tick grab will not work if the poke lands.

can someone please post a video? this is getting annoying to read.

Jason f2xxcmd grab and b2xxcmd grab actually tick throws on block and connect as a combo on hit , didn't grundy have b2xxgrab like that too?

What kind of video ya want?

Btw EB d3 is 11 frames of startup , -5 on block and only +3 on hit , it's not even usable as a counterpoke , hella characters have 9 frame or faster mids that launch on hit and are safe , i don't get what the big problem about the d3 is

 

[SaltShaker]

Ohhhhh ok I see what you're saying.

I remember that Grundy's 112~4 would grab on block. Didn't Bane had something like that? Were there any strings they could cut short and get the grab to work? I don't have the game anymore to test and I really don't remember.

Yup. That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying. Other than that I think he's fine. Even the grab on hit can stay as long as there's an escape option imo.

 

[ericscissorkick]

no

because a typical tick grab will not work if the poke lands.

can someone please post a video? this is getting annoying to read.

Sorry but even jasons won't work if they land. The only way to land them is in a juggle in combo. So like I said

Sounds like a typical tick grab to me.

 

[Doombawkz]

So whats the issue here? Erron black does a grab after d.3 and then what? Does it combo? If not, then nut up and learn to armor through or use grab immune moves.
Jeez.

 

[JDM]

Sorry but even jasons won't work if they land. The only way to land them is in a juggle in combo. So like I said

Sounds like a typical tick grab to me.

not from a poke but yeah it does. B2 into Grab or 24 into grab works on most of the cast on hit or block

 

[Doombawkz]

So I'm testing this out, and two things:

1) It doesn't combo. d.3xxcommand grab is not a true link. You can armor through it cleanly, hell Torr's roll will beat it out pretty much every time on block, and on hit you're still set to go.

Literally just hold up and he can't grab you on hit or on block.

2) d.3 is an 11 frame low that doesn't lead into anything else and has terrible range compared to his other low options.

So I mean its as useful of a tick throw as just about anything else. You can do the same thing with F/T's f.3 into command grab raw, or 11 command grab raw, only those moves are actually used in the overall flow of the match, unlike EB's d.3.

 

[ericscissorkick]

not from a poke but yeah it does. B2 into Grab or 24 into grab works on most of the cast on hit or block

It does not combo. I've tried all of his tick strings without block and they do not string togeather.

 

[ATP2014]

Kinda sad that people just jump to complaining on a forum about a mixup without testing out their escape options first.

Thought this group of players was better than that.

 

[wsj515]

salt report week 4 - tick throws

 

[vicious1024]

I believe every character with a command grab has one or more normals/strings that can be used for tick throw attempts. These can be OS'd in some cases, as well.

Dealing with these options can be quite annoying, as the followup does not have to be a command grab.

With Erron Black's 21122 string, for example, he can cancel anywhere on the 2nd to 4th hit with a command grab to catch you blocking.

Ducking and neutral jumping are good solutions to dealing with grab attempts. However, you'll need to react to which hit he's cancelling from and whether or not it was actually a command grab. If he cancels into a Sand Shot/Toss, you'll get hit and put back into another mixup situation.

 

[MsMiharo]

can you mash d3 on block vs EB's tick throws (ie 21122)?

 

[DubiousShenron]

blocking is always a risk in this game, but EB's command grab isnt a true unblockable so it can be neutral crouched just like a normal throw. Im wondering, does this d3 tick/hit command grab put EB's command grab over the top as one of the best in the game?