Match-up Discussion Smarrgasm Rain MU Chart

[Smarrgasm]

Okay guys, so as i promised I am reposting my revised MU chart. As always, this is my personal MU chart but I will be glad to answer any questions on why i feel a certain way about a MU, and PLEASE do not come just post Blah vs rain is blah and that be the end of your post. Explain why you believe it is different from what I have. Here we go.

Baraka- 5-5
Cyber-Sub- 5-5
Cyrax- 3.5-6.5
Ermac- 4-6
Freddy- 3-7
Jade- 6-4
Jax- 4-6
Johnny- 4-6
Kabal- 3-7
Kano- 6-4
Kenshi- 2-8 *Pigshi- 1-9 Pig Of The Hut
Kitana- 3.5-6.5
Kung Lao- 3-7
Liu Kang- 4-6
Mileena- 4-6
Nightwolf- 6-4
Noob Saibot- 5-5
Quan Chi- 5-5 (battle of meter)
Raiden- 4-6
Reptile- 4-6
Scorpion- 6-4
Sektor- 5-5
Shang- 4-6
Sheeva- 7-3
Sindel-5-5
Skarlet- 4-6
Smoke- 4-6
Sonya- 4-6(almost same as cage, shes just a little better)
Stryker- 6-4
Sub Zero- 4-6
Total= 133/300

Updated on 1/2/2013 to reflect how i believe rain matches up with all the characters based solely on the tools and the MU at hand. This no longer reflects my personal feelings on how confident i am with a MU.

 

[Lulzlou]

Honestly think Kabal-Rain is 7-3 or 6.5-3.5 (if you want to go by .5s also)
Armor is the only thing that saves him.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Honestly think Kabal-Rain is 7-3 or 6.5-3.5 (if you want to go by .5s also)
Armor is the only thing that saves him.

Kenshi and Lao are worse IMO. Kabal has a harder time zoning rain than most characters and rain with his armor can get out of pressure when needing to. The major problems are rains hitbox and the fact that like cage he has to chase pretty hard sometimes. Unlinke cage though rain has the armored launcher for 40%+ and a way to take away some of kabals insane zoning ability with the bubble to duck Iagb's and in some situations the teleport.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

can you separate it out to Very good, good, even, bad, and very bad MU?

 

[Lulzlou]

Kenshi and Lao are worse IMO. Kabal has a harder time zoning rain than most characters and rain with his armor can get out of pressure when needing to. The major problems are rains hitbox and the fact that like cage he has to chase pretty hard sometimes. Unlinke cage though rain has the armored launcher for 40%+ and a way to take away some of kabals insane zoning ability with the bubble to duck Iagb's and in some situations the teleport.

Thats why I'd said 6.5-3.5. To me Rain isn't really that much of a problem compared to Kabal's other 6-4's. Rain has a hard time building meter against Kabal so Rain gets bullied by pressure a lot. You have to rely on reads and the kabal players mistakes, which can be very inconsistent depending on who you fight. Its not as bad as Kabal-Cage/Cyrax but I feel like rain doesn't compete like Liu Kang, KL, Reptile, etc.

 

[Smarrgasm]

can you separate it out to Very good, good, even, bad, and very bad MU?

I will do this in the rain community chart. This should be ready by next week.

 

[STRYKIE]

Interested in knowing why you think he beats Scorp.

 

[BillStickers]

Rain-Johnny Cage: 4-6

Source:

 

[Smarrgasm]

Rain-Johnny Cage: 4-6

Source:

I dont even want to humor this, but i guess i will. STH actively thinks rain is one of the worst in the game and is not a true rain main.

Interested in knowing why you think he beats Scorp.

It is definitely an interesting matchup but i think rain does well against scorpion for a couple reasons. Rains major problems come from zoners getting damage on him and being able to play keep away and force rain off his footsie game. With scorpion the only thing forcing me to not sit back and play my game is hellfire. Since that is his only major tool to throw at me at distance i can simply sit back and even check you multiple times with lightning since it trades well with hellfire and beats anything else you do anyway. Up close scorpions only real answer for my pressure other than his awful pokes is his armor. If i think you are going to even try armoring out then i can cancel into jump or any number of options like adding my d3 into pressure since it makes ex spear whiff. The only thing that scares me is the vortex but if i guess right you eat 50% making you scared to go for the mixup.

 

[RYX]

i think noob beats rain. or at most it's even. :s

 

[Smarrgasm]

i think noob beats rain. or at most it's even. :s

And like i said...Explain why you think it is different than my number.

 

[RYX]

And like i said...Explain why you think it is different than my number.

Sorry.

The big thing in this MU is Rain's armor; damage isn't much of an issue considering he goes 5-5 with Ermac who's one of the best punishers in the game. Noob's F3 out-ranges Rain's pokes and if I'm not mistaken his standing 4 as well. Armor is what forces Noob to play smarter but he wins just about everywhere except point-blank where he risks eating heavy damage. Noob can lame him out pretty well too from outside RH distance and beyond. So yeah, I'm going to say it's an even match-up. They can both play a really heavy footsies game but Noob has the advantage of zoning too.

 

[16 Bit]

I agree about Kitana.

 

[ForeverKing]

Yeah I think Rain goes even with Noob, and probably 3-7 vs Kabal. Rain's main problem is getting zoned out, using teleports stupidly can get you full-combo punished. Also Rain has a big hitbox, so Kabal is free to block infinite up close. Kabal zones Rain pretty good and puts good rushdown on his as well. Every single one of Rain's teleports will eat Kabal's f4 nomad dash and it's too hard for Rain to get in on good IAGBs

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

Don't use that shitty video as evidence lol!

With that said, Rain is a piece of fucking shit. If Kano wasn't in this game at least Rain would have a title: THE WORST

Come on Rain mains, I won't even ask you to make top 8 at a large offline tournament... make top 16, hell top 32 only using Rain. You can't, not because you're bad - but because your character is garbage day!

 

[Smarrgasm]

Sorry.

The big thing in this MU is Rain's armor; damage isn't much of an issue considering he goes 5-5 with Ermac who's one of the best punishers in the game. Noob's F3 out-ranges Rain's pokes and if I'm not mistaken his standing 4 as well. Armor is what forces Noob to play smarter but he wins just about everywhere except point-blank where he risks eating heavy damage. Noob can lame him out pretty well too from outside RH distance and beyond. So yeah, I'm going to say it's an even match-up. They can both play a really heavy footsies game but Noob has the advantage of zoning too.

My take on this MU is that it is almost like cage once rain gets in and rain has better ways of getting in on noob. The shadows recovery are terrible and lightning trades decently with them as well. Another thing is that at the highest possible level all rains will be punishing any thrown shadow with EX-RH cancelled into lightning for around 25% which nullifies the zoning when rain has meter.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Don't use that shitty video as evidence lol!

With that said, Rain is a piece of fucking shit. If Kano wasn't in this game at least Rain would have a title: THE WORST

Come on Rain mains, I won't even ask you to make top 8 at a large offline tournament... make top 16, hell top 32 only using Rain. You can't, not because you're bad - but because your character is garbage day!

I made top 32 at raleigh with rain. And had an insanely close set with Tyler lantern for top 16.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I made top 32 at raleigh with rain. And had an insanely close set with Tyler lantern for top 16.

Well shit lol.

It's a shame you weren't playing... anyone else. Who knows how far you would have went!

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

Rain-Johnny Cage: 4-6

Source:

Best post on TYM

 

[Smarrgasm]

Well shit lol.

It's a shame you weren't playing... anyone else. Who knows how far you would have went!

I have tried other characters and this is the one for me. I cant seem to play as well with anyone else. At raleigh i was out to prove that rain can at least compete and i think i did well enough. I played 16 bit in my first match and lost 3-0 but could have made it 3-1 or better if not for a negative edge error. Rain isnt someone to really sleep on cause he has some insane tools in the right hands. I beat revolver 3-0 in losers and lost a close set to Tyler 3-1 i believe. In the end i think i tied for 25th or something like that.

 

[RYX]

My take on this MU is that it is almost like cage once rain gets in and rain has better ways of getting in on noob. The shadows recovery are terrible and lightning trades decently with them as well. Another thing is that at the highest possible level all rains will be punishing any thrown shadow with EX-RH cancelled into lightning for around 25% which nullifies the zoning when rain has meter.

A very interesting perspective, but I think it's the opposite: I've had much more success keeping Rains out than Cage in the few times I've had the opportunity to face him, I can upknee or full-combo punish you if you teleport on reaction and I can teleport you for trying to throw lightning(or a bubble, but no Rain player will try to zone NS), and aside from getting armored, I don't have to guess on when to poke out most of the time(I used to use Rain for a time, I know only a few gaps to poke). Yes, you can blow me up for zoning but I don't try to zone full-screen; Noob plays this best at about half distance where he can F33 his way in and get a burst of rushdown in before he goes back to spacing things out. It's a shame you don't have PSN, I'd love to grind this match-up out.

 

[Smarrgasm]

A very interesting perspective, but I think it's the opposite: I've had much more success keeping Rains out than Cage in the few times I've had the opportunity to face him, I can upknee or full-combo punish you if you teleport on reaction and I can teleport you for trying to throw lightning(or a bubble, but no Rain player will try to zone NS), and aside from getting armored, I don't have to guess on when to poke out most of the time(I used to use Rain for a time, I know only a few gaps to poke). Yes, you can blow me up for zoning but I don't try to zone full-screen; Noob plays this best at about half distance where he can F33 his way in and get a burst of rushdown in before he goes back to spacing things out. It's a shame you don't have PSN, I'd love to grind this match-up out.

If you want to play someone on psn who i know is a good rain i would suggest Mothmonsterman0

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

I can agree with Sheeva, it is one of her rougher matches, her fireball is pretty slow and you can lightning faster than it and her ground stomp. Telestomp gets negated by the geyser kick and the enhanced roundhouse is a match for her armored grabs. He pretty much has a counter special move for every one that she has lol. So it's not a real good match for her.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I have tried other characters and this is the one for me. I cant seem to play as well with anyone else. At raleigh i was out to prove that rain can at least compete and i think i did well enough. I played 16 bit in my first match and lost 3-0 but could have made it 3-1 or better if not for a negative edge error. Rain isnt someone to really sleep on cause he has some insane tools in the right hands. I beat revolver 3-0 in losers and lost a close set to Tyler 3-1 i believe. In the end i think i tied for 25th or something like that.

I'm not doubting your skill - losing to 16 and Tyler is nothing to feel bad about; as well as beating Revolver.

With that said, it still doesn't make me a Rain believer even in the slightest. You like footsies? Check out Sektor or Kitana, they both kill Rain in comparison. You like safe armor that goes into combos? Sonya is your gal!

I see no reason to play Rain when Sektor, Kitana, and Sonya are in this game - other than character loyalty. I think by design Rain is top tier; which is why I always pull him out in casuals every once in a while.

 

[Smarrgasm]

I'm not doubting your skill - losing to 16 and Tyler is nothing to feel bad about; as well as beating Revolver.

With that said, it still doesn't make me a Rain believer even in the slightest. You like footsies? Check out Sektor or Kitana, they both kill Rain in comparison. You like safe armor that goes into combos? Sonya is your gal!

I see no reason to play Rain when Sektor, Kitana, and Sonya are in this game - other than character loyalty. I think by design Rain is top tier; which is why I always pull him out in casuals every once in a while.

I have tried just about everyone and none feel quite like rain. Sonya was my main for a while but Rain just fits how i play and i understand what i need to do in almost all situations. I wish i could make it to NEC to show him off some more but it looks like it will only be at locals until Final Round.