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Question - Quan Chi Small Quan Buffs

Kinetic Predator

Kinetic Predator

WOOLAY
OMG QUAN BUFFS BURN IT WITH FIRE is going to be the general consensus here but please hear me out. This thread has mostly universal changes but some of this will be about the Summoner variation.
EDIT: IM ABSOLUTELY SICK OF THIS QUAN CHI UP PLAY IT'S DESPICABLE. JUST BECAUSE HE WAS GREAT BEFORE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO CRY ABOUT HOW HE IS SO "PERFECT" NOW SMH​
We all know summoner Quan was butchered in the last patch. He honestly was really dumb to fight against and needed those changes. Now you'll see like a couple summoners online and even offline. Even when Quan was an offensive beast, not that many pros were playing him due to lack of defense options. I'm not a down player but Quan being considered top 10 right now is ridiculous. I still believe summoner/ warlock has the best zoning in the game even better than Full Auto, Kenshi (lol Kenshi), Shinnok, etc. That's what summoner is based on, zoning. But he has many problems with his bat. Some of these changes don't have to do with the bat but I feel help Quan as well as other Quan players do.

UNIVERSAL BUFFS
Make Quan's b32 -7 or -6 on block instead of -14.​
Quan chi's b324 should be -14 on block since it is a low combo starter. There should be a reward for hit confirming on block into b32 which doesn't launch on hit and it would still slightly punishable by some characters or safe but still negative. After you do b3 (-13 on block) anything after that or even that is completely unsafe and full combo punishable.
Make Quan's B1 have a startup of 11 frames instead of 14 frames.​
Quan right now is basically 50/50s and zoning. He really lacks a fast moving mid to use in neutral. B1 isn't some great combo starter move but it's great to check people in neutral because of the good range.
Enhanced scoop (db1) in all variations like Warlock.​
Please put the pitchfork down. I think it is very fair to give Quan a wakeup now since he's been nerfed pretty heavily. It will still be -20 and easy to bait out for a full combo punish. It's just ridiculous playing characters like A-list Johnny Cage, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Jax, Liu Kang, etc., and having nothing but your trusty ol' d1 lol. NRS please stop buffing sky drop it is completely useless and has a horrible hitbox you can even anti air it on the way down. Sky drop is hands down the most useless armor in the game.
D1 being +10 on hit rather than +3.​
There's not a worse feeling than counter poking with d1 to see it hit while they mash buttons or armor, getting out of whatever string you went for next. I don't want 50/50s off of a d1 hitting, this doesn't guarantee a low or overhead after the poke hits. Most characters have around +15 after a d1 hits. This just gives you more time maybe to do his s1 (7f).


SUMMONER BUFFS
Bat whiffing issues.​
For the love of God just watch this video http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Kinetic Predato/video/16430813 and this video where I don't understand why bat is a mid but when immediately called out there are inconsistencies. http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Kinetic Predato/video/16775127
Nuff said there please fix that lord Paulo the bat is a projectile why isn't it working IT'S FRUSTRATING lol.
B1 into bat summon being safe.​
I'm not asking for safe 50/50s into bat summon, I just want one single move to be safe into bat call. Summoner needs the bat out at all times and this can help.
Bat summon made slightly quicker.​
No I don't want the broken cooldown it had from the start of the game but getting bat out faster can help him not get punished as much when maybe calling it out of b1 range.

Thanks for reading and let me know your opinions below. I think these buffs are fair and do not make him op but make him better to use. Everything else is fine. WOOLAY. Please don't torch me this is just my opinion.​
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Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
the dude already has jailing, + on block meterless 50/50's via bat, covers a good range with b2 and b1, and has great zoning, and a fast d1 to interrupt pressure.

i'd say he's solid enough as is.
 
Goat-City

Goat-City

Banned
I'm glad you made this thread because it gives me an opportunity to list what they should actually do to Quan, and he's still around the top 10 by the way. Saying otherwise for any variation but Warlock is ridiculous. Summoner and Sorcerer are somewhere between the 11th best in the game and the 8th best, and if you don't think so then try to name 10 characters that are without a doubt better than Summoner/Sorcerer. I made a thread on how to properly balance Quan Chi a while back but I've made some small revisions to my ideas. The premise of my ideas is to nerf his 50/50s but buff his zoning so he'll be a more skill based character but still around the same area on the tier list.

The only thing I definitely agree with is b1 being made 11 or 12 frames instead of 14. That way we could punish some things more consistently, we'd have something to counter poke d4s with, and it'd be a better ranged anti air for jump ins like Kotal's and Shinnok's. And making b1 canceled into bat summon safe would be unnecessary and it would mean that b1 canceled into the purple spell in Sorcerer would be plus. It just makes no sense as an idea and wouldn't even work without giving b1 massive block stun.

B32 being safe is absurd. Do we really want more safe, meterless, launching, hit confirmable 50/50s in this fucking game? If you think he needs it to compete with top tiers, then ask for top tiers to be nerfed, not mid tiers to be buffed. We want this game more skill based with more footsies, not less.

He actually needs his 50/50s nerfed, not buffed. Summoner needs his hard to blockables removed, they're disgusting, and they should be removed by making all overheads hit mid while the low bat is active. In addition, b2 should become a mid and f1 and f4 should become the new overheads. The cancel advantage on f1 and f4 should be reduced so that trance doesn't link afterwards, and the cancel advantage on f14 should be reduced even more so that neither trance nor rune would connect afterwards for a combo. That way his overhead starter could not be hit confirmed and you would have to spend meter to get it to launch, which also removes his meterless vortex that he still has. However, this would buff his zoning because f142 not only grants a full screen knockdown on hit, but it's also safe on block, so we would have more meter to use for MB runes because we wouldn't have to use them to make the overhead safe.

To compensate for the 50/50 nerfs, rune needs to be +14 again regardless of how long we delay it, BUT it should always have a gap even if we meter burn it immediately. This would give Sorcerer his rune trap back, which he should have for several reasons. To compensate for the rune trap being back, Sorcerer's meter drain spell needs to drain far less meter, about the amount it drained during the GGPO beta, and purple trance should drain 25-50% of a bar, not 75%.

As for what Warlock needs, portal stab needs to be sped up by about 4 frames so it could be used as an armored anti air to counter broken jump punches and neutral jump kicks during knockdowns. Portal grab needs much better tracking so it'll work as a full screen anti air at all times, and 21f3 needs to be special cancelable to give him 4% more damage on all his combos.

And lastly, EX sky drop needs armor on the way down.
 
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Kinetic Predator

Kinetic Predator

WOOLAY
gam224 said:
not really small buffs here. I can agree with decreasing the start up on back 1 and increasing hit advantage on d1 but beyond that no.
Click to expand...
So it's fair that Quan should be taking all this pressure in the corner etc after his nerfs? Lol better be good at back dashing with this current Quan.
 
Goat-City

Goat-City

Banned
Kinetic Predator said:
So it's fair that Quan should be taking all this pressure in the corner etc after his nerfs? Lol better be good at back dashing with this current Quan.
Click to expand...
Yes, because his offense is ridiculous. And EX sky drop actually is a decently useful wake up now. Not particularly good but it's a threat now at least.
 
gam224

gam224

The world's least hype player
Kinetic Predator said:
So it's fair that Quan should be taking all this pressure in the corner etc after his nerfs? Lol better be good at back dashing with this current Quan.
Click to expand...
If you don't want to eat pressure you have the option of switching to warlock. In summoner you gain the best zoning in the game as well as safe 50/50s with bat. In sorcerer you gain a corner game 2nd only to sub zero. In return for this you have poor wake up. You have a variation that gives you a wake up. When necessary use it.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I don't think he needs any huge buffs.

I mean, it'd be nice to have something that isn't Portal Kick to punish some moves with heavy blockstun consistently, but that's what a 50/50 is for, I guess. Just run up and do it. ;-)
 
myri

myri

Time Warrior
He's fine the way he is right now. He's always sucked at getting out of the corner, it's one of his few weaknesses.
 
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