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Question - Scorpion Should you play unsafe or safe?

SpecOps2013

SpecOps2013

Mortal
Should you play a high risk, high reward play style or a low risk low reward play style? For example, in Ninjutsu Scorpion, if you wanna play high risk, you can do running b4 into spear, do multiple f2 takedowns or do 114 and counterpoke with Ex teleport. I think that having a high risk play style is easier to open up your opponent and make them respect your f2 in Ninjutsu, and having a low risk play style is harder to open up your opponent. (Since you have to wait for your opponent to whiff a normal or string or press buttons.) Thoughts?
 
LaidbackOne

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Play risky when you have meter to break or when you know you won't get punished for much dmg. Otherwise its better to play safe (at least for me of course)
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
both, if you make a read with an ex teleport halfway through a match the reward is often winning the game. but dont be a numpty
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
SpecOps2013 said:
Should you play a high risk, high reward play style or a low risk low reward play style? For example, in Ninjutsu Scorpion, if you wanna play high risk, you can do running b4 into spear, do multiple f2 takedowns or do 114 and counterpoke with Ex teleport. I think that having a high risk play style is easier to open up your opponent and make them respect your f2 in Ninjutsu, and having a low risk play style is harder to open up your opponent. (Since you have to wait for your opponent to whiff a normal or string or press buttons.) Thoughts?
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YoloRoll1stHit said:
If you play high risk with Ninjutsu you get no reward. He basically has no true 50/50s, just a bunch of (quite) fuzzyable low/oh, which will be blocked 99% at high level. Play footsie with patience is the best way
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But on wakeup he still has a 50/50 though, his f2 will get you a full combo if you guess wrong, and his b3 will do the same. Yea his b32f2 (I think) can be fuzzied, but most players won't do that on wakeup, they'll either do a b3 or f2 won't they?
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
ILuvFightGames said:
But on wakeup he still has a 50/50 though, his f2 will get you a full combo if you guess wrong, and his b3 will do the same. Yea his b32f2 (I think) can be fuzzied, but most players won't do that on wakeup, they'll either do a b3 or f2 won't they?
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B3 and F2 as seperate things are VERY fuzzyable. Plus you can see the he's doing F2 and react with a high block.
 
I.z.u.n.a.

I.z.u.n.a.

Noob
I don't know man I like lettin people hang themselves just playing defensively with Scorp. Then kind of get silly with the teleports to kinda insult their reactions and finally just start running up and spamming j3, throwing them and mixing the throw up with f2 or b12. Seems to work!

He's got some good safe 'option selects' when he has meter that can really zap a lifebar quick if they aren't used to seeing his f4 if you can get that down.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
l="Scott The Scot, post: 2192189, member: 29719"]B3 and F2 as seperate things are VERY fuzzyable. Plus you can see the he's doing F2 and react with a high block.[/QUOTE]

If you're getting up and scorpion is on top of you and you have to guess high or low are you saying if you choose to block low and scorpion does f2 you can react to that?
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
if your busy trying to fuzzy the f2/takedown option, wouldnt that open you up to b3/b4?

anyways, my advice for scorpion? don't be afraid to throw a few things out if you think the opponent is gonna press buttons, it'll earn you respect and let you dictate the pace of the match.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
ILuvFightGames said:
If you're getting up and scorpion is on top of you and you have to guess high or low are you saying if you choose to block low and scorpion does f2 you can react to that?
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Well not me, because I'm bad at videogames, but everyone else seem to manage.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
SaSSolino said:
Well not me, because I'm bad at videogames, but everyone else seem to manage.
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Yea me too, but even top players get hit by these, they nerfed sonyas 50/50 overhead yet at scr people were still getting hit by it. I saw scar hitting sonicfpc with multiple overheads when he beat him 3-0 at scr too, and this was with smoke, but he mixed low attacks too so sonic had to guess and guessed wrong multiple times. Scar also got mixed by fox, every top player does. My point is that while on paper it seems you can react, (which in many cases you can) is that not every time. I'm just saying it's easier said than done, but I'll say it again, you can do it but it's not easy. So it's not only you or me or people reading this, it's even the best players in the world bro. And while I agree to a point that since I suck I'll get hit more often than better players, still doesn't change the fact that even the best get mixed. I truly believe ninjutsu has a good 50/50 mixup.
 
SpecOps2013

SpecOps2013

Mortal
Reacting is not easy man. It is all about the timing. When you grab an opponent trying to fuzzy, it throws off his timing and opens up scorpions b3/b4 and f2/takedown. That is why you see top players still get hit by f2/takedown.
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
ILuvFightGames said:
If you're getting up and scorpion is on top of you and you have to guess high or low are you saying if you choose to block low and scorpion does f2 you can react to that?
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Well you don't have to guess high or low at all but anyway that's exactly what I'm saying. If you're looking for it then I don't see why not - the overhead comes out in 22 frames, 5 frames after the 17 frame mid and it's not like the animation is hard to distunguish it from anything else. The animation is very recognisable as well.

Invincible Salads said:
if your busy trying to fuzzy the f2/takedown option, wouldnt that open you up to b3/b4?
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You block low for 16 frames, then high for at most 10 frames after the first hit of F2 (so 27 frames overall) then go low. That covers B3/F2/F2~Takedown. You'll be free to grabs unless you can tech on reaction :p
 
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Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
There's nothing wrong with taking a risk for a high reward with Scorpion. I feel the only viable option for risk taking is using his ex teleport to punish retaliation after a string, aa and etc. The problem with this is that the teleport will whiff completely against forward advancing strings.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
ILuvFightGames said:
Yea me too, but even top players get hit by these, they nerfed sonyas 50/50 overhead yet at scr people were still getting hit by it. I saw scar hitting sonicfpc with multiple overheads when he beat him 3-0 at scr too, and this was with smoke, but he mixed low attacks too so sonic had to guess and guessed wrong multiple times. Scar also got mixed by fox, every top player does. My point is that while on paper it seems you can react, (which in many cases you can) is that not every time. I'm just saying it's easier said than done, but I'll say it again, you can do it but it's not easy. So it's not only you or me or people reading this, it's even the best players in the world bro. And while I agree to a point that since I suck I'll get hit more often than better players, still doesn't change the fact that even the best get mixed. I truly believe ninjutsu has a good 50/50 mixup.
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Ninjutsu's f2 is a little slower than sonya's or smoke's b1, just saying.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
YoloRoll1stHit said:
@Eddy Wang can you give some opinions about this?
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It depends on how one can feel the opponent, sometimes the risk its worth taking, and sometimes its not, its honestly just a balance in between playing footsies and then go for a 50-50 here and there a few times.

Something that might not even be that needed since this new meta made Ninjutsu one of the strongest defensive variations in the game.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Eddy Wang said:
It depends on how one can feel the opponent, sometimes the risk its worth taking, and sometimes its not, its honestly just a balance in between playing footsies and then go for a 50-50 here and there a few times.

Something that might not even be that needed since this new meta made Ninjutsu one of the strongest defensive variations in the game.
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Listen to this man, he's a ninjitsu god. Everything I know about the character, everything I learned about the character when I played him is because of Eddy, he knows his shit when it comes to ninjitsu
 
hayatei

hayatei

Mortal
thinking in term of play styles might be a bit limiting

figure out your own match up based game plans/strategies. adjust/adapt to players and take those risks when you think it's the right choice (aka when you read your opponent). it's never black and white, sometimes being safer will be the right choice and sometimes it will be the opposite.

keep exploring and innovating and you will find your answers! :)
 
SpecOps2013

SpecOps2013

Mortal
hayatei said:
thinking in term of play styles might be a bit limiting

figure out your own match up based game plans/strategies. adjust/adapt to players and take those risks when you think it's the right choice (aka when you read your opponent). it's never black and white, sometimes being safer will be the right choice and sometimes it will be the opposite.

keep exploring and innovating and you will find your answers! :)
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Thanks for the advice Hayatei. By the way your Ronin Takeda has always been a joy to watch! :)
 
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