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Should Last Breath and Avoid Chip Death be revised?

Do you agree with this idea?


  • Total voters
    80

grandabx

The Flameater
You seem to be against chip killing, that's never going to change - so why would you be against a skill based way to stop being chipped out? Whether or not flawless block functions like it does in SF is irrelevant.
How many times am I going to repeat it? I'm against chip-killing without skill.

Irrelevant? MK's entire system is all around chip. practically everything does chip, but it's mechanics for the situation are useless.

Last breath is just a couple of extra punches to the face...while blocking. Fatal Blow requires meter and is not even close to a SF parry system. MK has freakn' chip on an escaped throw. Good luck with that.

They could use the MK defensive bar to negate chip similar to the Barrier meter in Blazblue, except when used, make meter recovery super slow. Then the negation is based around proper meter management instead of some auto system. The offensive player also has the strategic freedom to get their opponent to use up meter for other things just like forcing Breakaway. The offensive player also has to factor in that just making someone block doesn't equal a win immediately. No more exploitation of chip. All on the players.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
How many times am I going to repeat it? I'm against chip-killing without skill.

Irrelevant? MK's entire system is all around chip. practically everything does chip, but it's mechanics for the situation are useless.

Last breath is just a couple of extra punches to the face...while blocking. Fatal Blow requires meter and is not even close to a SF parry system. MK has freakn' chip on an escaped throw. Good luck with that.

They could use the MK defensive bar to negate chip similar to the Barrier meter in Blazblue, except when used, make meter recovery super slow. Then the negation is based around proper meter management instead of some auto system. The offensive player also has the strategic freedom to get their opponent to use up meter for other things just like forcing Breakaway. The offensive player also has to factor in that just making someone block doesn't equal a win immediately. No more exploitation of chip. All on the players.
What do you consider skill in a fighting game then? If you get brought down to 1%, your opponent obviously outplayed you. Does it really make that much of a difference that you'll now lose to an oh/low strike/throw rather than chip out? Is winning a coin flip earning damage? You can't just conveniently forget that there was a whole match leading up to the chip out scenario.

What you said was completely irrelevant because you basically babbled about SF's system without ever talking about it in relation to MK11's flawless block system, and why my flawless block/no chip idea would be bad. Why else would you be replying to me?
 

grandabx

The Flameater
1. What do you consider skill in a fighting game then?

2. If you get brought down to 1%, your opponent obviously outplayed you.

3. Does it really make that much of a difference that you'll now lose to an oh/low strike/throw rather than chip out?

4. Is winning a coin flip earning damage? You can't just conveniently forget that there was a whole match leading up to the chip out scenario.

5. What you said was completely irrelevant because you basically babbled about SF's system without ever talking about it in relation to MK11's flawless block system, and why my flawless block/no chip idea would be bad.
Why else would you be replying to me?
1. Winning without exploitation.

2. True, but they've still have not won the round. 1% still remains.

3. Catching someone with an overhead, low attack, throw etc. is a mistake on the defender (MK's throw escapes do chip, so there's another exploit). Making someone block and having them lose because of it isn't opening up of the player. It's an exploit of MK's ancient chip damage system implementation.

4. Having momentum up to that point (1% health) doesn't change the fact that the opponent still hasn't been defeated. Just getting someone to their last bit of health doesn't mean you earned a win. They're still standing. MK's the only game where the odds are so stacked up against the defending player making a comeback because everything is connected to chip. It's solutions for chip are useless. The player is doing what they're supposed to do when attacked, but are being punished for it. The offensive player is exploiting the imbalance of the defending playing not being allowed to properly defend themselves.

5. I already explained this. MK has EVERYTHING doing chip including throw escapes. SF only has to deal with specials and super concerning chip. DOT in SF doesn't kill on it's own. Gray life doesn't kill on it's own. You can only chip-kill in SFV with supers. SF3 has regular parry and red parry and neither needs meter to be used.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
No it’s fine as it is. This is a big reason I use Searing Rage Scorpion. Death Spin best chip killer in the game!
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
No it’s fine as it is. This is a big reason I use Searing Rage Scorpion. Death Spin best chip killer in the game!
Currently, on last breath territory regular block is stronger than flawless block, how is this fine?
You completely avoid chip at cost of 1 bar if you regular block any move.
But you lose both if you flawless block? How on earth is this fine?
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I like the mechanic, because it serves as a non invasive way to make chip kills less cheesy. If last breath is available, Scorpion can still chip someone out with his Death Spin, but he can't just get a cheesy chip kill with his teleport.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Currently, on last breath territory regular block is stronger than flawless block, how is this fine?
You completely avoid chip at cost of 1 bar if you regular block any move.
But you lose both if you flawless block? How on earth is this fine?
Lose both of what? What are you talking about?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
He is saying you lose the ability to Avoid Chip and Last Breath if you flawless block instead of just regular block. The more skilled option loses the match.
Yeah but that’s not what the OP was about or what I was responding to.

And regardless I’m okay with that. I think chip death avoidance is stupid anyway. Be happy with what y’all have.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
Yeah but that’s not what the OP was about or what I was responding to.

And regardless I’m okay with that. I think chip death avoidance is stupid anyway. Be happy with what y’all have.
I also think chip death avoidance is stupid and Robbie the better player. Imo its unnecessary safety blanket for the player who got outplayed in the first place.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Premium Supporter
Maybe everyone should get dvorahs ability to turn into a bug. And when that bug dies you get one last chance and turn into a maggot. But thats your last final breath no more chances.
 

Eldriken

You are marked for termination.
Forum General
Disagree.

The point of last breath is to give you a "last" chance to win. Not 3 more chances to win.
Who said it gives you three chances to win?

I really think people aren't reading what I'm saying or I'm not explaining it well enough for people to understand.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
I'd like to suggest an idea that is used in a lot of fighting games: one can't die from chip damage. Why should anyone lose a match for playing defensively and waiting for an opportunity to make a comback?
Counter argument:

Why should blocking suddenly make you invincible when you’re about to die, while you take block damage for the entire rest of the match?

I just hate the whole concept of no-chip-kill. Always have. You account for dealing damage (including block damage) during the match, so that damage should always be consistent.
 
I think the current system works fine. I just think that flawless block should not remove a defensive bar while in Last Breath/Chip avoided territory. Flawless block is a high risk/high reward mechanic, and it should allow the defender to take one extra hit that does not cost a defensive bar (I don't think it should apply to the whole string tho). I can think of only one move that bypasses it in the main game, it's Skarlet's Blood Ritual (this is why I think that this move isn't that bad). They should give Johnny's Brass Knuckles the ability to bypass Last Breath/Chip avoided because the move isn't that useful in his toolset right now.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Counter argument:

Why should blocking suddenly make you invincible when you’re about to die, while you take block damage for the entire rest of the match?

I just hate the whole concept of no-chip-kill. Always have. You account for dealing damage (including block damage) during the match, so that damage should always be consistent.
I see your point; however, other fighters that deal chip on attacks have no chip kills. Don't see why MK11 can't have it.
 

BolverkGTM

Dad Beard Connoisseur
I've dealt with enough fighting games that don't have chip outs that I'm kind of sick of it. It brings the whole match to a screeching halt when the person with one pixel of life clams up and just...sits there and blocks. If they have great defense, the match goes on forever. There's no bloody consequence for them getting put in that situation. It's stupid. I think MK11 handles chip damage perfectly fine. It makes sense, you get two passes and then you're done.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Oh look, another state if the union thread. Another thread wanting to nerf a core game mechanic to suit a personal preference guised under the pretense of, "for the good of the game."

I've seen whole threads here, on Twitter, on Facebook wanting to nerf throws, uppercuts, wake up rolls, fatal blows, flawless blocking, and now last breath.

It's almost as if everyone is trying to take a game that plays nothing like what came before in NRS and mash it into an amalgamation of shit they're more comfortable with.

We all want the game to change for us, rather than adapting to it. It's especially tiring for me because while it has faults, none of them are this glaring, "we need to deal with this NOW" narrative that gets tossed around. As if we don't post our salty hot takes after five minutes of Ranked/Player matches, the Earth will implode or suddenly tournaments(that most hot take generators don't even go to) will what...stop happening?

It's tiring.

I'm tired.

I swear reading about these games used to be fun. Or maybe I'm just too old. I dunno.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
I see your point; however, other fighters that deal chip on attacks have no chip kills. Don't see why MK11 can't have it.
I understand. I just don’t see a reason to do it just because everyone else is doing it. But I know this is a very divisive topic and I doubt either side can be convinced to change their minds. Only the neutrals who don’t particularly care either way.
 
This idea greatly improves on the last breath option I fully agree with you. If you have the skill to flawless block the start of a string on last breath it should minimise chip like a norma flawless block would and then you have one last defensive metre of final breath left to work with and try to flawless block the next attack. I personally think this idea is genius and you should tweet it to them or something.